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Author Topic: Civilization: Beyond Earth  (Read 5642 times)

Lyn Farel

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #15 on: 27 Oct 2014, 03:50 »

Finished one playthrough and I loved it pretty much like I've loved every Civ game. Like with V they've stripped out the needlessly clunky and boring stuff to make way for more enjoyable gameplay. You'll always have the cranky people who'd rather get a reskin of SMAC than Civ5, but this one ticked all my spots as a more casual Civ player. IN SPACE.

Well, I'm not cranky firstly.

Secondly, what you consider clunky and boring, I consider deep and meaningful. But that's probably because i'm a big fan of Grand Strategy like Europa Universalis, etc. I expect to see in my 4X a certain level of depth and realistic stuff, and not skill trees with things to unlock to replace configurable and customizable things like interior policies, budgets, etc. I'm the first one to scream when those are needlessly complicated, as many things actually lose their fun essence when convolution starts to replace elegant simplicity, but here it's more about a casual thing vs old school thing I suppose.

I'm not using the casual words as derogatory. It's just a question of audience and to whom you cater your game. I just stated my personal taste on the matter, that's all.

Quest system made things interesting, giving both a bit of story flavor while also delivering a surprising amount of customizing of your buildings/economy.

The introduction of quests, which is taken directly from SMAC but actually made more pervasive and complex here, is a great addition. They also did that at the same time in Endless Legend, and if it's similar to the latter in Beyond Earth, then jackpot. It's a really good way to add storytelling elements and immersion to every game, and if done right, can bring very different flavour to each one. The rest is up to the player to make up his imaginary own fluff around it in his head, as usual.

The tech tree was initially a bit overwhelming but a few techs in it became quite comfortable and I frankly love that this time around it's not "Yeah, you can just research EVERYTHING. Doesn't really matter." but instead you can choose between affinities, or even go wide-spread and go for a Domination victory instead.

As I said above I understand the idea behind, I just don't like it. As a tech player I usually like to research all the things, and being barred from doing so (unless spreading all around for a domination victory as you say), is constraining in itself and bars me from one of the fundamentals of my playstyle.

More generally, I understand that the game forces you make choice, which is good in itself, but here it is at the expense of enjoying all the content. I like to enjoy all the technological content in my 4X games.

I can understand some like it better like that, but I don't. It's like telling a military player that the only way for him to win is to rush through a SINGLE enemy capital and that's it. Here it's kind of similar to my eyes : if I want a scientific victory, I have to rush through a narrow tech path and voila.

 
The Virtues system is really nifty as it rewards both going deep or wide with different bonuses to the specific subjects or synergy bonuses if you spread them around.

I have less gripes with the virtues in themselves. As much as I have seen how they work and what they bring (not much different from the doctrines from civ 5, just less linear), how many of them can you unlock in one playthrough ? A quarter ? Half ? 90%? All of them ?

Not saying that all of them should be unlockable in one go, just curious about it.

 
I would also recommend actually playing it before naysaying on the "tiny bonuses" of the factions, because they really do have an impact. It's quite significant to have for instance a much higher work speed for workers, or better spy system etc etc. 

When you have played SMAC, GalCiv or Amplitude games, I can assure you that those bonuses are ridiculously insignificant...

 
Love the art myself. It's pretty much exactly how Civ in Space would look. Harmony tech looks like biotech, etc. The augmentation guys go nicely "cyborgy" etc.

Harmony tech to me looks like Chtulhuh in space honestly, and Purity looks like mechwarrior, but to each his tastes I guess. I just find their Art Direction completely grotesque. You even have a master chief skin for your marines at some point.

As for the terrain in itself, as a levelbuilder myself, I find it ugly, especially the colours that are disharmonious and displeasing to the eye. Maybe that's what they wanted after all, but there is a huge difference between something unaesthetical/alien IRL and the way to picture it. vOv

Civ5 also has the benefit of two expansions and fuck knows how many minor DLCs. If gameplay videos and the theme doesn't suck you in as it did me, I'd probably recommend just sticking with Civ5 for now, until Beyond Earth gets an expansion or two. Me? I'll be playing the singleplayer at least twice more which should lead to 20-30 hours, before I take another Civ break, which is about my usual Civ cycle.

Expansions in the latter civ titles are actually something that piss me off to no bound. That's just content for which they make you pay the price of a full game everytime.
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Gwen Ikiryo

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #16 on: 27 Oct 2014, 04:23 »

I've not been enjoying it that much. Not because I don't like the core gameplay or aesthetic, but just because the AI is as dumb as a brick. It doesn't have any idea what to do with the tech web and so almost never beats you to a wonder or poses a great military threat, and will accept completely terrible deals when trading. I managed to get the Slavic Federation to, in exchange for 10 science for 90 turns, give me enough energy to just buy science buildings equal to 12 per turn, forever. And some titanium on top of that!

This still happens on the higher difficulties, as well - They just cheat more to make up for it.
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Anja Suorsa

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #17 on: 27 Oct 2014, 04:35 »

There was something that felt off with Civ V for me that I never could put my finger on and Civ BE hasn't done anything to fix it. I can roll with the Sci-fi flavour for a while but the game isn't anything special and I doubt I'll get many hours out of it before it bores me to tears.
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Kala

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #18 on: 27 Oct 2014, 04:37 »

Quote
This is not Alpha Centauri 2. It isn't trying to be. It never will be.
This is Civ, in space. More to the point, Civ5 in space.

If you liked Civ5 and like sci-fi, you'll probably like this, but it's not Alpha Centauri.

But...but...

I thought Alpha Centauri was Civ in space?

Though I think I see what you're saying  :)  When there was a Colonization add on (for Civ 4 I think?) I was like WOO YES OH BABY because I thought it was gonna be, well, like an updated Colonization.  It kind of wasn't. 

...I just got Colonization on good old games instead, because I am (sometimes) one of those cranky gamers  ;)

(I genuinely enjoyed the modern take on UFO, and I think that also does the 'stripping away for entertainment' type thing you reference; far more stream-lined and intuitive, but I have to admit I'm enjoying the clunky retro Xenonauts more - if enjoying is the right word, anyway  :evil:  Sometimes I wonder if it's less I'm a bitter vet of EVE, and more gaming in general ^^)
« Last Edit: 27 Oct 2014, 04:41 by Kala »
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #19 on: 27 Oct 2014, 04:40 »

While with SMAC they certainly used a lot of fundamental core mechanisms of civ (cities, tiles, terrain, unit movement), it really was trying to be something else, different. Everything else is different.

Beyond Earth never claimed to do that, they specifically called for a civ in space.

I've not been enjoying it that much. Not because I don't like the core gameplay or aesthetic, but just because the AI is as dumb as a brick. It doesn't have any idea what to do with the tech web and so almost never beats you to a wonder or poses a great military threat, and will accept completely terrible deals when trading. I managed to get the Slavic Federation to, in exchange for 10 science for 90 turns, give me enough energy to just buy science buildings equal to 12 per turn, forever. And some titanium on top of that!

This still happens on the higher difficulties, as well - They just cheat more to make up for it.

Mh yes, that's one of the recurring flaws of a lot of 4X games. Though generally in other Civ titles the AI still manages to do something and actually tries stuff, even if not very well... In Beyond Earth I have indeed read many complains that the AI is just passive. Same in Endless, where strategically and development wise it's quite good, tactically and diplomatically it's just utterly passive and as stupid as a fedo.

And it's insulting the fedo.

Though if the AI is not faring good with the tech tree itself, it's rather... scary tbh.
« Last Edit: 27 Oct 2014, 04:46 by Lyn Farel »
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Kala

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #20 on: 27 Oct 2014, 04:47 »

I honestly thought that was just what it was, at the time.  :s 
Kind of a deliberate follow on where you get space travel in Civ, then just doing it with a sci-fi theme.

But I'm quite happy to admit wrongness  :P  I only played it briefly and didn't like it much tbh >.>
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #21 on: 27 Oct 2014, 18:07 »

I'm never a fan of games choosing accessibility over depth, and it seems civV/BE leans towards the former.

Different strokes for different folks.  I think CIV V is the "Sims" of 4x games though, the one more tuned to the mobile market. Not everyone wants to sit down for 35 hours to play one game of multiplayer though, so they have a huge paying market.

I remember they did a CIV port to the Xbox 360 and I got super frustrated with how stripped down it was when trying to play w my friends online
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Mizhara

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #22 on: 27 Oct 2014, 18:53 »

I don't think it's fair to equate streamlined with lacking depth. Overly convoluted and complex systems are just as easily a sign of bad UI design as it is a sign of any depth. Civ5/BE aren't as deep as SMAC etc, but I'd hardly call it overly simple either. There's just the option of playing a superficial game if that's what tickles your fancy and that's what I enjoy.
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Jace

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #23 on: 27 Oct 2014, 21:44 »

I thoroughly regret starting this thread.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #24 on: 27 Oct 2014, 21:51 »

Played it, loved it. Epic music, great gameplay, AI is a bit meh, could use a bit more aggression, why does no one declare war on me when I start charging up the mindflower?

Its definitely got a bit of vanilla blues to it, but its an awesome foundation. The only real criticism I would make is that the colour palate is bit monotoned. Everything is shades of blue and green and it makes it a bit tricky to tell what everything is, where there is miasma and where there isn't, but overall I definitely reccomend. If you liked Civ 5, you'll definitely enjoy this. I already like it better then Civ5 in many ways, though I would like if they added Religion back in so I can create the fremen and dominate Dune.
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Jace

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #25 on: 27 Oct 2014, 21:57 »

Played it, loved it. Epic music, great gameplay, AI is a bit meh, could use a bit more aggression, why does no one declare war on me when I start charging up the mindflower?

Its definitely got a bit of vanilla blues to it, but its an awesome foundation. The only real criticism I would make is that the colour palate is bit monotoned. Everything is shades of blue and green and it makes it a bit tricky to tell what everything is, where there is miasma and where there isn't, but overall I definitely reccomend. If you liked Civ 5, you'll definitely enjoy this. I already like it better then Civ5 in many ways, though I would like if they added Religion back in so I can create the fremen and dominate Dune.

"Vanilla blues" is a great way to describe most of the impressions I've had from other Civ 5 friends. Enjoyed it, but can't wait to see how the AI is changed and additional features added - much like it was with Civ 5.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #26 on: 27 Oct 2014, 22:01 »

Yeah like, the factions are good, but seeing the same factions in every game gets a bit old. Just gotta wait for more to come out though.
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Jace

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #27 on: 27 Oct 2014, 22:04 »

Yeah like, the factions are good, but seeing the same factions in every game gets a bit old. Just gotta wait for more to come out though.

The improvement of Civ 5 after the expansions and AI patches was astronomic. They really do respond to reasonable fan criticism.
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Silas Vitalia

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Vikarion

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #29 on: 21 Nov 2014, 16:22 »

Well, I've been playing BE for the past couple of weeks, and, honestly, found it a bit addicting. The necessity of prioritizing research options and making exclusive choices in your build gives it a lot of replay value.

I wish they'd make it a bit harder to grab a bit of everything, though. It's relatively easy to wind up with 16 of one and 9 or so of the other affinity choices, thus giving you all you really care about.
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