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[Nmaro Makari]

So, Ukrainian crisis. This happened today:

Leaked Phone Call Embarrasses US

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaa-67yGM#t=89 Full leaked conversation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amd4l0OtKkA Additional stuff from Russia Today

Fascinating insight as to what's going on behind the scenes, at least on one side of the crisis. Can't imagine the leak having any good repercussions though.

[Vic Van Meter]

Oh, I don't know, I figured everyone hated our government so much now that anything we do could be construed as bad.  Maybe Yanukovych will sign the EU accords out of spite now.

[Nmaro Makari]

I don't know, I think it might have the opposite effect. Yakunovich is now basically going to think "awesome, the US doesn't think my opposition can hack it, and wants to cut the EU out of the picture. Imma get on the phone to Vladimir"

[Vic Van Meter]

I don't know, I think it might have the opposite effect. Yakunovich is now basically going to think "awesome, the US doesn't think my opposition can hack it, and wants to cut the EU out of the picture. Imma get on the phone to Vladimir"

Honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would give a flying damn what our diplomats think of the situation.  Short of us having the reins of NATO, this is a dust-up between the pro-European and pro-Russian ends of the country.  There's a Ukrainian-Canadian that lives here now and works in the studio with me.  She's definitely from the former end; I think she said something about not being in Ukraine because of the Soviets in the 80s or something.  Let's just say that if her sentiments are echoed on the ground in Ukraine about the distaste in Russian influence, it wouldn't matter if the U.S. wanted to do anything there.  She hates Putin.

At least she's the only Ukrainian I personally know and could ask about the situation.

[orange]

F'n State Department.

1) Standard response to non-official statements, presented via the internet: "We can neither confirm nor deny the authenticity of the referenced material."  They f'd this up with Manning/Wikileaks and they are f'n it up now.

2) If State is unable to recognize that every US Embassy in the former Soviet Union has been bugged by the KGB and its successor since it was built during the Cold War then the diplomats should be f'n fired.   Unless the US imported the materials and labor to build the building and has complete control over the network (they don't), then they are bugged.   

[Jace]

I don't know, I think it might have the opposite effect. Yakunovich is now basically going to think "awesome, the US doesn't think my opposition can hack it, and wants to cut the EU out of the picture. Imma get on the phone to Vladimir"

Honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would give a flying damn what our diplomats think of the situation.  Short of us having the reins of NATO, this is a dust-up between the pro-European and pro-Russian ends of the country.  There's a Ukrainian-Canadian that lives here now and works in the studio with me.  She's definitely from the former end; I think she said something about not being in Ukraine because of the Soviets in the 80s or something.  Let's just say that if her sentiments are echoed on the ground in Ukraine about the distaste in Russian influence, it wouldn't matter if the U.S. wanted to do anything there.  She hates Putin.

At least she's the only Ukrainian I personally know and could ask about the situation.

Ukraine is very divided politically based on their geography, much like Italy is.

[Lyn Farel]

This leads again to US blunder after blunder diplomatically. Stabbing one's own allies at the same time that negotiations for free trade and new improved relationships between US and Europe are being held sounds rather schizophrenic. Added to NSA spying european citizens and phone networks and legitimizing it with excuses about terrorist threats.

No matter that our own politics are currently trying to expunge american giants like Google (and soon Amazon & co) of our soil, invoking that they avoid taxation (which is true) as an excuse for preventing american agencies to access citizen data stored in such companies. It doesn't surprise me at all. I think they didn't took the NSA leaks very well. This is only the continuation of the same issue, directly related or not, imo.

[Victoria Stecker]

  Unless the US imported the materials and labor to build the building and has complete control over the network (they don't), then they are bugged.   

Actually, these days they try to do just that. I work in plumbing wholesale and embassy jobs are a pain in the ass because we have to source the material domestically, then we have to deal with a pile of export paperwork, then we have to deal with the fact that domestic stuff is made for US pipes (measured in inches) and everywhere else is metric...

so yeah. They try. But they aren't always successful.

[Vic Van Meter]

  Unless the US imported the materials and labor to build the building and has complete control over the network (they don't), then they are bugged.   

Actually, these days they try to do just that. I work in plumbing wholesale and embassy jobs are a pain in the ass because we have to source the material domestically, then we have to deal with a pile of export paperwork, then we have to deal with the fact that domestic stuff is made for US pipes (measured in inches) and everywhere else is metric...

so yeah. They try. But they aren't always successful.

I'd say something about how well the Russians do the spy thing, but apparently our government has hacked everything that has ever been and ever will be without asking permission.

If that's what we found out from one nobody NSA pencil-pusher working for an outsource company, makes you wonder what the real stackers at the CIA are up to.

[orange]

Added to NSA spying european citizens and phone networks and legitimizing it with excuses about terrorist threats.

Note, the NSA does it to US Citizens too.  In other words, if there was no compunction for spying on Americans, its own citizens, then why do you think the same logic would not apply to nominally allied nations citizenry.

No matter that our own politics are currently trying to expunge american giants like Google (and soon Amazon & co) of our soil, invoking that they avoid taxation (which is true) as an excuse for preventing american agencies to access citizen data stored in such companies.

I am pretty sure most international companies take efforts to avoid taxation, regardless of where they are operating.

And the logic trail to suggest that data will be safer stored by an European company seems incredibly flawed.  Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple, etc have political power in the US and are pissed at the NSA and intelligence complex.  The giants are going to be investing in IT security based on the fact that their opposition is now state actors and not just highly organized criminal enterprises (the difference there can be blurry  ).  The leadership and lawyers at these companies found out the same way the rest of the world did - Edward Snowden.

Frankly, the best positioned organizations to take on the illegal collection of citizen data are the very companies that collect it with our (usage-based) consent.

How the NSA Almost Killed the Internet - Wired

Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and the other tech titans have had to fight for their lives against their own government. An exclusive look inside their year from hell—and why the Internet will never be the same.

  Unless the US imported the materials and labor to build the building and has complete control over the network (they don't), then they are bugged.   

Actually, these days they try to do just that. I work in plumbing wholesale and embassy jobs are a pain in the ass because we have to source the material domestically, then we have to deal with a pile of export paperwork, then we have to deal with the fact that domestic stuff is made for US pipes (measured in inches) and everywhere else is metric...

so yeah. They try. But they aren't always successful.

I am sure they do, but the Ukraine and other European capitals I suspect are low on the list of places to get that treatment especially considering the size of State's budget and cost of places like the US Embassy, Baghdad, Iraq.

I'd say something about how well the Russians do the spy thing, but apparently our government has hacked everything that has ever been and ever will be without asking permission.

If that's what we found out from one nobody NSA pencil-pusher working for an outsource company, makes you wonder what the real stackers at the CIA are up to.

US technological wizardry is frankly nothing short of awesome (as in inspiring awe).

[Aldrith Shutaq]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[orange]

Oh, Canada...   

[Lyn Farel]

lol Canada 

Added to NSA spying european citizens and phone networks and legitimizing it with excuses about terrorist threats.

Note, the NSA does it to US Citizens too.  In other words, if there was no compunction for spying on Americans, its own citizens, then why do you think the same logic would not apply to nominally allied nations citizenry.

I don't know ? Diplomatic incidents / pressure ? It is true that EU has none of that and is mostly an emasculated body unable to take strong political measures.

However, sometimes I miss De Gaulle time when he used to tell the US to stfu without any shame. Not that I don't like the US, to the contrary actually, but I tend to think that allied relationships with them can be really unhealthy as hell.

Maybe a necessary evil...

No matter that our own politics are currently trying to expunge american giants like Google (and soon Amazon & co) of our soil, invoking that they avoid taxation (which is true) as an excuse for preventing american agencies to access citizen data stored in such companies.

I am pretty sure most international companies take efforts to avoid taxation, regardless of where they are operating.

And the logic trail to suggest that data will be safer stored by an European company seems incredibly flawed.  Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple, etc have political power in the US and are pissed at the NSA and intelligence complex.  The giants are going to be investing in IT security based on the fact that their opposition is now state actors and not just highly organized criminal enterprises (the difference there can be blurry  ).  The leadership and lawyers at these companies found out the same way the rest of the world did - Edward Snowden.

Frankly, the best positioned organizations to take on the illegal collection of citizen data are the very companies that collect it with our (usage-based) consent.

How the NSA Almost Killed the Internet - Wired

Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and the other tech titans have had to fight for their lives against their own government. An exclusive look inside their year from hell—and why the Internet will never be the same.

That's probably true. Though I can still understand why they can be considered as a threat on the matter since they are foreign companies.