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[Silver Night]

[admin]Cleaned, hopefully for the last time. I will probably be cranky when I get back, try to make it a relaxing evening for me, folks? Please?[/admin]

[IzzyChan]

I really don't understand what the problem is.   If I wanted to be told what I can and can't do in a video game I'd be playing a JRPG. :/

[Alain Colcer]

Seems i'm a retard trying to explain my point....but i'll try one more time.

Roleplaying between player-factions -> yes it will spur activity, people will try to get back even at the Nation loyalists, in any way possible, as it is eve's spirit.

I'm good with that? yes i'm static with that! HTFU, lets pew pew, lets blow each other to hell, bring the spies, the scams, the drama!.

Roleplaying between CCP and Players -> i'll have to double check, triple check, and just be on the safe side, blob the event, just in case it isnt a CCP event and the player faction is trying to do something fishy. I'll treat deferently any "contacts" unless its blue/yellow/purple-ish color talking (and even so i think someone will find a way to add color to evemails making it more the case of fake setup).

Is that HFTU? to me it isn't, is just placing a paranoia barrier to CCP, and any volunteering staff that is willing to do any event at all ingame.

It is a game, but i feel we have just opened a pandora box as to how people will react to CCP driven events....not sure if i'm clear now.....but between players anything goes, we are sociopaths, murderers, lyers, and just plain barbarians cause the game allows us to be free in those ways, and people learn to interact ingame and in character with such reality, we HFTU pick up again and do our RPing the way we like it, that is fine i get it...don't repeat it to me endlessly.

What happens when we treat CCP that same way?, what happens when we receive CCP in the same way we receive opposing players and nemesis? one could argue, "i'ts their game they created such rules, they should HTFU and learn from us". Somehow, i feel it won't work within that context, and if that's so, we had the best live event arch (Sansha resurrection) and just killed it.

  perhaps people don't care about such interaction, but if i was working for CCP as an event employee, not sure i would like to throw myself into that.

[Lillith Blackheart]

But that's the thing, Bruno -- that's really not what happened.

People received information from someone that was trying to spy on us. We didn't even at any point say Sansha would be there or that Slaves would be there, or anything of that nature. That was entirely manufactured in the SynePublic channel. That was all you guys (you being generic, not meaning Bruno).

There was nothing that came from CCP. There was nothing that indicated "CCP IS INVOLVED WITH THIS" until people took it and ran with it.

This is what I meant in the other thread when I said "We couldn't have done it without you. " to Soter. I wasn't being snide, I wasn't being a jerk. It simply was true. People went crazy on it and the lie built itself from nothing more than "Oh wow, this dude is trying to backstab me. Was there an attack coming? Oh, yeah, we were planning a big attack on Maut."

That's it.

Everything else from there, besides a few small details (like it being planet 6 and involving a TCU) were made up by the "other side". We never told them that there would be Sansha (until the point at which the guy was in the group we never even mentioned the Slaves), we never told them that there would be Slaves. We just never told them they weren't. We let them take it and run with it.

The group that we -- in character -- were trying to fool manufactured the entire event with only a few time and date details submitted by us.

We manufactured no evidence. We never indicted CCP to be involved. This is important because everyone is ignoring it.

So again.... is it going to hamper anything? Not likely at all. If it does it would only happen because people are taking it personally. Will people think twice before getting info from a source? I should damn well hope so.

That isn't going to impact CCP's event team at all. It's really obvious when something is coming straight from the horse's mouth. Either the character is 150 years old or it's in an NPC corp -- purple or blue text notwithstanding.

[Natalcya Katla]

Even if it had happened exactly that way, with us planting carefully constructed lies and nothing getting embellished upon by the receiving side, I disagree that it constitutes that kind of Pandora's box at all.

First off, as Lillith said, CCP can make their characters belong to any kind of NPC corporation that regular players can't possibly get into, and create an employment record for said characters which is longer than the game has existed. Plus, they talk in funny colors. If they want you to know that they're CCP, you will know it.

Second, being critical of intel does not have to mean dismissing it out of hand as "potentially false and therefore probably false", and sitting in station doing nothing - nor should it. It can in fact mean something so simple as ordering the bulk of the assembled lynch mob to stay put in the adjoining high security system (where they can't be dropped capitals on) and sending a handful of scouts in to verify that the enemy is on the field before committing the entire force to the fight. If it turns out to be just a ruse, then all it costs you is the trip. If it's genuine, you'll be ready to respond in full force immediately upon confirming it as such.

Being cautious does not necessitate ignoring credible intel (and CCP's endeavors to sponsor events) at all.

[Julianus Soter]

Interestingly, the source for the Ishaeka reports to me was a simple noobcorp alt. not a hard-NPC corp member.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

People are going to remember events where they had to take sides, risk something, and pursue a goal that takes them outside of their daily eve grind. If this sansha arc had continued the way it originally was intended, players shooting hordes of npcs, this discussion wouldn't even be happening. People would be bitching about loot and the general interest level in the community would be virtually non-existant. How this sets a negative precedent for EVE-Online in general, when things like corp theft are legitimate means of subterfuge, is beyond me.

[Julianus Soter]

It's hardly setting a precedent. It's hearkening back to the days of when the events were blobbed by hordes of pirates in battleships and camped incoming gates, with misinformation campaigns being the primary weapon of choice by opposing RP coalitions, whose own strength was so anemic they relied upon the pirates to be their main fighting force.

It is because of this tactic of escalation that made the events near unplayable, by a number of accounts.

The Sansha supporters set up a honeytrap with CH as the executioner of those that responded to it. We brought around. . . 300 pilots. But unfortunately, because Ghost in his infinite wisdom, didn't notify CCP to reinforce the node, and scheduled it before downtime, the node went effectively dead and grid load made the situation impossible for effective combat control.

That is why people are angry. Myself? I will simply kill sansha supporters as often as possible. I will give them no quarter, and if they resort to OOC tactics, then why should I play nice with them in return, OOC?

Once again, the game escalates.

[Silver Night]

Can you clarify where you believe OOC tactics were used?

[Kaleigh Doyle]

I'm really not impressed with your attitude, Soter.

You're essentially implying that 'escalating' the conflict by getting proxy forces involved in the event was somehow a conscious tactic to make the game unplayable? Seriously? You honestly think that Ghost, Drake, and everyone on the Sansha side involved in the event planned to crash the server?

That's hilarious.

[Julianus Soter]

I'm more than happy to, Silver. Planning an event before a early downtime, for a patch deployment for a video game, is not In-Character knowledge, nor can I think of any reasonable excuse for it.

It would have made sense, for instance, if there was a massive invasion of some kind, requiring CONCORD to enter into a special session, wherein they give capsuleers additional powers to face the sansha threat by amassing more capital/resources. That would have been perfect. In this case, however, Sansha supporters picked the patch deployment downtime to create, in their own words, "maximum chaos".

An OOC tactic.

That will be met by an OOC response, by some.

My only interest is to play my part in this great space opera, and that involves helping organize the anti-sansha effort, do investigative work, have fun with my friends.

What is really ironic about all of this, is that this great effort, the climax of their ingenuity and aspirations, seems to have totally backfired on them. In a contrived attempt to pin the Maut invasion hoax on me, it seems the ire of our coalition is focused squarely upon them. Such a shame.

Edit:
To Kaleigh/Nola Doyle: the entire effort was, as has been stated by them, publicly, was to create chaos. Anything conducive to those ends was seen as a positive. If they wanted this to be a lag-free engagement between our coalition forces, themselves, and their temporary CH buddies, then they would have picked a proper time, and allowed the node at that location to be reinforced.

In this case, they did not.

That leaves a few options. One, they were either shortsighted enough that they didn't realize the nature of the Coalition response to an attempt to "conquer the system, with Kuvakei present", or two, they felt that the coalition forces shouldn't be given the consideration of fighting on a reinforced node. I give the Sansha folks more credit than option one implies, so, I figure option two is more likely.

[Lillith Blackheart]

I'm more than happy to, Silver. Planning an event before a early downtime, for a patch deployment for a video game, is not In-Character knowledge, nor can I think of any reasonable excuse for it.

Here you go, are you ready for this? Here's a really hard thought: It didn't even come to mind until the day it was going on that "Oh crap, downtime is early."

I'm serious, this is what happened. When talking about the time he pulled 0100 on Tuesday out of his ass, and this was also one day before they announced when the downtime was.

You're right, it's not IC knowledge, and at the time that Drake pulled the time of the engagement out of his butt it wasn't OOC knowledge either.

That count as a reasonable excuse?

It would have made sense, for instance, if there was a massive invasion of some kind, requiring CONCORD to enter into a special session, wherein they give capsuleers additional powers to face the sansha threat by amassing more capital/resources. That would have been perfect. In this case, however, Sansha supporters picked the patch deployment downtime to create, in their own words, "maximum chaos".

You're mincing ideas to score OOC points, Soter. This is exactly the kind of thing that I started this thread about in the first place.

1. I don't even know what you're talking about in that special session stuff.
2. We did not pick the patch deployment downtime as stated above. Please stop trying to rewrite history.
3. No one said "maximum chaos". The exact wording (because it was me that said it) was that we had set up the event to publicly hang a spy, and then leave you to the ensuing chaos. Not even counting the 300 extra people that PL/NC brought in (that was the real source of the problem that you're claiming was the real issue -- and also that we didn't invite) there would be chaos. We planned to exit the field and leave everyone to it.

An OOC tactic.

Not at all. You are making an effort to alter it to so. Everything we did we did 100% in character. Please try to reciprocate in kind.

That will be met by an OOC response, by some.

It was, and it sucks, we worked IC, we get OOC responses, it's a bitch.

What is really ironic about all of this, is that this great effort, the climax of their ingenuity and aspirations, seems to have totally backfired on them. In a contrived attempt to pin the Maut invasion hoax on me, it seems the ire of our coalition is focused squarely upon them. Such a shame.

I'm sorry, what is this? Ok, you're awfully full of yourself here, Soter. Let me explain something here, and it's amazing how often I have to say this in online games, but...

It isn't about you.

To Kaleigh/Nola Doyle: the entire effort was, as has been stated by them, publicly, was to create chaos. Anything conducive to those ends was seen as a positive. If they wanted this to be a lag-free engagement between our coalition forces, themselves, and their temporary CH buddies, then they would have picked a proper time, and allowed the node at that location to be reinforced.

1. We didn't recognize the downtime until after everything was scheduled, because it wasn't announced yet, and at that point we couldn't go about changing it without blowing the whole thing.

2. We only expected half the people that showed up, so as far as we were aware the node had no purpose in being reinforced. Why do people keep bringing that up even though it's already been made evident that that wasn't intentional? Please stop hammering on points that have been refuted.

3. The vast majority of publicity this got was not done by the Sansha RPers. We told 3 entire people -- one spy, and two contacts to bring in help. All the rest was not done by us. If I recall the live events, synepublic, and so on channels were blowing up all over -- in fact you and yours continually point that out. So where do you think they heard about it from?

We told three, you all told hundreds. 700 showed up. This seems easily understood.

That leaves a few options. One, they were either shortsighted enough that they didn't realize the nature of the Coalition response to an attempt to "conquer the system, with Kuvakei present", or two, they felt that the coalition forces shouldn't be given the consideration of fighting on a reinforced node. I give the Sansha folks more credit than option one implies, so, I figure option two is more likely.

Considering that we've explained a dozen times that we expected about 300-400 people -- which the node handled fine, and didn't expect the additional 300-350 people that suddenly came in out of nowhere when Pandemic Legion crashed the party, please stop hammering on this point, Soter, it just makes you look spiteful.

[Julianus Soter]

 

 [ 2010.05.26 01:11:05 ] Lillith Blackheart > Most amusing.
 [ 2010.05.26 01:11:07 ] Ghost Hunter > You have failed Mr. Soter! You have failed so magifniciently!
 [ 2010.05.26 01:13:45 ] Ghost Hunter > Your Accord gave me everything Nation asked for, and now you have sent all these souls into damnation as well!
 [ 2010.05.26 01:23:44 ] Ghost Hunter > Your ignorance blinds you. Your very leader sent you here at my beck and call. Nation appreciates his continued cooperation over the months.

My favorite, Invicta/Cry Havoc Pilot:
 [ 2010.05.26 01:13:14 ] GoldSnake > for the node!

[Lillith Blackheart]

....and that has.... what to do with the discussion?

[Julianus Soter]

I'll break it down bit by bit.

"It isn't about you."

For some silly reason, you made it about me.

" [ 2010.05.26 01:13:14 ] GoldSnake > for the node!"

While you claim it wasn't your intention to, Cry Havoc was more than happy to assist in creating grid-lag to allow for better slaughter conditions.