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[Lillith Blackheart]

Wow. Ok.

This seems to be something you have trouble with.

Look. This:

[ 2010.05.26 01:11:05 ] Lillith Blackheart > Most amusing.
 [ 2010.05.26 01:11:07 ] Ghost Hunter > You have failed Mr. Soter! You have failed so magifniciently!
 [ 2010.05.26 01:13:45 ] Ghost Hunter > Your Accord gave me everything Nation asked for, and now you have sent all these souls into damnation as well!
 [ 2010.05.26 01:23:44 ] Ghost Hunter > Your ignorance blinds you. Your very leader sent you here at my beck and call. Nation appreciates his continued cooperation over the months.

Is in character.

Julianus Soter is not you. Julianus Soter does not exist.

Ghost Hunter, the character, is referring to Julianus Soter, the character, because Julianus Soter, the character, has made himself out to be a target in character.

This has absolutely nothing to do with you.

This is entirely in character motivationally.

At no point did we say anything about "the guy who plays Julianus Soter". At no point did we ever say "Julianus' player did X".

This comment:

It isn't about you.

Is Out of Character.

Do we see and understand the difference?

((Note: I'm really not trying to be a dick here, I'm honestly confused if we do or not))

[Lillith Blackheart]

Oh, missed this:

" [ 2010.05.26 01:13:14 ] GoldSnake > for the node!"

While you claim it wasn't your intention to, Cry Havoc was more than happy to assist in creating grid-lag to allow for better slaughter conditions.

At the point at which he said that, PL was already on the scene and it was evident the node was about to crap itself. I see that as someone making a joke about a bad situation and nothing more. Could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.

[Julianus Soter]

Perhaps I should have used third person? it's such bad grammar and screws with my syntax.

Sansha supporters attempted to drive a wedge between my character, who is in a leadership position, and the rag-tag group of people fighting the Sansha, many of whom have had little interface with my character beyond some 80-man fleets my character has led. Well, actually, last bit is a lie. I led the fleet, my character acted as a name in a list of names, and was quiet the entire time. . . you see how difficult it is?

Leadership in this kind of thing, Lilith, is inherently IC and OOC. There is a very high standard of OOC competency to be in any position of power or leadership in this game. This is because it is very easy for people to simply walk out the door. We're not bound by employment contracts.

When I lead a group of people they trust me IC and OOC. If they don't trust me IC, they likely don't trust me OOC. And vice versa. Judgment regarding leadership is inherently on the human level, not on a roleplaying level.

Hence the difficulty of separating "me" and "my character" during intense leadership actions, or when discussing my leadership in the context of this broader situation.

Regarding Cry havoc: they all know the consequences of ships and crowding a grid with 400 people. It's metagaming. They relished the chance of having people lock up on grid load. Perhaps you all were ignorant about it. . . but it was your choice not to move the time and allow for reasonable preparations to be made on the server. Your responsibility. 

Personally, I'm more than willing to have all of this go away and be forgotten. But it seems that the issue wishes to drag itself out more than you, OOC, bargained for.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Ok, it's at this point I'm going to disengage from this discussion with you now, because frankly I'm not comfortable with the fuzziness that I'm seeing here, and I generally try to avoid conversations that fall away like that, and I would like to do so before I do something to get me warned.


I will respond to this:

I like how you passed over Cry Havoc. . . but that's not really the point is it?

I realized I passed it over and added it as a secondary post. Right above yours. I opted not to edit it in, because that would have been disingenuous, so instead I created a secondary post. If you would like to continue that discussion I will be happy to, but I will no longer discuss any of the rest of the event with you.

[Lillith Blackheart]

Last reply before I go to bed (WAY past my bedtime)...

Regarding Cry havoc: they all know the consequences of ships and crowding a grid with 400 people. It's metagaming. They relished the chance of having people lock up on grid load. Perhaps you all were ignorant about it. . . but it was your choice not to move the time and allow for reasonable preparations to be made on the server. Your responsibility.

Er. 400 people on the grid was fine. Again. Still emphasizing that. It wasn't until PL/NC jumped in an additional 300 people after that that the grid started to seize, and I would like to point out one final time that we did not expect them to be there. As stated, we leaked this to three people. Three. Two of those people brought ~20-50 people each. We expected ~200 from you.

Anything above and beyond those numbers? We can not be blamed for, whether or not you wish to.

[Julianus Soter]

heh. it was fine for you because you had already loaded grid. You're not too experienced with this kind of warfare, are you? =p

[IzzyChan]

heh. it was fine for you because you had already loaded grid. You're not too experienced with this kind of warfare, are you? =p

Shit happens in EVE.  Nodes crash, people unexpectedly show up.  You just have to roll with it.

This whole false intel thing is nothing new you know, 0.0 warfare does this about weekly.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Well, you're certainly free to think whatever you want Soter, but right now you're displaying a very petty attitude taking this situation entirely the wrong way. For what reason (ego?), I have no idea.

Clearly, this entire event wasn't a trap, but a clever ruse to crash the server and make the game unplayable! *Shakes fist at Ghost* You won't get away with this!

I can tell you I have no interest in interacting with you one way or another. You've certainly displayed your true colors here.

[Julianus Soter]

Ironically, ghost hunter agrees with me regarding the OOC manipulation. He said he would "look into it" in OOC chan last night.

[Casiella]

Point of order: looking into an allegation does not equate to agreeing with the allegation. It means he will act fairly and check on things.

Unless he said something more than that? I suspect he'll be along to clarify later, but lots of people are watching this thread and observing who acts in what manner.

[Ghost Hunter]

Ironically, ghost hunter agrees with me regarding the OOC manipulation. He said he would "look into it" in OOC chan last night.

One should never rush into a debate without their facts straight.

I know where precisely things went and why now. Our leak said something along the lines of "Kuvakei might/will show up in a titan", but the actual numbers of what 'would come' was Screaming Blade's own fantasies. He's the one who made up the 12 chimeras + a titan thing. As far as I can tell from what I know right now, pretty much all your impressions came from his deranged expectations. We supplied the possibility of an appearance to him.

It wasn't until the 10-30 minutes before the operation time did we actually start lying to him directly about Sansha and True Commanders coming to the battlefield. This was done for authenticity reasons, in order to fulfill the real objective of publicly hanging him.

Thusly, in the end, it would seem the deception to create an impression of Kuvakei appearing was amplified by his own expectations. This, coupled with whatever willingness to believe in him you guys had, is what created the end product.

On a partially related note, I didn't realize the operation time our main man picked was an hour before DT until I woke up the next day. At which point I was under the impression it was far too late to reschedule it an hour or two earlier. Typical intelligence thing, change it too much and you risk the integrity of its supposed validity.

Well, you're certainly free to think whatever you want Soter, but right now you're displaying a very petty attitude taking this situation entirely the wrong way. For what reason (ego?), I have no idea.

Clearly, this entire event wasn't a trap, but a clever ruse to crash the server and make the game unplayable! *Shakes fist at Ghost* You won't get away with this!

I can tell you I have no interest in interacting with you one way or another. You've certainly displayed your true colors here.

;_____________________________;

Point of order: looking into an allegation does not equate to agreeing with the allegation. It means he will act fairly and check on things.

Unless he said something more than that? I suspect he'll be along to clarify later, but lots of people are watching this thread and observing who acts in what manner.

My aim is to understand what went where, how and why. I agree it would be unfortunate if any of us acted in a malicious, OOC way to spread the false intelligence. Malicious in my understanding, being if I approached people OOC and told them, "Yeah Kuvakei is going to show up and X, Y, Z". Polluting the Live Events channel, etc...

Maybe I did, I certainly don't recall myself doing that. (Feel free to send me chatlogs) My awareness as I said above, only stretches to what lies we fed Screaming Blade.

[Z.Sinraali]

What's that line about assuming incompetence instead of malice?

[The Cosmopolite]

There are any number of levels on which I find this thread amusing.

Ah me.

Cosmo

[Alain Colcer]

Ok, this discussion is getting a bit out of hand.

So i'll retreat, but not without first thanking lillith, Ghost, Casiella, Nataclya for providing your details, i wasn't fully informed on what "The Nation" did.

And agreeing with Kal here, even if this player event generated some hard feelings (a bit many i would say  ), it made a lasting impression on many people, and that is what "events" are all about.

[Havohej]

Am I understanding correctly that some IC misinformation was spread which caused a whole lot of people to jump (apparently unscouted) into a Cry Havoc trap in lowsec somewhere, losing a lot of people a lot of ships, and a few of those people are really, really mad OOC about it?

'Cause that's how it looks from the outside...