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[Anslol]

Yeah. Picture having to be an FC and take on another fleet. You have to manage 200+ ships. Now picture that those ships don't warp when you say align, don't get lost, don't go off on their own, and simply shut up and follow orders.

At least, that's how I see it.

[Morwen Lagann]

Yeah. Picture having to be an FC and take on another fleet. You have to manage 200+ ships. Now picture that those ships don't warp when you say align, don't get lost, don't go off on their own, and simply shut up and follow orders.

At least, that's how I see it.

About the only thing FCing in EVE and RTS games have in common in my experience, is that unless you actually start giving orders and telling people what to do, units do absolutely fuck-all.

[Anslol]

The orders over comms are the clicks in the RTS, the map is the grid you fight on, the units need to be made or purchased or replaced, resources need to be managed, etc. I dunno, when I zoom out in some fights with brackets, it just reminds me of an RTS in combination with all the other stuff I mentioned.

[Morwen Lagann]

Right, I got that they look visually similar, I was talking gameplay.

Unless the FC gives orders, or the player makes the clicks, the units will do absolutely nothing.

That's the one thing the two activities really have in common - in an RTS, when you give a unit an order, they will follow that order with mindless focus, taking the shortest possible route to the objective, and often giving zero fucks if they get attacked on the way.

Your fleetmates, on the other hand, have human beings behind them, and will follow those orders in their own way - they may not take the shortest route to the target. They may say "no, that's not a great idea, I'll do it this way". They might even go "lol you're retarded" and try taking over the fleet.

Or they'll AWOX you.

None of that is something you'll see in RTS games on a regular basis.

[Lyn Farel]

Ugh, visually I couldn't find more opposed visuals... Homeworld had majesty and every shot fired gave me thrills never matched by any other game... Especially not overview exercises, cumbersome space combat and spreadsheets in space. :/

[Katrina Oniseki]

I don't think you really need to convince Anslo that EVE is not an RTS game, Morlag. >_>

[Anslol]

I was drawing a similarity to make a laugh.

You killed the laugh Moarlag.

I will now call you Morwen Buzzkillington.

 

[Morwen Lagann]

Apparently Lyn would've done it for me if I hadn't, so.

[Anslol]

Lyn Funkyl

[Seriphyn]

Ugh, visually I couldn't find more opposed visuals... Homeworld had majesty and every shot fired gave me thrills never matched by any other game... Especially not overview exercises, cumbersome space combat and spreadsheets in space. :/

Add to that having to be zoomed out so your ship isn't even visible in PvP.

[Lyn Farel]

Apparently Lyn would've done it for me if I hadn't, so.

:highfive:

[Karmilla Strife]

Took me a day to respond, but Pieter my point wasn't that I've paid $5000 for vaporware. I've enjoyed my time with Eve thoroughly, it's a (mostly) stable product, and it's kept me entertained for longer than any other MMO or video game, ever. I think I've gotten my money's worth. My point is, after $5000, I'm still entertained by flying a condor. (or in my case dramiel)

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Oh please, like if publishers were parsing the actual code or contents of the games. That's not what they are interested in. The only thing you have to do is to show them shiney powerpoints and videos to reassure them that your game is on the right track at each milestone. Producers are producers, they are no game devs and usually know next to nothing at game development, minor a few, scarce people. What they know very well, is the game market and industry. I may not have yet worked on 6-7 titles but I still see how it works (be it with Focus or Ubisoft). Maybe different experiences though vOv

On another note, though, I do not like either the lack of control on crowdsourced games, but eventually it boils down to the same thing : you have a high rate of failure with them, but you also have a high rate of being canned with a producer. I  don't trust game studios alone and I don't trust producers more. I actually trust more internal producers working in the studios insides.


____________________________


More on the subject though, as long as most of the ships and actual content of the game does not need to be paid 100€ more than the base price of Star Citizen for every ship and gun, or that you need to pay unexpected money more than the base price of the game, i'm happy. As long as i'm not paying for a blatant pay to win (like Eve btw), i'm ok.

I'm still happy to donate a few pennies to projects I find worth it, like Star Citizen, and that's a bet and investment, nothing more, nothing less.

Lynn, even five years ago the External Producers that our Publisher sent around were often embedded into the team for months at a time. Sure that ran the risk of them going native (we had a habit of hiring the good ones away to be Internal Producers) but it also meant that they absolutely knew what assets were at which stage of development/integration. As a former External Producer I read your assessment with facepalms. As a former Internal Producer, the idea of working with such gullible External Producers made me salivate and reminisce about the good times.

Different experiences for sure. I never worked with Ubisoft or Focus. If the industry is anything like it was in my day, it still has the Achilles heel of still not having standardised management practices and processes. That was starting to drive me nuts, when I left, that half of what was learned over a project was forgotten and that almost every project started with a meeting to define what exactly this 'wheel' thingy was, anyway.

I'd rather have a Publisher fronting the cash. Despite having been burned by some REALLY bad Publishers (still looking at YOU Vivendi!) in my time. The idea of a million people throwing dollars at a Dev team like a Stripper during Fleet Week in NYC still weirds me out as a way to get funding.

[Lyn Farel]

To be honest i'm rather surprised that some producers would work differently. What I see at work is the exact same thing that we were warned or told by teachers and professionals back at uni. A lot of them coming from Montreal or other video games hubs.

And I really, really loathe to have someone telling me that something would be better in pink rather than in blue. It happens already all the time with gamedesigners and other people for whom it's not even their work, and still insist that you change it because it would be "better" according to them.

Well now, imagine what it starts to turn into with an external producer not paid by the studio that starts to do the same, but with the money and decisional power behind... At least we are rather lucky since our publisher let us mostly alone and trusts us, a bit like Ubi did before for RUSE from what ive heard (though Ubi retained more control).

[Victoria Stecker]

I imagine that if all producers were terrible, the gaming industry would have collapsed some time ago. None the less, after some recent events (looking at you, GBX and EA), there's a very strong "fuck producers" vibe in the community. We'll see how the crowdfunding thing turns out in the long run. There have been a few recently that failed miserably, and a few that have been very successful, both on the small and not-so-small scales.