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[Ken]

I thought the evening was a lot of fun OOC, and IC it gave me some justification to distance Ken from the Gal-led SYNE while winning PR points at home.  I've also noticed some of the very thinly veiled (if that) OOC activity in IGS, and it's too bad that we're seeing that.  Still, most of the big players involved seem to be RPing the aftermath rather well.

[Alain Colcer]

I'll be quite honest, i loved the fact it was a setup made by players to grief other players, specially of the oppossing faction. Did it go out of hand? tough luck.

What troubles me is that this player-lead event looked a lot like a CCP sponsored one, the info i got was so well thought and correlated with other articles in chronicles and Omune Balenne's posts on eve-o that i honestly believed it.

The issue is, for every upcoming piece of "info" or rumour that i will get, i'll have to just not take it as something coming from CCP until it is proven otherwise, how can i do that? why would i do that? do i care that much? short answer is no.

I might be the only one thinking that, but i bet a numbers of people who were eager to jump into the RP bandwagon because finally CCP was providing an interesting sandbox area to try it, will think it twice knowing there are other players inside the box already taking the sand out.

[Casiella]

Is it taking the sand out, or is it just continuing to play along with it?

[Arvo Katsuya]

While I was skeptical of the whole thing (mind you I'm hearing this all in SYNE while not actually being there), there remained a small bit of hope of maybe... just maybe, something as dynamic as a low-sec sov change would happen as a possible result of it. That would be crazy.

So much for that, huh?

[Lillith Blackheart]

I might be the only one thinking that, but i bet a numbers of people who were eager to jump into the RP bandwagon because finally CCP was providing an interesting sandbox area to try it, will think it twice knowing there are other players inside the box already taking the sand out.

I would suggest it's more like there are other players inside the box building a little village out of sand to play with their toys in.

[Silver Night]

I think it is that things like this are possible that makes Eve a game worth playing.

[Alain Colcer]

I might be the only one thinking that, but i bet a numbers of people who were eager to jump into the RP bandwagon because finally CCP was providing an interesting sandbox area to try it, will think it twice knowing there are other players inside the box already taking the sand out.

I would suggest it's more like there are other players inside the box building a little village out of sand to play with their toys in.

nope, in true eve's spirit it was clever people manipulating others to believe they could do sand castles, without even knowing the sand already had an owner and it was all a plot to destroy any sand castles present there to harvest sweet sweet tears.

The above is completely hilarious and entirely within the concept of what eve is, a cage for people to mess with each other as much as possible.

But the point i'm arguing, is it conducive to any future efforts for CCP to do any live events? you see, is not if players should have or should have not planned anything like that, my point is that it was done so well, that from now it makes a precedent. People will escalate upon that.

If you are a Sansha loyalist, would you believe any "intel" send to you in RP form from within an evemail? it could very well be the guys who got surprised in Maut planning to do a counter-player event to grief back (the principle of if you throw me a brick, ill throw you 2 back).

What if it was really CCP trying to do another live event?.

We didn't crash anything between players, we augmented it, but effectively put any CCP effort for future live events out of the ring.

[Casiella]

So only CCP should arrange roleplay events? Do I understand your position correctly?

[Silver Night]

I think ultimately it won't be harmful that people's exuberance over events is tempered with a healthy amount of caution. Particularly low sec events.

[Lillith Blackheart]

nope, in true eve's spirit it was clever people manipulating others to believe they could do sand castles, without even knowing the sand already had an owner and it was all a plot to destroy any sand castles present there to harvest sweet sweet tears.

Harvesting tears wasn't our goal. You seem to think our intentions were OOC. They were not. The actions were entirely in character. The response, on the other hand, has not been.

We made a little village out of sand. We've got a bunch of toys here, people are welcome to come play if they want.

But the point i'm arguing, is it conducive to any future efforts for CCP to do any live events? you see, is not if players should have or should have not planned anything like that, my point is that it was done so well, that from now it makes a precedent. People will escalate upon that.

The precedent was made years ago. I assume everyone here knows who Istvaan is and why that name is important. Is it conducive? No. Is it going to slow it down? No. It's really not going to change anything other than people second-guessing things, which is good.

Also, they're just going to forget it soon anyway, so the mountain is really a molehill. Everyone's just grumpy because they got had, and are taking it personally even though it has nothing to do with them specifically.

It's just a game, people move on.

If you are a Sansha loyalist, would you believe any "intel" send to you in RP form from within an evemail?

You're asking the wrong person, as I am a Sansha loyalist, and the fact that I wouldn't believe any intel sent me in RP form from within an evemail has nothing to do with the event. I wouldn't believe it in the first place unless I had some other evidence that it was acceptably true.

it could very well be the guys who got surprised in Maut planning to do a counter-player event to grief back (the principle of if you throw me a brick, ill throw you 2 back).

To which they are welcome to try, because this is a game. Our actions were in character actions. If someone wants to get us back for it in character they may go right ahead.

I don't start screaming at Verone about how horrible he is for being a big piratey jerkface because I got caught by VETO once in a blue moon. I accept my lumps, I learn from it, and I get the fuck over it, because it's a game.

The fact that people are taking this so personally is the only reason that it is even remotely capable of having a deleterious affect on the CCP live events. If people weren't responding in such an OOC personal way, it would have no impact whatsoever.

What if it was really CCP trying to do another live event?.

Then I guess I lose out on that one, don't I? (Hint: I missed out on a few of the events in this chain for just this reason, but I'm still partaking in it, and I'm still having fun).

[admin]I took out that last bit, much though I am usually against snip moderation, because I felt it didn't change the content of the rest of the post. Please post a reply and respond again in a more constructive way, if you would like, Lilith. I realize that tempers on both sides may tend to run high just now.[/admin]

[Silver Night]

[admin]I think this thread has had some valuable discussion on both sides, regarding different points of view on this issue. Please try to keep it civil.[/admin]

[Casiella]

The precedent was made years ago. I assume everyone here knows who Istvaan is and why that name is important. Is it conducive? No. Is it going to slow it down? No. It's really not going to change anything other than people second-guessing things, which is good.

I have to disagree with this one bit, though I mostly echo the rest of your comment. The most well-known GHSC exploit has drawn many thousands of players to EVE and fascinated countless others. This sort of duplicity and information warfare comes with the territory, and if we want players who embrace the EVE design philosophy rather than folks solely looking to make friends through random encounters (a la the Butterfly Effect trailer), then we should be championing this sort of event.

[Lillith Blackheart]

[admin]Saying 'You are either lying, or being foolish' - more or less emphatically - is still outside the guidelines and is not helpful to the discussion. People can and will lie, or make mistakes. They will often also have views and opinions so different from yours that they may, indeed, be difficult to fathom. We try to give the benefit of the doubt, here, that it is the last, rather than either of the former.The reason that I didn't clip your entire earlier post is that you offered constructive counter-examples, etc. That is the way to do it.Now, I have to go to a family event. If I come back to a mess, I'm going to hand out warnings.[/admin]

I have to disagree with this one bit, though I mostly echo the rest of your comment. The most well-known GHSC exploit has drawn many thousands of players to EVE and fascinated countless others. This sort of duplicity and information warfare comes with the territory, and if we want players who embrace the EVE design philosophy rather than folks solely looking to make friends through random encounters (a la the Butterfly Effect trailer), then we should be championing this sort of event.

That's not disagreeing with what I said. That was the precedent that was set.

[Casiella]

I apologize for misunderstanding your point, then. Carry on!

[Natalcya Katla]

First rule of EVE: Harden the fuck up. You either learn it, or you're bound to burn out and leave the game sooner or later anyway.

If getting tricked by your enemies - in an act of counter-espionage, no less - causes potential roleplayers to not get further involved in roleplay or events, then I for one am not the least bit sad to see them go.

I don't see at all why something like this makes further events from CCP impossible - or even impairs it at all - in any way, shape or form, but even in the event that it did, I'd rather have no events at all than an event structure which wouldn't allow private player initiatives like this.