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[Publius Valerius]

It's the latter. 13.7 trillion Caldari total in the State, Federation, and Empire (there's probably some in the Republic too, so probably more than 13.7t). 5.2 trillion are abroad (in the Fed and Empire at least).

I was leaning towards that, but it's still not clarified for me.

Also, in terms of realpolitik the sheer scale of the Imperial population and its territorial size combined with its traditional foreign policies is probably enough to make every other faction in New Eden very wary about them.

More weird is that I had long ago a discussion about the population of planets: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=64529&p=3

Lets see again: Free 21.449 Trillions (51%).... Slaves 20.607,862 (49%) lets round down to 20.607 Trillions (49%), which gives a total of 42.056 trillions by ~673 temperate planets. Which would give us 62,49 Billions per temperate planet. 

Do you mean 35.744 Billion per temperate planet? That does seem high, but I don't think every one lives on temperate planets. Even then, I think the Gallente at least are hinted at having environmental technology that could keep a biosphere inhabited even with tens of billions of people. Then there's the fact that the technology in Eve probably allows for habitation in many ways: Massive megacities of interlinked, towering arcologies; subterranean geo-fronts; under water enclaves; stratospheric structures; orbital elevators; or low-orbit facilities.

Yeah I had a typo... 24 was 42 and yes...billions. But still I think 62,49 Billions per temperate planet is alittle high (even if we take barren worlds, oceanic worlds, stations, etc into account.... you would still land around  ~20-30 billions for EVERY temperate world..). Is a bit much for me, but nevermind. Maybe the book will tell more, I heard that it mention praying by zero gravity.    I think Torfi mention it ones by a youtube vid. So I dont mind the numbers, I was just curious.... So dont see it as critique.

As I mention ones on another place before, I have just get into more the space opera mood. :

[V. Gesakaarin]

Yeah I had a typo... 24 was 42 and yes...billions. But still I think 62,49 Billions per temperate planet is alittle high (even if we take barren worlds, oceanic worlds, stations, etc into account.... you would still land around  ~20-30 billions for EVERY temperate world..). Is a bit much for me, but nevermind. Maybe the book will tell more, I heard that it mention praying by zero gravity.    I think Torfi mention it ones by a youtube vid. So I dont mind the numbers, I was just curious.... So dont see it as critique.

As I mention ones on another place before, I have just get into more the space opera mood. :

I think it makes things interesting. I can just imagine modern Athra covered in sprawling continent sized cities of towering golden cathedral towers hundreds of metres high, full of the vibrancy and life of Imperial culture in a planetary scale urban domain.

[Seriphyn]

I can't help but feel this is the elephant in the room, but for those who have it, could we get the Minmatar and Gallente figures too?

[Publius Valerius]

Also, Falcon confirmed that the State has the smallest population of the 4 empires.

Additionally, while it's not listed in the book, Falcon told me that 49% of people in the Empire are slaves.

Ehm those two things got me thinking. As the wiki mention that 40% of the cluster is the empire.[1] So I think, Falcons slave number is a little off. As I could think of that around 40% of the cluster living in the empire. Which means by given 25%[2], that around ~15% of the cluster are slaves in the empire. Which mean a 15/25 ratio, or 0.6. Which means by given 21.449 trillions, that empire has 12,869 trillion slaves.

Of those 12.869 trillion are 10.712 trillion minmatar (see source book).****
As for the Empire it would mean that it has a total of 34.318 trillions.


Now we have also have the information that the 21.449 trillions are 29% of the empire factions. Which would mean that around 73.962 trillions live in the empire factions. Now we have also the information on the wiki about the ratio towards the total population of the cluster. As mention a page before:

Amarr Empire = *Free 25% on the wiki.
Caldari State =  = *10% on the wiki.
Gallente Fed = *20% on the wiki.


_____________
Adapt ratio. From cluster to empire space:
Now we just need to adapt the ration. We have already the given 29% (for the empire population) and the 25% cluster population of the Amarr Empire, which gives us a ratio of: 29/25=1.16 Now we can take this ratio and use it on the other two empire which we have numbers for. Caldari State= 10*1.16=11.6 ~11.6%. Gallente Fed= 20*1.16=23.2 ~23.2%.

So now we have almost all. Let us just add for given 73.962 trillions:
Amarr Empire = 29% + 17.4% = 46.4% = 12.869 trillion + 10.712 trillion = 34.318 trillions
Caldari State = 11.6% = 8.579592 trillions
Gallente Federation = 23.2% = 17.159184 trillions
Which gives us a total of 60,056776 for the cluster without the "rest"/"others". Which means 73.962-60.056776 would us give the "rest"/"others" population = 13,905224 =Republic, Mandate, Kingdom, InterBus, CONCORD.


_____________
Minmatar population:

(1) Now we also know that 1/3 of the Gallente Fed are Minmatar,* which are 1/5 of the total minmatar.* Fed population/3=17.159184/3 = 5.719728. Which would give us a total of 5.719728*5 = 28.59864 minmatars.

(2) Second way would be to take the free and enlave numbers of the source book and add them together; as the empire as 1/3 of the minmatar population. (214.491 billion + 10.712 trillion)*3 = 10.926491=32.779473

So we can say that in the cluster has around ~30 trillions minmatar. In between 28.599 trillions and 32.779 trillions.

1/4 of this 30 trillions life in the Republic. Which means ~7.5 trillions. Which puts the Republic below the State. As the wiki also mention, that the State is "second least populous entity out of the four major empires".* So I think Falcon was wrong. I guess the State has around 8.6 trillions and the Republic so 7.5 trillions.


_____________
Other Factions:

If we now go back to the other factions. We can guess how many live in their as well. By given  "rest" population of 13.905224. 13.905224 - 7.5 trillions = 6.405224. I would guess that the major junk, are Mandate and Kingdom, as the InterBus and CONCORD are just organizations (I dont know if you can be even "legal" InterBus citizen or CONCORD.). I would guess that the Mandate is maybe a little bigger as the Kingdom (as it has more space). So my guess out of thin air: Mandate = 3.305224 trillions and the Kingdom 3.1 trillions.


_____________
off topic. Just for the beauty of numbers  ....the system numbers.
As for systems we have 1907 Empire systems:

Amarr=702 (36.8%)
Ammatar Mandate=118 (6.2%)
Caldari=326 (17.1%)
CONCORD=8 (0.4%)
Gallente=388 (20.3%)
InterBus=1 (0.1%)
Khanid Kingdom=84 (4.4%)
Minmatar=280 (14.9%)



_____________
_____________
Summerary:

Amarr = 702 systems (36.8%) = 34.318 (46.4%) = 48.886 population per system
Ammatar Mandate =118 systems (6.2%) = 3.305224 (4.5%) = 28.010 population per system
Caldari = 326 systems (17.1%) = 8.579592 (11.6%) = 26.318 population per system
CONCORD = 8 systems (0.4%) = (0%) = 0 population per system
Gallente = 388 systems (20.3%) = 17.159184 (23.2%) = 44.228 population per system
InterBus = 1 (0.1%) = (0%) = 0 population per system
Khanid Kingdom = 84 systems (4.4%) = 3.1 (4.2%) = 36.904 population per system
Minmatar = 280 systems (14.9%) = 7.5 (10,1%) = 26.786 population per system
_____________
Total:
1907 systems, 73.962 trillions, 38.784 population per system (in billions)





_____________
Edit: ****The Empire has 12.869 trillion slaves and 10.712 trillion are minmatar slaves. Which would mean that 83.2% of the slave would be minmatar. On the wiki is it 50-75%[*]. This is a problwm which can be easly fix. We have the total of ~30 trillions minmatar. Now let us get back again. 30/3=10 trillions minmatar which live in the empire, minus the free would make 9,785509 trillions. Which would be then 76.03%. Way closer to the wiki, if we enlarge the number of free minmatar the slave number would drop even further.

Edit 2: We can even guess the population of the whole cluster. By given 73.962 trillions * the ratio of empire to cluster = 73.962 * 1.16 = 85.795,92 trillions. Which would mean that 11.833,92 trillions would live outside of the empire space. A reasonable number, If we think about it. Then 0.0 is for most people nothing more as Haiti or Somalia in our world. A world in chaos, which has a fast secession of states and/or governments. And the Youtube: Eve-Online Influence Map 2007 to 2013 shows the latter point brilliantly, every come and go of a color is more or less a failed state.

Edit 3: Added population per system.

[Publius Valerius]

I think 34.318 (46.4% of the empire factions) is a more reasonable number. I just think Falcon has mix up some stuff.


__________
Population per planet:
As for systems we have 1907 Empire systems and the Amarr Empire has 702. Which gives us 36.8% or 0,3681174619821709


As for the planets:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planet#Distribution_of_planet_types

Planet (Temperate) 1115+714 = 1829
Planet (Oceanic) 423+320 = 743
Planet (Barren) 2920+2044 = 4964

Which gives us for the Amarr Empire:
Planet (Temperate) 1829*0,3681174619821709 = 673,2868379653906
Planet (Oceanic) 743*0,3681174619821709 = 273,511274252753
Planet (Barren) 4964*0,3681174619821709 = 1827,335081279496

So the Empire as around 2774 planets.... Which means by given 34.318 trillion:
11.289,834 billions per planets.


So V. Gesakaarin was right... It doesnt look so big. As for me I never thought that New Eden has so many barren worlds. 2,7 times as much as temperate....   That was one of my errors before.

Yeah I had a typo... 24 was 42 and yes...billions. But still I think 62,49 Billions per temperate planet is alittle high (even if we take barren worlds, oceanic worlds, stations, etc into account.... you would still land around  ~20-30 billions for EVERY temperate world..). Is a bit much for me, but nevermind. Maybe the book will tell more, I heard that it mention praying by zero gravity.    I think Torfi mention it ones by a youtube vid. So I dont mind the numbers, I was just curious.... So dont see it as critique.

As I mention ones on another place before, I have just get into more the space opera mood. :

I think it makes things interesting. I can just imagine modern Athra covered in sprawling continent sized cities of towering golden cathedral towers hundreds of metres high, full of the vibrancy and life of Imperial culture in a planetary scale urban domain.

Yeah.  As well as the underwater cities.... In the "day of darkness II" vid  had they made one.... Just beautiful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGJHjKUvHlk

[Jace]

Woot, mine finally came today. Queue rageposts in 10...9...8...

[Publius Valerius]

Woot, mine finally came today. Queue rageposts in 10...9...8...

My will come around the 28 march. I had just order yesterday. 


How is it? I mean the art work looked great. As well as I have to agree, on one post in the other threat, that the preview show that 90% are more or less the same. So maybe you can give us some spoilers.    I dont mind some spoilers. Things you liked and and stuff what you dont liked?

[Jace]

Woot, mine finally came today. Queue rageposts in 10...9...8...

My will come around the 28 march. I had just order yesterday. 


How is it? I mean the art work looked great. As well as I have to agree, on one post in the other threat, that the preview show that 90% are more or less the same. So maybe you can give us some spoilers.    I dont mind some spoilers. Things you liked and and stuff what you dont liked?

Currently reading bits and pieces when I take a break from schoolwork. I'll sit down and read it cover to cover tonight and give my initial thoughts - since this is me, most of them will probably be Caldari-related. My favorite part so far is the introduction where it clearly states that Source is a depiction of the "world as it is". Backs up Falcon's comments about Source being the definitive PF. Regardless of whether things in it upset people, it will be useful to have a definitive PF source.

[PracticalTechnicality]

I will be doing likewise tonight, Jace.  It will be interesting to see where we are similar or different in our opinions on specific topics. 

[Jace]

I'm not going to have time to read everything tonight like I had planned, but I will definitely post my Caldari thoughts when I have the time. I've already noticed some significant emphasis and possible retcons.

Edit: First Thought: They are not backing away from the neofascist feel. It is looking unlikely that it can be as attributed to Heth as some are wont to do. That'll be all I have until I finish some papers.

[Publius Valerius]

Woot, mine finally came today. Queue rageposts in 10...9...8...

My will come around the 28 march. I had just order yesterday. 


How is it? I mean the art work looked great. As well as I have to agree, on one post in the other threat, that the preview show that 90% are more or less the same. So maybe you can give us some spoilers.    I dont mind some spoilers. Things you liked and and stuff what you dont liked?

Currently reading bits and pieces when I take a break from schoolwork. I'll sit down and read it cover to cover tonight and give my initial thoughts - since this is me, most of them will probably be Caldari-related. My favorite part so far is the introduction where it clearly states that Source is a depiction of the "world as it is". Backs up Falcon's comments about Source being the definitive PF. Regardless of whether things in it upset people, it will be useful to have a definitive PF source.

I have no problem with Caldari-related topics. As former Kingdom RPler I saw myself with one foot in the Empire and one in the State. So I dont mind if you focus on them.....

I will be doing likewise tonight, Jace.  It will be interesting to see where we are similar or different in our opinions on specific topics.

Would be great to hear... So dont let me wait

By the way it would be great if there is a Kingdom page; and if there is "new" stuff, if you people could give a feedback. As I said I dont mind spoilers.

I can't help but feel this is the elephant in the room, but for those who have it, could we get the Minmatar and Gallente figures too?

You mean with "elephant in the room", that the Empire is so large and/or has a large average planet population? Yeah, I thought this too. But you know space magic.

I'm not going to have time to read everything tonight like I had planned, but I will definitely post my Caldari thoughts when I have the time. I've already noticed some significant emphasis and possible retcons.

Edit: First Thought: They are not backing away from the neofascist feel. It is looking unlikely that it can be as attributed to Heth as some are wont to do. That'll be all I have until I finish some papers.

As for me, I dont mind Neo-Fascist, even if I have no clue what this is.

I had in the short time I was back a great discussion with guy in the OOC chat ingame. More or less about this topic: Hypers-stylize version of things we know vs. realism. I think in the end he was right. I think all factions will be more a ultra-hyper-stylize/fantasy version of something in this world (Which of course could never exist.) In other words: State = ultra-hyper-stylize/fantasy version of an corporate America/andorJapan/andorFinnland/andorGermany.

Let me explain what I mean with it. If you look in the internet... most of all on youtube. You will find most of the time bad real world comparison. Good example is [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK0gF17RVio]here[/url]. So if CCP had choose to hyper-stylize factions, I havent a problem with, because it make those factions easier accessible for a wider audience. Sometimes you have to dumb down things. This was one of the major critique points I got from him about my Kingdom stuff. And I think he was right. The error was me and my style, thats the reason I got almost none feedback in the OOC channel when I asked.

Here I have to say... It isnt about if the State is the hypers-stylize/fantasy version of an corporate America.*** It is more about that the State is a hypers-stylize/fantasy version of something WE KNOW. This is a point which gets interest, feedback, and toyed around; not the boring shit I write. The sad things is people like the SAME shit just in different flavors. McDonald and Burger King, the same shit just different flavor. And I think this will be the case with all the stuff. Example: Empire will be a hypers-stylize/fantasy version of an confederate America*** The Fed a bad hypers-stylize/fantasy version of an "liberal-supranational-NAFTA-EU-ish" America*** (where the member states are US, Canada, Bahmas etc... and the colonies are Puerto Rico, Virgins, Bermudas, etc...)... And I have here say again... This isnt because of 1/3 of the players are from north America. It is because PEOPLE LIKE SHIT WHAT THEY KNOW, everywhere in the world (every nation, race, gender, etc...). It is like I said just the same with slightly different flavor. So I dont mind CCP doing this, as I think it will bring more people into our table. As hypers-stylize/fantasy version of something WE KNOW is more interesting (as for example my shit).

As I mention here: "By the way: Those anyone know when the immersion projects comes ingame? I mean it would be a nice and easy addition and would make our little round table (Publius waves to all earlier comments in this thread) bigger."

As I mention in the quote above, I welcome stuff which makes our roundtable bigger. So I dont mind CCP going this way. As the major part of the entertainment industry is ALREADY there: Aka. Revamping old stuff (stuff what WE KNOW) and make it more accessible for a wider audience. Thats is one of the reason we see so many re-bots, squeals, prequels, etc... As they have a high name recognition, therefore is more less SHIT WHAT WE KNOW OR EVEN SAW and they need just to revamp/stylize/fantasy it in a way so that it does not loss this connection. This is the key today for making a butt-load of money (and laugh all the way to the bank).

I know it sounds more negative, then positive, but in the end: The needs justifies those choices. As the CCP lore/live event team needs resources (money, man power). And the old evelopedia project was a fail, as well as my pages; as it in true spark almost no interest or feedback after a week or so. Aka. sparked no money. So as I said: I know it sounds more negative, then positive. But it is truelly meant positive. As I hope it will help CCP and the RP community in the end.

Now to some feedback...


___________

***Which hasnt exist, Which could not exist, and Will most likely never exist. As well as you can easily change the nation/race/gender/what ever/I dont care ....

[Shiki]

Mine arrived, cat is already marking it as hers though. 

A lot of the planetside concept artworks have me hrrnng-ing. Might scan some stuff for signatures.

[Jace]

*snip*

You'll be excited. They totally changed the name of Caille.

[Vieve]

*snip*

You'll be excited. They totally changed the name of Caille.

And rouge drones are now not only canon, but an important part of the FIO's intelligence gathering network.

[Shiki]

Mods gonna mod.