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[Vikarion]

As someone who had to work during this period, I do not immediately regret my absence. At all. 

Nor do I regret my personal commitment to avoid live events.

Also, this is hilarious. For me.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Just restating this again, in case it wasn't made clear enough:

The lab structures, the ones we were supposed to be out to destroy, could not be damaged. Weapons fire at them struck for 0.0 damage. Even if the entire empire fleet had focused fire on the structure, it could not be destroyed by weapons fire.

So yes, right now :justasplanned: does seem rather likely.

[Vic Van Meter]

Meh, I'm not mad at them at all.  The server is just too large for live events to include everyone, but not including everyone is favoritism, wah wah, lemme hand out towelettes here.  So there likely will never be one that *isn't a clusterfuck*  *ever again*.

When the party gets too large, people make circles.  That's just the nature of people.

IC of course I would translate this into a reason to not trust CONCORD.

Because this:

Ren Karetta > I immediately regret my actions.

That's my Empire talking..

I guess since I'm a part time player, I have a completely different frame of reference.  Seeing the description of how it went down, I can't help but conclude that CCP just wasn't thinking.  There's a hundred different ways of doing this even that leaves the nullsec corps to their show but lets the more PVE-centric hisec people have their event.  They just didn't.

I honestly get why everyone on the forums seems to be pissed.  If another company had screwed the pooch that catastrophically in their own game, they'd be rightly ribbed.  I mean, CCP could have done this any number of ways with even a bit of extra effort, but it comes off as if they don't entirely understand how their own game works.

I really don't think they should try to carry out events anymore until they have it properly thought out.  It might help if they could draw it out so that it includes the whole playerbase, maybe running randomly spawning drone areas like an incursion in otherwise safe space for a few weeks.  That way, everyone can experience it a bit.  In a universe as vast as EVE's, where most of the actual "space" is an empty void, you'd think this wouldn't be that difficult.

[Silas Vitalia]

They might have dev-sploded the structures if the pirate fleets were taken out.


Still...

That happened exactly liked it looked like it was going to.

[Silas Vitalia]

I'll also add that I have a fundamental issue with pre-determined live event conclusions.

Because wtf is the point if no side has a chance to effect what happens?

[Karmilla Strife]

I'm not 100% sure it was pre-determined. People are complaining that the structures weren't able to be destroyed by players shooting it. If it had been the other way around they would have complained just as loud if a null-bloc dropped supers and killed the event in seconds. But Eve players can't help but complain about anything and everything.

[Vikarion]

I'll also add that I have a fundamental issue with pre-determined live event conclusions.

Because wtf is the point if no side has a chance to effect what happens?

The point is to fuck over the Caldari, obviously. 

I seem to recall someone being very vociferous about rigged contests earlier. I think you told him to stop whining.

[Vic Van Meter]

I'll also add that I have a fundamental issue with pre-determined live event conclusions.

Because wtf is the point if no side has a chance to effect what happens?

Entertainment?  If people wanted something that could go either way as long as they have enough ships to affect the outcome, they'd join a 0.0 alliance.  It's fairly obvious that if they hemmorage subscriptions, it's not going to be the nullsec alliance people where this is sort of what they do.

Massive events run by the developers should be a bit like running a book RP campaign.  There can be variation in how you do things and it has to be challenging, but you've got to keep the story moving or it all devolves into a muddy puddle of nothing.

If that's not what they were going for, they probably just shouldn't run events.  It looks like players are better at doing that right now anyway.

[Vikarion]

It looks like players are better at doing that right now anyway.

Not exactly the highest bar, though, is it?

[Vic Van Meter]

It looks like players are better at doing that right now anyway.

Not exactly the highest bar, though, is it?

It makes it all the more sad.

[Silas Vitalia]

They can get to the same point but have many branching 'paths' much like many modern RPG games.     

The ironic part is that it wouldn't change the mechanics or the participants at all, just the locations, the fluff, and which actors the devs use.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Had already decided I wasn't going because ::work for living::.

That said, even if I'd still been a professional layabout, I wouldn't have touched this one with a bargepole. EVERY LE that's hit null or low has been a clusterfuck. This one was actually telegraphed days in advance and aimed at hot interface systems. It was always going to be a slaughter.

[Louella Dougans]

There was a previous issue regarding "railroaded" events, e.g. that Republic tribal dignitaries escort thing.

There were concerns raised about how that could have affected the storyline and so on.

Others raised concerns about the players inability to affect the storyline, because of the use of invulnerable (effectively- due to QA modules) npc ships.

There were other concerns about the nature of live events as "loot pinatas".

And people raised concerns about "Dev favouritism" or "Dev corruption". Claiming that the Devs "wanted people to fail" or whatever.



Has anything changed ?

If the NPC structures were in fact invulnerable, and could only be destroyed through GM action then... all the planning of any fleets, any skill shown by any pilots involved, all of that does not matter.

The event boils down to "A GM pressed a button and we lost", or "A GM pressed a button and we won".

If one side attacked with rookieships, if they met the criteria for the button being pressed, then they won. Regardless of the actions of the defenders.

If the defenders defended with rookieships and shuttles, if the criteria for pushing the button was not met, then they won, regardless of the actions of the attackers.

And because the event pivots on whether or not a single GM pressed a button, then the whole issue about transparency and integrity of CCP staff comes right back. It is not right to put a single person into that situation, where thousands of disgruntled players can complain about it.

It only leads to alienation of the players and devs. In defence of their employee, CCP will ignore or deflect criticism, and again, nothing changes.

 

[Gaven Lok ri]

They might have dev-sploded the structures if the pirate fleets were taken out.

If Esna is right about the targets not being damageable (I didn't make it to the site to have a first hand on this) then it was totally railroaded (or just screwed up by incompetence) and this can't be the out.

The dev actors specifically ordered the fleet to shoot the target and ignore the defense fleet up until almost no one was left on the field.

[Vincent Pryce]

As a pirate sider who was there, here are my few thoughts.

It was a complete clusterfuck. Even before the amarr/caldari fleet arrived to Doril gates the "pirate defenders" we're quite happily killing each other as they were waiting for the main course. I ended up as Tornado food myself. There was no organization on the pirate side either. To add insult to injury for the empire folks the easiest way to Curse has a bunch of nulsec alliances living in it who camp the system almost daily. So when CCP announces "Free buffet" on news feed all of them are going to log in.

I went anyway since, at least I did want to try to put my space action inline with the RP even though I knew exactly what I was walking into - gotta keep stacking that Angel Cred, yo. As far as I can tell I was the only Angel Cartel loyalist wizard hatter in Utopia and RMOC-W amidst bunch of nulseccers.

Only thing that really makes me annoyed is the fact that the game was rigged from the start. It didn't matter for the empire forces if they broke through or not if the objectives could not actually be destroyed, and that frankly sucks and makes the whole event pointless. Not to mention it makes it a hollow victory, if you can even call it that.

On the other hand. Yay, Angel Cartel event. And ICly "Yay, Angel Cartel wins".