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[Nicoletta Mithra]

Karsoth being an undetected closet Sabik was CCP plot fail of the highest order IMO.



FW wise... open, card-carrying Sabiks are not a tolerated thing in Empire, under any circumstances.  But it's always been game mechanics fail that you can say "i hate the empire" and still fly for them.

The violence and destruction aimed at the Matari pales in comparison to how the Empire deals with internal heretics.

+1

[Silas Vitalia]

Karsoth being an undetected closet Sabik was CCP plot fail of the highest order IMO.



FW wise... open, card-carrying Sabiks are not a tolerated thing in Empire, under any circumstances.  But it's always been game mechanics fail that you can say "i hate the empire" and still fly for them.

The violence and destruction aimed at the Matari pales in comparison to how the Empire deals with internal heretics.

+1

Being closet Sabik in the Empire is a constant, just out of reach death sentence for you and your entire extended family.  If your family spent 1500 years working up the ladder as secret "Black Nobility" types, I don't expect anything like the Karsoth plot fail going on very often.

Amarr Sabiks in power.....more like you'd meet once every few decades with masks on for 5 minutes and vanish for another few decades.  "Everything cool?" "Yes" "Ok see you in 50 years, proceed."

I imagine similar to the "Death Eaters" in Harry Potter in some ways?

[Jikahr]

Karsoth being an undetected closet Sabik was CCP plot fail of the highest order IMO.



FW wise... open, card-carrying Sabiks are not a tolerated thing in Empire, under any circumstances.  But it's always been game mechanics fail that you can say "i hate the empire" and still fly for them.

The violence and destruction aimed at the Matari pales in comparison to how the Empire deals with internal heretics.

+1

Being closet Sabik in the Empire is a constant, just out of reach death sentence for you and your entire extended family.  If your family spent 1500 years working up the ladder as secret "Black Nobility" types, I don't expect anything like the Karsoth plot fail going on very often.

Amarr Sabiks in power.....more like you'd meet once every few decades with masks on for 5 minutes and vanish for another few decades.  "Everything cool?" "Yes" "Ok see you in 50 years, proceed."

I imagine similar to the "Death Eaters" in Harry Potter in some ways?

Could you compare this in any way to the RL Anti-Semitic propaganda of medieval Europe and persecution of the Jews by the Catholic church?

During the Spanish Inquisition, the Catholic church certainly tried very hard to weed out, stamp out, torture and convert as many Jews as they can, all in the name of their God. Understandably, the Jews often either fled for their lives or became 'Crypto-jews' (such as Nostradamus), keeping their identity a secret.

Despite 1,500 years of persecution and a small, landless population, the Jewish nation as a whole survived. Many Jews strategically make themselves indispensable to the Royal courts and society as a whole by becoming middle class professionals such as Doctors, Lawyers, scholars, etc.

Similarly, if Karsoth had somehow placed himself in an indispensable role (perhaps with help from Blood friends), he might have managed to allay suspicions and bypass security measures for a little while, anyways.

Consider this from the perspective of the 'Jewish world conspiracy' myth ala 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.

The Blood Raiders are trying to occupy key positions in order to control the Empire like a giant chessboard. It might just make Karsoth's deep infiltration of the Royal court story seem a little more plausible. (In an Illuminati New World Order James Bond super villain sort of way). Hypnosis, drugs, ancient technology, sorcery, who knows what tricks Karsoth might have had up his sleeve?

The myth about the Jewish 'Blood Libel', also somewhat ties into the religious use of Blood by the Sani Sabik, although perhaps that's not relevant.

Conversely, perhaps Karsoth called it as he saw it, denounced the heresy of a capsuleer of cloned flesh being an Empress, and the Empress simply had him framed up on a charge of Sani Sabik and executed him.

[Louella Dougans]

the thing about Karsoth is that...

In the Empire, a position such as the Court Chamberlain, there would be many, many people looking to gain that position, because of the opportunity to advance their House's interests - a Holder family with extensive shipyard holdings would gain from a new program of naval construction, as an example.

So, Karsoth would have been being spied upon, not just by any MIO agents or other Empire internal security, but also, by agents of all of the rivals for the position.

And none of them ever saw anything ?

[Silas Vitalia]

The Blood Raiders are trying to occupy key positions in order to control the Empire like a giant chessboard. It might just make Karsoth's deep infiltration of the Royal court story seem a little more plausible. (In an Illuminati New World Order James Bond super villain sort of way). Hypnosis, drugs, ancient technology, sorcery, who knows what tricks Karsoth might have had up his sleeve?

I very much imagine some amount of deep infiltration in the Empire's elite with some 'OG' Sabiks who have managed to keep affiliation under wraps for hundreds of years.

I just don't imagine it anywhere near looking like Karsoth was portrayed, with such open amounts of fail and outright barely hiding villianry that would have been found out immediately.

Also with that sort of thing its always the 3rd or 4th in command outside of the main spotlight that's actually pulling strings, not the person in the figurehead position (Karsoth). 


It's not there anymore, but one of the things that originally drew me to Amarr RP was very much that 'chessboard' feel; the idea that the Empire was not some monolithic FW entity, but a constantly changing quicksand (well not quicksand for amarr, more like, slowly moving sand for hundreds and hundreds of years) of political family dynasties and alliances, taking generations to plot and scheme and ruin each other socially and get their offspring into the right positions, with grudges lasting hundreds of years and matriarchs ruining entire families and solar systems because their niece was insulted at a ballroom dance by some Udorian upstart 300 years ago. 

[Arista Shahni]

A bit of Amrr RP can still be like that, but for the last many months, the Amarr chess-timer has been ticking, or at least, the current game is over with no clear winner.

That or both players have gotten up for a drink.

[Jikahr]

the thing about Karsoth is that...

In the Empire, a position such as the Court Chamberlain, there would be many, many people looking to gain that position, because of the opportunity to advance their House's interests - a Holder family with extensive shipyard holdings would gain from a new program of naval construction, as an example.

So, Karsoth would have been being spied upon, not just by any MIO agents or other Empire internal security, but also, by agents of all of the rivals for the position.

And none of them ever saw anything ?

Not to mention that we presently have the technology to put spy cameras and hidden microphones in every room, and we can even detect emotions on a brain scan. Imagine what they would have 8000 years from now.

I would imagine that since cloning technology works by scanning a picture of your mind and uploading it to a clone, the technology would probably also exist to be able to see what a person is thinking. They wouldn't even have to kill you, just look at the brain scan, notice what the person was thinking about and doing, and block the incoming signal to your replacement clone.

According to the PF, the Empress herself is apparently able to read everyone's mind, except in Genesis around the EVE gate. Would Karsoth believe that or not? Even if he didn't, why do the faithful still believe she can if she couldn't read the thoughts of someone in her proximity?

[Esna Pitoojee]

According to the PF, the Empress herself is apparently able to read everyone's mind, except in Genesis around the EVE gate. Would Karsoth believe that or not? Even if he didn't, why do the faithful still believe she can if she couldn't read the thoughts of someone in her proximity?

I'll just address this real fast - the reason behind this is explained a bit more in Templar One, and it's not just straight-up mind reading:

[spoiler]
Jamyl can "read minds" because she and certain close associates have had a sleeper implant something akin to the implants DUST soldiers use implanted in their brains. She's not so much "reading a mind" personally as she is using their implants to take a snapshot of their brain and selectively browsing it for information, or communicating via the implant's communication systems. It's very unlikely that Karsoth had such an implant, as if he did she would almost certainly have located and wiped him out in an instant.

It's still a bit of a logic fail that in a cast of characters who would be regularly checked by highly-trained physicians and doctors, nobody noticed that they had spontaneously grown an entire extra lobe in their brains - but it's better than straight-up ESP, in my opinion.
[/spoiler]

[Lyn Farel]

There is that kind of shit in the PF now ?

lol.

[Arista Shahni]

Somehow I knew you'd say that, Lyn.

:Twilight Xone Theme Here:

* Arista Shahni runs away!

[Lyn Farel]

huehuehueh

[Gaven Lok ri]

A bit of Amrr RP can still be like that, but for the last many months, the Amarr chess-timer has been ticking, or at least, the current game is over with no clear winner.

That or both players have gotten up for a drink.

I would say that it may be important to read the development and propagation of the image of a relatively monolithic Amarr bloc as a *long* series of moves on that chessboard.

Also, I still think Nauplius should start going apocalyptic. It would go well with the self proclaimed prophet thing. http://http-server.carleton.ca/~jopp/3850/3-3.htm is a decent model.

[Jace]

A bit of Amrr RP can still be like that, but for the last many months, the Amarr chess-timer has been ticking, or at least, the current game is over with no clear winner.

That or both players have gotten up for a drink.

I would say that it may be important to read the development and propagation of the image of a relatively monolithic Amarr bloc as a *long* series of moves on that chessboard.

Oh snap.

[Lunarisse Aspenstar]

A bit of Amrr RP can still be like that, but for the last many months, the Amarr chess-timer has been ticking, or at least, the current game is over with no clear winner.

That or both players have gotten up for a drink.

I would say that it may be important to read the development and propagation of the image of a relatively monolithic Amarr bloc as a *long* series of moves on that chessboard.

Also, I still think Nauplius should start going apocalyptic. It would go well with the self proclaimed prophet thing. http://http-server.carleton.ca/~jopp/3850/3-3.htm is a decent model.

In all honesty I think both Samira and Luna were afraid he'd try something Wagnerian (like a smart bombing battleship or using his purifier) after his 2nd temple went down and Samira moved to the hangars.  That didn't materialize but it was a definite concern.

[Nauplius]

Also, I still think Nauplius should start going apocalyptic. It would go well with the self proclaimed prophet thing. http://http-server.carleton.ca/~jopp/3850/3-3.htm is a decent model.

Apocalyptic is an option.  Thing is, the advantage of the stuff I've been doing, the slave sacrifices, is that there's an in game trade good (Slaves) and a variety of containers to blow them up in (ships, freight containers, anchorables).  Taking Nauplius in a different direction probably means less support from game mechanics versus slave-related content.