Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nmaro Makari]

Tibus Heth and his Caldari State is nothing but a bad copy/paste from the history books, added with mild sci-fi coating. It seems Source is only enforcing this stereotype.

Which again sounds they aren't even trying anymore and have the lazy on them - or this is all still TonyG era crap that just needs to be filtered out before new stuff is written.

The EVE Source, from my cursory reading, is distinct and different from TonyG, BUT some stuff appears to carry over, with a few additional details and links to current events.

The base message is that the TonyG stuff is permanently written-in. While there might be changes as the story progresses, it will remain and there will be no hasty burial, retcon, or edit. But, it seems that it will be going in a different direction. What is not clear is where specifically.

MUCH EDIT: Anyone else with EVE source, please do double check and correct me if needs be. Like I said, still just on the skim-read right now.

[V. Gesakaarin]

Well the concept of economic strain causing an embrace of nationalism and blame the foreigners seemed sound to me with the Caldari. I can just look at today, and the increase of popularity of political parties based on, "anti-immigrant" policies in Europe following the GFC for example to see that it's a trend not just isolated to the history books. I just think the execution with Heth was poor, driven by unrealistic plot magic, and the character itself was just a laughable stereotype of, "I hate all Gallenteans just because," type jingoism.  Even given the past history of the Gallente-Caldari, it still came off as absurd to me as Americans somehow spontaneously saying, "Remember the war of 1812!" and then proceeding to roll across the Canadian border to annex Quebec because damn those Frenchies.

I rolled with it once because hey, whatever, the PF is PF and I can make almost anything work with what I'm given by CCP, but right now I'm happy to push anything most things regarding State RP away with a ten-foot pole along with the majority of its adherents. Because I've already come to the conclusion that while I've tried to just use whatever I'm given by CCP regarding the State and rolling with it there's just too much Caldari fanboyism with the faction in my eyes. I went Caldari because I thought corporate cyberpunk is sexy, and instead all I got was inconsistency from CCP and a whole lot of whining from Caldari players who seem to spend most of their time being too emotionally crippled to accept when their special little vision of Caldari isn't supported.

I mean damn, you've just got to sometimes put the OOC opinions of Caldari players side-by-side with the IC opinions of the characters they play and it's hilarious how close they tend to be. Some people have told me I've been trolling the past few months, but I've sometimes wondered if it's really trolling to have meta-gamed people who appear to me to want to be Caldari in real life, because I think it's tragic not being able to separate OOC and IC with your RP.

[Nmaro Makari]

Well the concept of economic strain causing an embrace of nationalism and blame the foreigners seemed sound to me with the Caldari. I can just look at today, and the increase of popularity of political parties based on, "anti-immigrant" policies in Europe following the GFC for example to see that it's a trend not just isolated to the history books. I just think the execution with Heth was poor, driven by unrealistic plot magic, and the character itself was just a laughable stereotype of, "I hate all Gallenteans just because," type jingoism.  Even given the past history of the Gallente-Caldari, it still came off as absurd to me as Americans somehow spontaneously saying, "Remember the war of 1812!" and then proceeding to roll across the Canadian border to annex Quebec because damn those Frenchies.

I rolled with it once because hey, whatever, the PF is PF and I can make almost anything work with what I'm given by CCP, but right now I'm happy to push anything most things regarding State RP away with a ten-foot pole along with the majority of its adherents. Because I've already come to the conclusion that while I've tried to just use whatever I'm given by CCP regarding the State and rolling with it there's just too much Caldari fanboyism with the faction in my eyes. I went Caldari because I thought corporate cyberpunk is sexy, and instead all I got was inconsistency from CCP and a whole lot of whining from Caldari players who seem to spend most of their time being too emotionally crippled to accept when their special little vision of Caldari isn't supported.

I mean damn, you've just got to sometimes put the OOC opinions of Caldari players side-by-side with the IC opinions of the characters they play and it's hilarious how close they tend to be. Some people have told me I've been trolling the past few months, but I've sometimes wondered if it's really trolling to have meta-gamed people who appear to me to want to be Caldari in real life, because I think it's tragic not being able to separate OOC and IC with your RP.

I'd say present-day Ukraine, while not very similar, is probably a better place for an analogy than Quebec.

[Vincent Pryce]

Dystopian corporate intrigue was indeed cool while it lasted. Hopefully we will eventually start seeing more of that again.

The rise of dystopian national socialist state is edgy dark storytelling and it has lots potential, but it would've been nice to not have a bad copypaste of history with a bad deus ex machina to make it happen. Instead of putting some effort into unique interesting reasons and characters . They went for the easy way out, that's my main gripe with it.

To a degree I can understand the everlasting annoyance of the hardcore caldari fancore as well. The change from dystopian corporate cyberpunk to dystopian national socialist state wasn't gradual, it was pretty much a flip of the switch. Especially considering how slow EVE lore used to develop, and how subtle it used to be. "Oh you wanted to play shady corporate dealings and hostile takeovers for Arasaka to take over Kendachi. Nope! You're now playing Spaceballs the dystopian state!"

I mean we get it CCP, you wanted to portray Heth as spacehitler but did really have to give him spaceparkinsons too so that we wouldn't just accidentally run away with our imagination and pretend he is something more than just a really bad cardboard cutout of a historical figure. So much wasted storytelling potential :/ Then again I could just wear my Zerofucksgiven hat and go with "if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing." 

Anyhow, maybe they will manage to fix it make it interesting again. I mean, looks like they've almost managed to unfuck the Minmatar from what I'e seen and heard of recent story droplets (I am reserving my judgement until I read the book). Would be cool if they'd find a nice balance of corporate intrigue and national socialist state. That remains to be seen.

[Elmund Egivand]

Dystopian corporate intrigue was indeed cool while it lasted. Hopefully we will eventually start seeing more of that again.

The rise of dystopian national socialist state is edgy dark storytelling and it has lots potential, but it would've been nice to not have a bad copypaste of history with a bad deus ex machina to make it happen. Instead of putting some effort into unique interesting reasons and characters . They went for the easy way out, that's my main gripe with it.

To a degree I can understand the everlasting annoyance of the hardcore caldari fancore as well. The change from dystopian corporate cyberpunk to dystopian national socialist state wasn't gradual, it was pretty much a flip of the switch. Especially considering how slow EVE lore used to develop, and how subtle it used to be. "Oh you wanted to play shady corporate dealings and hostile takeovers for Arasaka to take over Kendachi. Nope! You're now playing Spaceballs the dystopian state!"

I mean we get it CCP, you wanted to portray Heth as spacehitler but did really have to give him spaceparkinsons too so that we wouldn't just accidentally run away with our imagination and pretend he is something more than just a really bad cardboard cutout of a historical figure. So much wasted storytelling potential :/ Then again I could just wear my Zerofucksgiven hat and go with "if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing." 

Anyhow, maybe they will manage to fix it make it interesting again. I mean, looks like they've almost managed to unfuck the Minmatar from what I'e seen and heard of recent story droplets (I am reserving my judgement until I read the book). Would be cool if they'd find a nice balance of corporate intrigue and national socialist state. That remains to be seen.

Yeah, they did improve Minmatar. Parliament becoming the Executors for the Tribal leaders of the Assembly, Minmatar regaining their pride and identity, an exodus of free Matari back into the Republic, etc etc. Not much mentioned about social works though or maybe I just need to reread Source again.

Still, my character will still have reservations about becoming full time Republic citizen again. Paranoia of a frontiersman, you know?

[Lyn Farel]

Anyhow, maybe they will manage to fix it make it interesting again. I mean, looks like they've almost managed to unfuck the Minmatar from what I'e seen and heard of recent story droplets (I am reserving my judgement until I read the book). Would be cool if they'd find a nice balance of corporate intrigue and national socialist state. That remains to be seen.

Actually they killed Midular and made the Republic go Leroyy on a Moros fleet at point blank range in Colelie because those froth at the mouth savage Minmatar couldn't have it their way.

[Elmund Egivand]

Anyhow, maybe they will manage to fix it make it interesting again. I mean, looks like they've almost managed to unfuck the Minmatar from what I'e seen and heard of recent story droplets (I am reserving my judgement until I read the book). Would be cool if they'd find a nice balance of corporate intrigue and national socialist state. That remains to be seen.

Actually they killed Midular and made the Republic go Leroyy on a Moros fleet at point blank range in Colelie because those froth at the mouth savage Minmatar couldn't have it their way.

You mean the extreme militant faction within the Republic military.

And point blank a Moros fleet is just goshdang stupid. At least that was acknowledged in Source.

[Desiderya]

[...]It would've been nice to not have a bad copypaste of history with a bad deus ex machina to make it happen. [...]

The most amazing detail of TEA, by the way. The unholy attack on CONCORD had to happen so that the strike force was able to breach Fed space without getting totally CONCORDed because it was against space laws to change the borders, etc, etc, yet the Fed still had an amazing border security system (that totally got turned off and why the fuck do you need that if you cyno in your shit anyways) nonetheless, and even in the time afterwards, CONCORD didn't so much as raise a finger to return to the status quo. Amazingly enough, there was that wierd amarr guy leading an army into Solitude (or wherever), without CONCORD ever being a problem. Then we got the Caldari Prime v 2.0 where CONCORD just showed up to say "HAVE FUN KILLING EVERYONE GUYS!", and then, of course, the Minmatar-Gallente thing, where CONCORD was apparently not a problem, too.

Inconsistency piled on inconsistency. And I get that TonyG tried to incorporate the "impossible to defeat"-CONCORD mechanic into his story, because it's in the game, but welp...

[Publius Valerius]

[...]It would've been nice to not have a bad copypaste of history with a bad deus ex machina to make it happen. [...]

The most amazing detail of TEA, by the way. The unholy attack on CONCORD had to happen so that the strike force was able to breach Fed space without getting totally CONCORDed because it was against space laws to change the borders, etc, etc, yet the Fed still had an amazing border security system (that totally got turned off and why the fuck do you need that if you cyno in your shit anyways) nonetheless, and even in the time afterwards, CONCORD didn't so much as raise a finger to return to the status quo. Amazingly enough, there was that wierd amarr guy leading an army into Solitude (or wherever), without CONCORD ever being a problem. Then we got the Caldari Prime v 2.0 where CONCORD just showed up to say "HAVE FUN KILLING EVERYONE GUYS!", and then, of course, the Minmatar-Gallente thing, where CONCORD was apparently not a problem, too.

Inconsistency piled on inconsistency. And I get that TonyG tried to incorporate the "impossible to defeat"-CONCORD mechanic into his story, because it's in the game, but welp...

I think the visit of the Minmatar-Thukker Fleet before the destruction was even worse (What I call the "terrorist fly by"). I still dont get why he had included this part? There was zero important dialog in this scene, he could include all the plot points in other parts of TEA. Moreover that it made CONCORD look like a punish of morons (Imagine 9/11, with an early waring, but without any reaction from the US... Where the guys made a fly by around the towers in may, with no reaction from the government. And afterwards, months later a terrorist act in the same place.).



I would rather be subject to the rule of?
Answer: robotic, naive, religious, inflexible Synthia 1


Edit: Links