Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Katrina Oniseki]

Just pointing out. Falcon is the person who permabanned the complainer, back when he was a player and Summit Moderator.

[Steffanie Saissore]

Warning: Having only been around for 4 months, I don't know the history and such

That said, I've been reading the different posts here and had been watching the conversation in OOC yesterday when the word came down about the channels.  EVE is the only MMO I have played where there are actor characters active in the game and that can interact with players. When I heard about this, I thought "wow, finally an MMO where the dev/creative team behind the game is involved with the player community and can give a certain validation for player-character actions".  To me, along with the far more immersive and active rp-community made me change my mind from just doing the 10-day trial to actually subscribing.

As time progressed and seeing next to nothing of actor characters, I wondered what was needed to get their attention; not that I had (or have any) plans that would require their attendance, but was curious as to where they were.  Then when the two actors showed up to the PIE event, I thought that was really cool.  Here was proof that the company was in a sense giving the community a sense of relevance and importance and it was a player(s) driven event...not a scripted live event done by the company.  To me that was awesome.

Then yesterday happened.  From my perspective the announcement smacked of a 'crap, we opened up Pandora's box and now we need to put all this shit back in' kind of move...in other words, CCP should have had these channels a lot sooner.  The fact that it feels like it just came out of the blue is a real disservice to everyone in the game.  To handle it the way that it was is also a disservice to those who have worked (without compensation by CCP) to provide a fair and safe environment for players to meet and RP.  Just seemed like CCP started to look at their own policies and procedures and realized they were in violation of their own rules of conduct and did a knee-jerk reaction to fix the issue, only to cause a mess by how they went about handling the whole thing.

For me, my RP was not dependent upon the actors, but the whole 'actors will now only exist and interact in these specific open to everyone channels is a poor move on CCP's part.  It now prevents player-driven events from gaining a sense of world legitimacy by having an actor show up or respond to the event because these actors have to be accessible at all times by all players.  That really is a load of crock. I don't need to have access to the Empire actors...I really don't.  Now, it is nice that there is a place I can go to to interact with an Empire actor, but now I cannot hold an event and invite an actor to it since my event is not open to everyone for one reason or another (be it 'location', character's faction/loyalties, or the fact that Steff might just not want them there).

I don't see too many players wanting to host events open to all the people all the time which means that the events with actors are potentially going to be scripted live events put on by CCP, which feels like a case of fencing off the building of the universe and being a part of things and feeling like we are having some impact upon the way New Eden evolves.

Again, is it absolutely necessary to have the blessing of CCP to make our RP meaningful?  Not really, but with the pulling back of their devs/actors the motivation to try to put on a truly impressive RP event by a player (or group of players) is no longer there. Some might still be willing to put together grand events...but I guess time will tell.

And I think this is what ultimately bothers me about the supposed MMORPG...they don't exist at all.  WoW, Guild Wars, EVE, and all the others are really just MMOG (massive-multiplayer online games).  They claim to be RPGs cause you get to play a character and interact with other people. Great, but if the RP isn't helping drive the world, what's the point?  On top of that, and I've seen this in WoW and I get the feeling here in EVE too, the company and the dev team ends up having to appease an extremely vocal minority of players who are more often than not just there for the pvp and nothing more.  Awesome concepts and stories and developments get pushed aside and trashed for 'balancing and nerfing and simplifying things' for the sake of one group of players.  Unfortunately, it is true that the pvpers and grinders out-number the RPers by a large amount, but it would be nice if these companies that create MMORPGs maybe gave the RPers something every once in awhile.

Okay, I think I'm finished. I could ramble on, but I think we're all pretty much on the same page at the end of the day.

The creation of the tickets aren't the issue, the way in which it was announced and handled in a public forum (or in this case a chatroom) is the issue.  Anyway, I hope it works out for them.

[Wanoah]

There is a certain irony about CCP folks being in any way critical of moderation. Maybe, just maybe, they have got their house in order over on eve-o, I wouldn't know, but certainly for the first five years they did a terrible job of moderating their forums. I felt truly sorry for some of the volunteer mods that so clearly wanted to make a go of things but were railroaded into endless nitpicking. It was the forum equivalent of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

[Esna Pitoojee]

If you tl;dr'ed through Steffanie's post, stop right here and go back and read it, because there is so much win in this post.

[Lyn Farel]

What annoys me the most is not the personal failings of individuals, either moderators for whatever reason or Falcon for being unable to restrain himself from that kind of unprofessional remarks.

What annoys me is that personal interaction between actors and players and actor involvement with our characters was the main catalyst behind ACTIVE roleplaying, like Arek Jalaan, etc. Our characters were part of the world. By suppressing that, they get back to the old Sansha Upliftings / Colelie / Caldari Prime / etc pattern where players are just spectators and PASSIVE consumers. An old recurring complaint RPers have had against CCP since after Aurora has always been "they create the illusion that we do RP with consequences, but actually players have no way to impact on the NPC universe at all, only CCP decides and we feel totally disconnected from the world we are supposed to live in : they keep a big gap/wall between their NPC world and us."

Well then, with that new policy, we sure are going to RP with a wall.

Us mod team people are displaying a high level of butthurt because the stated REASONS from this from the mouth of a ccp employee is that we are fail moderators and that our channel is shit and we ban people for no reason willy nilly and that we 'can't get along' with everyone. 

Wait... he didn't say that. No need to over exaggerate. I still agree with you but still...

[Arista Shahni]

As usual, Stef is much better at putting things than I am.  I blame inane lack of sleep but the truth is my brain started thinkg into it from a "generic game Staff" POV and the "I'd fucking fire ppl who did to my payer/players, arr" bell started ringing..

But "what she said DAMNIT."

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

What annoys me the most is not the personal failings of individuals, either moderators for whatever reason or Falcon for being unable to restrain himself from that kind of unprofessional remarks.

What annoys me is that personal interaction between actors and players and actor involvement with our characters was the main catalyst behind ACTIVE roleplaying, like Arek Jalaan, etc. Our characters were part of the world. By suppressing that, they get back to the old Sansha Upliftings / Colelie / Caldari Prime / etc pattern where players are just spectators and PASSIVE consumers. An old recurring complaint RPers have had against CCP since after Aurora has always been "they create the illusion that we do RP with consequences, but actually players have no way to impact on the NPC universe at all, only CCP decides and we feel totally disconnected from the world we are supposed to live in : they keep a big gap/wall between their NPC world and us."

Well then, with that new policy, we sure are going to RP with a wall.

Us mod team people are displaying a high level of butthurt because the stated REASONS from this from the mouth of a ccp employee is that we are fail moderators and that our channel is shit and we ban people for no reason willy nilly and that we 'can't get along' with everyone. 

Wait... he didn't say that. No need to over exaggerate. I still agree with you but still...

[ 2013.09.12 17:43:17 ] CCP Falcon > If people hadn't got buttmad and started banning people from "their channels", then we wouldn't have had to withdraw from them, and create two so that we can speak with everyone.

[ 2013.09.12 17:43:17 ] CCP Falcon > If people hadn't got buttmad and started banning people from "their channels", then we wouldn't have had to withdraw from them, and create two so that we can speak with everyone.
 [ 2013.09.12 17:43:54 ] CCP Falcon > So, what will happen now, is that people can either be civil, get along nice, and act like human beings
  [ 2013.09.12 17:45:32 ] CCP Falcon > What we need
[ 2013.09.12 17:46:08 ] CCP Falcon > Is a channel where we can talk to people without people being locked out of the conversation because of stupid, childish feuds between people who either can't hold their mouths or need to grow thicker skin.
 [ 2013.09.12 17:46:58 ] CCP Falcon > So, if you don't want to use these channels, then don't bother, feel free to leave them.

http://pastebin.com/7KD0HBQp for full context.  I figured its okay to post it since it came from a public channel.

[Reyd Karris]

stupid, childish feuds between people who either can't hold their mouths or need to grow thicker skin.

My god, this is just epic PR fail. My 15 bucks can go elsewhere for the next few months without a second thought.

Well done Falcon.

[Techie Kanenald]

[ 2013.09.12 17:46:08 ] CCP Falcon > Is a channel where we can talk to people without people being locked out of the conversation because of stupid, childish feuds between people who either can't hold their mouths or need to grow thicker skin.

Did Falcon just tell me to HTFU?

.....damn....Yup....I'm gonna have to think long and hard about what CCP is telling me now, and whether I want to support that kind of thinking.

[Nmaro Makari]

Logs from "Out Of Character" 13/09/2013

CCP Falcon Came online to talk and answered questions from Players.

[spoiler]         
---------------------------------------------------------------

  Channel ID:      2100276594
  Channel Name:    Out Of Character
  Listener:        N'maro Makari
  Session started: 2013.09.13 19:53:34
---------------------------------------------------------------

 [ 2013.09.13 19:53:34 ] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to Out Of Character!This channel is for out of character discussion relating to Live Events and Roleplay in EVE and DUST.Out of Character is owned and operated by the EVE Illuminati.CCP AbraxasCCP AffinityCCP Delegate ZeroCCP EterneCCP FalconCCP GnautonCCP GoliathCCP LogibroLive Events TwitterWe also operate a counterpart channel with the name "Intergalactic Summit" which is strictly for in-character interaction only and will be where our live event actors are stationed when present in game. Please be aware that this channel is CCP owned. All rules and policies regarding player conduct in EVE Online apply here.Any out of character chat should be brought to this channel.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:53:37 ] Jasmin Soulscream > And the bit about Telling the mods they did a shit job
 [ 2013.09.13 19:53:37 ] Sofia Roseburn > Yeah, you're missing the point
 [ 2013.09.13 19:53:37 ] Shiori Shaishi > Hey, validation by CCP actors is like chocolate-flavored crack to RPers.
  [ 2013.09.13 19:54:00 ] CCP Falcon > Jasmin Soulscream - I was one of those moderators, before I came to CCP.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:54:13 ] Lasairiona Raske > I knew it!
 [ 2013.09.13 19:54:19 ] orion scimatarii > he is a spaiii
 [ 2013.09.13 19:54:24 ] orion scimatarii > SPAAAAIIIIII
 [ 2013.09.13 19:54:29 ] Arista Shahni > Unless the logs shown were incorrect. I an concerned about the precedent being set in regards to CCP employees pointing out players of EVE as Bad People(tm).
 [ 2013.09.13 19:54:52 ] Arista Shahni > In, basically, public.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:54:52 ] Jasmin Soulscream > I know thats common knowledge Yet the mods still think you told them there doing shit
 [ 2013.09.13 19:55:04 ] Jasmin Soulscream > I mean thats what most of the posts in that thread are mad about
 [ 2013.09.13 19:55:09 ] orion scimatarii > because the vibe is given that most of us want to back stab each other
 [ 2013.09.13 19:55:22 ] N'maro Makari > So, what did I miss when I ctd?
[ 2013.09.13 19:55:53 ]  CCP Falcon > Well, they can feel that way.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:56:12 ] CCP Falcon > I can lay out the facts here now, and you can post them to backstage if you like, I don't really mind.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:56:12 ] Arista Shahni > Well, your saying it in Blue Text -- states it is true
 [ 2013.09.13 19:56:28 ] Jasmin Soulscream > Please do
 [ 2013.09.13 19:56:29 ] Arista Shahni > You are basically paying open the contents of a petition
 [ 2013.09.13 19:56:34 ] Arista Shahni > Which last I checked, isn't done.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:56:40 ] Arista Shahni > laying*
 [ 2013.09.13 19:56:45 ] Arista Shahni > If this has changed, do let me know.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:56:48 ] CCP Falcon > So, to put it simply.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:56:51 ] Arista Shahni > No sarcasm intended
 [ 2013.09.13 19:56:55 ] Lasairiona Raske > I think it's bad if you name names.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:57:02 ] Arista Shahni > Whynot
 [ 2013.09.13 19:57:04 ] CCP Falcon > I'm not going to name names at all.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:57:10 ] Sofia Roseburn > Doesn't matter
 [ 2013.09.13 19:57:16 ] Lasairiona Raske > No, I meant that petition rules are broken if you name names
 [ 2013.09.13 19:57:17 ] Arista Shahni > Saying "the mods" when they are clearly labelled in the channle in question is naming names.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:57:32 ] Arista Shahni > EVE playeers are hnot   high school children for the most part.
[ 2013.09.13 19:58:06 ] CCP Falcon > So, we were contacted by a number of players who were annoyed with the fact that they could not have direct in character interaction with CCP event actors, because they were locked out of The Summit.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:58:30 ] Kasuko Merin > The Summit was hardly the only place for that, though.
[ 2013.09.13 19:58:30 ] CCP Falcon > There were also complaints that they couldn't speak with us as developers either, because they were shut out of OOC.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:58:32 ] Arista Shahni > Then this is because the private owners of the Summit chose to lock them out and you chose to be there.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:58:34 ] orion scimatarii > then its their fault for acting like prats Falcon
 [ 2013.09.13 19:58:42 ] Jasmin Soulscream > What about Live Events?
 [ 2013.09.13 19:58:49 ] Jasmin Soulscream > Did they even try to talk to you there
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:04 ] Ayallah > Hi new channel o/
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:07 ] CCP Falcon > So, you can flood the channel with questions, or you can wait for me to say what I have to say and get our position accross?
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:17 ] Leopold Caine > Heya Ayallah o/
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:19 ] Jasmin Soulscream > Fair one sorry
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:24 ] Sofia Roseburn > Your position is already stated
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:24 ] CCP Falcon > Save the questions until after i'm done, and I'll answer them
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:34 ] Sofia Roseburn > You're making a patchwork attempt at damage control
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:35 ] CCP Falcon > ans, the comments.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:50 ] CCP Falcon > Okay, then I won't bother, I'm sorry I've wasted your time.
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:59 ] Jasmin Soulscream > No ignore Soffles hes a twat
 [ 2013.09.13 19:59:59 ] orion scimatarii > no no please, carry on
 [ 2013.09.13 20:00:00 ] Arista Shahni > Sofia does nto speak for all of us.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:00:02 ] Jasmin Soulscream > D:
 [ 2013.09.13 20:00:03 ] Arista Shahni > That is against TOS.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:00:04 ] Shiori Shaishi > Tch, provoke the man after he's done speaking.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:00:24 ] Ayallah > gf
 [ 2013.09.13 20:00:30 ] Ayallah > ..........)o)
 [ 2013.09.13 20:00:33 ] CCP Falcon > If it's seen as "damage control" rather than the fact i spent 10 years as part of the RP community and I'm concerned about behavior and people being locked out, then okay.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:00:36 ] Arista Shahni > AGAIN. tHERE ARE 23 PEOPLE IN HERE.  yOU CAN NOREATC TO ONE.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:00:51 ] Arista Shahni > (my stupid miscapsing as usual)
 [ 2013.09.13 20:01:02 ] N'maro Makari > May we have some quiet, please.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:01:05 ] CCP Falcon > I'll hold my hands up, and let you guys get on with it. Sorry guys, I'll see you in local IC.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:01:11 ] Sofia Roseburn > You're speaking as a CCP employee.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:01:20 ] Sofia Roseburn > Not as a member of the RP community.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:01:26 ] Jasmin Soulscream > Oh my gawd are you having a hissy fit because of one person
 [ 2013.09.13 20:01:28 ] Jasmin Soulscream > :/
 [ 2013.09.13 20:01:30 ] Arista Shahni > If you inisit but tI consider this an "official stance" rgardless if your prior experience
 [ 2013.09.13 20:01:50 ] CCP Falcon > No, I'm speaking as a CCP Employee who has a vested interest in the RP community, and a lot of ties to it.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:02:13 ] N'maro Makari > I'd like to read what CCP Falcon has to say.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:02:22 ] Ayallah > ^
 [ 2013.09.13 20:02:28 ] Sofia Roseburn > Not sure why you're burning all your bridges
 [ 2013.09.13 20:02:31 ] Arista Shahni > I want to speak to a CCP employee who can answer me and, may apologies, not get angry because on person out of 21 others besides me and you are angry.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:02:42 ] Arista Shahni > Sorry, 31.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:02:47 ] CCP Falcon > And no, I'm not having a hissy fit, and I'm not angry at all
 [ 2013.09.13 20:02:58 ] CCP Falcon > If I was angry, and didn't think it was worth it, I'd not be here
 [ 2013.09.13 20:02:58 ] N'maro Makari > Please, stop typing so we may read what CCP Falcon is saying.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:03:03 ] Jasmin Soulscream > Then Ignore Soffles and carry on explaining what you where going to say
 [ 2013.09.13 20:03:06 ] Arista Shahni > Then again, Sofia is not a representative of all of us.
[ 2013.09.13 20:03:14 ] CCP Falcon > So let's put this simply.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:03:53 ] CCP Falcon > So, like I said, we were contacted by a number of players who were annoyed with the fact that they could not have direct in character interaction with CCP event actors, because they were locked out of The Summit.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:04:09 ] CCP Falcon > We also got complaints that they couldn't speak with us as developers either, because they were shut out of OOC.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:04:38 ] CCP Falcon > Now, there is "Live Events" but it's generally packed, and gets flooded. We have presence there, but in the same respect, we're barely heard in there because of the sheer number of players there.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:04:53 ] CCP Falcon > Sure, we're also in local, but the same thing happens there.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:05:40 ] CCP Falcon > The problem we have, is that if we stay in The Summit and OOC, we're locking people out from sitting down, with a small member count in a channel like this, and having a civil, straightforward  discussion with us, without the flooding.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:06:07 ] N'maro Makari > CCP Falcon, may I please ask a question?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:06:20 ] CCP Falcon > As has  been pointed out, we're CCPers, and we can't do that, because there's inferred bias toward the people that are in that channel, if people complain.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:06:23 ] CCP Falcon > Which they have.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:06:37 ] CCP Falcon > Therefore, we have to now stick  to channels that are completely open, we have no other choice.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:06:58 ] Jasmin Soulscream > So why cant you been in this channel and other player channels?
[2013.09.13 20:08:03 ] CCP Falcon > Because we've been asked to create a place where everyone can reach us, one single place where all players can interact with us, rather than a convoluted mess of channels where for one, XYZ are allowed in, for another ABFXY are allowed in, etc
 [ 2013.09.13 20:08:18 ] Arista Shahni > I have a few question/stataements to make.  1) I understand the official reason s for doing this, but it was not passed of in an 'official' way.  I hope do yodo realise that those hwo have *not* known of your lengthy player connection to the community
 [ 2013.09.13 20:08:47 ] Jasmin Soulscream > I get that So why did you have to leave all other channels why cant you be in both your offical channels where everyone can talk to you and the player channels
 [ 2013.09.13 20:08:53 ] CCP Falcon > Because then we get complaints that "they said something relevant to my RP that was in a channel I couldn't see, because X person banned me from it"
 [ 2013.09.13 20:09:15 ] Arista Shahni > is not statuc.  2) will those who feel this is wonrg have a chance of being as objectively heard in a petition as those who made statement? 3) were the statments you made investigated and backed up with prood before madepublicly for everyone to see in
 [ 2013.09.13 20:09:23 ] Arista Shahni > regards to unfair/biased banning?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:09:41 ] Diana Kim > /emote peeks in
 [ 2013.09.13 20:09:46 ] Diana Kim > /emote looks through fingers
 [ 2013.09.13 20:09:49 ] CCP Falcon > As I've said, we've been asked to pull out of the player owned channels in question.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:09:50 ] Diana Kim > /emote peeks out
 [ 2013.09.13 20:10:03 ] Jasmin Soulscream > Wait who asked you
 [ 2013.09.13 20:10:08 ] Jasmin Soulscream > THe people who complained?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:10:13 ] N'maro Makari > Don't ask.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:10:20 ] Arista Shahni > Asking
 [ 2013.09.13 20:10:25 ] Arista Shahni > If part of the dirt is visible
 [ 2013.09.13 20:10:26 ] Ayallah > /emote tackles Diaa
 [ 2013.09.13 20:10:27 ] Arista Shahni > What the poiont now.\
 [ 2013.09.13 20:10:31 ] Ayallah > *Diana
 [ 2013.09.13 20:10:42 ] Sofia Roseburn > If you'd been asked to pull out from the player owned channels then why didn't you announce these channels via devblog to increase visibility?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:10:45 ] Arista Shahni > Saying a player "a valued mmeber of the EVE community ity" is this and that"
 [ 2013.09.13 20:11:01 ] Sofia Roseburn > If, as you say, this is for the entirely of the community then you should announce it as such
 [ 2013.09.13 20:11:07 ] Arista Shahni > another comment "not exatly naming names" isnt a breach of whatever rule that was done under
 [ 2013.09.13 20:11:15 ] Diana Kim > halp?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:11:25 ] CCP Falcon > Also for reference, when I was speaking about "biased" moderation, I'm speaking about the  complaints we received.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:11:39 ] Morwen Lagann > I don't think that all of those 'complaints' were actually investigated.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:11:53 ] Angelique Duchemin > I can understand that. by participating in a channel you are sanctioning it. Even if you don't want to. Private players can then restrict the access to CCP staff based on who they want or do not want in the channel. Having an official channel is fair.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:11:54 ] CCP Falcon > In the same respect, we aren't putting out any live events blogs, or anything related to them because right now we're not in a position to do so.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:12:04 ] Arista Shahni > Were they investigated.  Petition complaints are normally handles in such a way that theplayerbase is not made aware of the esults, or even if those resuts are visible,the reason are not flatly stated
 [ 2013.09.13 20:12:08 ] CCP Falcon > [20:11:53] Angelique Duchemin > I can understand that. by participating in a channel you are sanctioning it. Even if you don't want to.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:12:12 ] CCP Falcon > This is exactly the point.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:12:32 ] Morwen Lagann > And that's a fine point. But the way the point was handled was piss-poor, and that's putting it nicely.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:12:35 ] CCP Falcon > Arista Shahni - That's not something that I do, I don't investigate, I get handed a ruling, and that's that. Investigation is out of my hands.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:12:43 ] Sofia Roseburn > Speaking of complaints, are all of the complaints in regards to large amounts of racism in this channel yesterday being investigated in the same manner?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:12:44 ] Arista Shahni > This woul dbe like like saying to someone I asked to be banned, in a public space, "People aid you shoul dbe banned os...."
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:02 ] Shiori Shaishi > ..aaand anything that smells like devs "in the pocket" of a group of players that is in any way exclusive is a looming PR disaster?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:10 ] Lasairiona Raske > FFS, are people STILL moaning about the "Mr. Coon" shit?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:11 ] Arista Shahni > That is my only issue
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:23 ] Arista Shahni > So: it appears youre not in the pocket of the mods -- but the pockets of the complainers
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:24 ] Zanzibar Heroshima > Yes lasa
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:29 ] Arista Shahni > SoI suspect have been gloating
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:29 ] Zanzibar Heroshima > because its fucking racist
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:32 ] Jasmin Soulscream > YEs cause its Racist
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:34 ] Arista Shahni > Who I*
[ 2013.09.13 20:13:35 ] CCP Falcon > Sofia Roseburn - That depends on whether they were petitioned, they'll be taken care of if needed.
[ 2013.09.13 20:13:37 ] Jasmin Soulscream > How is that hard for you to get
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:44 ] Zanzibar Heroshima > And if you could stop using it, that'd be great
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:48 ] Zanzibar Heroshima > kthx
 [ 2013.09.13 20:13:56 ] Lasairiona Raske > /emote rolls her eyes
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:05 ] Lasairiona Raske > /emote goes back to her corner
[ 2013.09.13 20:14:06 ] CCP Falcon > I'm not a fan of the term either to be honest.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:16 ] Arista Shahni > Because info was dumped "publicly" every pettiion submitted flatly states "you will not leearn the results if this investigation"
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:24 ] Sofia Roseburn > I assume in the same vein the alleged issues with access to the summit were adressed by the petition system.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:25 ] Zanzibar Heroshima > Yeah, because its a raial slur
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:26 ] Syenna Celeste > It's in reference to a raccoon that actually exists.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:31 ] DeT Resprox > Hey Hey OOC o/
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:34 ] Zanzibar Heroshima > I'd be frankly stunned if you were Falcon
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:34 ] Arista Shahni > That is my major issue permanently
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:37 ] N'maro Makari > Getting a little bit too fast again.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:40 ] CCP Falcon > I think it's disgraceful and very derogatory, but that's my personal opinion
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:45 ] N'maro Makari > I'm struggling to read.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:48 ] Arista Shahni > There are people who are publiclaly smeared because BLue Letters said they're meanies. :/
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:50 ] Jasmin Soulscream > It is also a Racist term towards black people
 [ 2013.09.13 20:14:55 ] Leopold Caine > It will not be mention again and I apologize for any inconveniences it might have caused for being interpreted out of context.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:15:17 ] Arista Shahni > True or not - it isi no one elses business
 [ 2013.09.13 20:15:20 ] Morwen Lagann > You and sincere apologies go hand in hand like republicans and democrats in the House.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:15:25 ] Morwen Lagann > just sayin', Leo
 [ 2013.09.13 20:15:39 ] Lasairiona Raske > Y'all are crazy. Just sayin'
 [ 2013.09.13 20:15:42 ] Arista Shahni > Especially from the mouth of an offical employee
 [ 2013.09.13 20:15:43 ] CCP Falcon > So let me be pretty direct here in clearing up the rumor mill:
 [ 2013.09.13 20:16:12 ] Leopold Caine > I suppose you're entitled to your own opinion, Morwen.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:16:28 ] Morwen Lagann > It's not really just my own.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:16:34 ] CCP Falcon > Firstly, If I offended anyone by quoting what we were given, or giving my opinion that moderation is at time heavy handed, then I apologize, that wasn't the intention. - I'm also intended to my opinion.
[ 2013.09.13 20:17:07 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > dear gods, is this *still* going on?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:17:20 ] Arista Shahni > IDK how CCP works, but ok.  I don't know if you're apologizing to everyone who coul dhave been offended by it here though, if or the apology will stick.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:17:25 ] Arista Shahni > But thankyou.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:17:49 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > (sorry, go on)
 [ 2013.09.13 20:17:59 ] Arista Shahni > Cause that is a horrifying precedent to start in a real business arrangement for asn MO
 [ 2013.09.13 20:18:09 ] Arista Shahni > (yeh sry i never shut up you k know this)
 [ 2013.09.13 20:18:14 ] N'maro Makari > Quiet please.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:18:29 ] N'maro Makari > Thank you
 [ 2013.09.13 20:19:11 ] Sofia Roseburn > I think it'd be beneficial for the members of the community that are not present at the moment if you presented this as a public statement on the main website.
[ 2013.09.13 20:19:23 ] CCP Falcon > Secondly, we're unsure as to where live events are going at present, and what support we'll have for them in future, so now's not the time for the RP community to get even angrier and more segregated.
[ 2013.09.13 20:19:43 ] DeT Resprox > personally, i'm so happy to see live events after stressing about it since the old event creators stopped a few years back (i even had my original char DeT Polaris banned cos of the name before the group) - i are old
 [ 2013.09.13 20:19:49 ] DeT Resprox > and any trolls can do one
 [ 2013.09.13 20:20:46 ] N'maro Makari > Will Dev Actors still respond to ingame mail?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:20:59 ] CCP Falcon > These two channels will stay open. If people want to use them to speak with us then they can. If they  want to stick to their own channels with their own select groups of friends, then they're free to do so, and can come to the public channels...
 [ 2013.09.13 20:21:06 ] CCP Falcon > ...if they want to speak to us.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:21:21 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > luckily there's no reason why we cannot be on both/all chans?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:21:34 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > I never got this part where people get upset because someone else also has an RP channel
 [ 2013.09.13 20:21:45 ] Arista Shahni > ^
 [ 2013.09.13 20:21:48 ] Leopold Caine > Me neither.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:22:06 ] Sofia Roseburn > This really isn't about there being another RP channel.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:22:14 ] N'maro Makari > Will Dev actors still respond to mails sent ingame?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:22:15 ] Sofia Roseburn > It's about the gross mis-management of the transition.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:22:16 ] CCP Falcon > As for the question regarding ingame mails, yes, event actors will still answer them.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:22:23 ] DeT Resprox > \o/
 [ 2013.09.13 20:22:25 ] N'maro Makari > Thank you.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:22:26 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > also, RSS & Fleet have pretty much stopped talking to me, but given the content of my rambling letters to them I suspect that cannot be taken as an indicator of what the event staff are doing OOC
 [ 2013.09.13 20:22:43 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > sofia, there IS NO transition
 [ 2013.09.13 20:22:49 ] N'maro Makari > Are there any criteria for a response?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:22:53 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > the other channels are still there
 [ 2013.09.13 20:23:01 ] N'maro Makari > Say, for example
 [ 2013.09.13 20:23:03 ] CCP Falcon > At present though, as I've said, we're on a Haitus with live events, the team is not together, so responses will take time.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:23:10 ] Jasmin Soulscream > So just to make sure Say PIE did an event like they did before And ask for the Amarr actor to turn up are you able to turn up or aare you staying only in these 2 channels
 [ 2013.09.13 20:23:15 ] N'maro Makari > Are there certain things LE team will not respond to?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:23:20 ] Sofia Roseburn > Of course there is a transition Elsebeth
 [ 2013.09.13 20:23:31 ] Jasmin Soulscream > PIE is just an example
 [ 2013.09.13 20:23:36 ] Sofia Roseburn > The minute you state that there is something official and there is something unofficial people change focus
 [ 2013.09.13 20:23:55 ] Arista Shahni > I can understand that things could have ben handled strangely because of an impression that 'everyone knows who I am'.  But for the reconrd, not everyone does.  For example only vauge hints were given to me to not causeyou trouble, Falcon, in regards
 [ 2013.09.13 20:23:56 ] Ayallah > Is there a timeline on the haitus?
[ 2013.09.13 20:23:58 ] CCP Falcon > Elsebeth, the fact that a few people are mad is because I badly worded a line I said yesterday which was percieved as an attack on the moderators of the channels, which I've apologized for.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:24:10 ] Morwen Lagann > That's not the only reason people are mad.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:24:18 ] Arista Shahni > to anomnity.  Please keep this in mind and remember that new people can and do exist and can and will take bluetext as gospel.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:24:22 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > Falcon, I know
 [ 2013.09.13 20:24:26 ] CCP Falcon > Jasmin Soulscream - That's to be decided, we're not sure what support we'll have for live events in future, we'll see
 [ 2013.09.13 20:24:34 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > but my point is that this channel is not a "transition" from another player run channel, as such
[ 2013.09.13 20:24:38 ] CCP Falcon > I can't make any promises right now, there's a lot of talking to do.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:24:46 ] Sofia Roseburn > Whilst I can give props to CCP wanting to draw more attention to live events, and to allow for more accessibility interacting with the community is the main goal
 [ 2013.09.13 20:24:49 ] Morwen Lagann > There's a lot more to it than that, but you're not exactly allowed to say anything that would 'fix' any of that.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:25:01 ] Leopold Caine > I believe it's a transition to a more transparent and less biased way of running things, and overall an improvement.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:25:06 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > the player-ran channels are there
 [ 2013.09.13 20:25:07 ] Morwen Lagann > Considering it involves the 'sources' of those petitions and the actual legitimacy of their complaints.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:25:13 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > you don't have to transition if you don't like
 [ 2013.09.13 20:25:23 ] CCP Falcon > It's basically a case of business as usual for The Summit, and OOC, there's no difference for you guys.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:25:28 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > yes, that
 [ 2013.09.13 20:25:36 ] Leopold Caine > /emote pretty much has the same view as Elsebeth there
 [ 2013.09.13 20:25:42 ] Arista Shahni > Asked that mOrwen, so, I"ll say, please do find even a few moments to find a way, however vauge, of investigating the claims.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:25:43 ] Sofia Roseburn > There's a difference (read lack) of moderation
 [ 2013.09.13 20:25:56 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > if someone was in the impression that OOC was THE OOC CHANNEL because OMGCCP was there occasionally, get the eff over yourselves
 [ 2013.09.13 20:26:10 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > ... sorry. language
 [ 2013.09.13 20:26:12 ] CCP Falcon > If you don't want people in your channels, then that's your call, if you don't like the lack of moderation in the public channels, you have the choice to leave them.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:26:21 ] Arista Shahni > Elsbeth, it very easily will lend that impresion to a new person who worships the ground GMs walk on.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:26:30 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > too bad
 [ 2013.09.13 20:26:36 ] Jocca Quinn > may be just me but I'm more bothered by the vibe I'm getting here that Live Events may be getting put on the back burner (again) than the issue of these new channels
 [ 2013.09.13 20:26:38 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > OOC and The Summit are player-ran channels
 [ 2013.09.13 20:26:51 ] Arista Shahni > Not toobad, it is osmething a company needs to think of, now matter how HTFU individual EVE players are
 [ 2013.09.13 20:26:55 ] Ayallah > er.. us newbies don't really know who these people are / why they are importatnt
 [ 2013.09.13 20:26:57 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > it was cool that CCP Falcon was there, and I liked it, but they STILL WERE PLAYER-RUN CHANNELS
 [ 2013.09.13 20:27:08 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > and they still are
 [ 2013.09.13 20:27:12 ] Arista Shahni > I didnt know that the fiorst few months
 [ 2013.09.13 20:27:22 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > that's not your fault, but neither is it CCP's
 [ 2013.09.13 20:27:22 ] Arista Shahni > Its not stated the day youre invited
 [ 2013.09.13 20:27:23 ] Saede Riordan > CATS
 [ 2013.09.13 20:27:27 ] Ayallah > I thought they were fancy dust mercs
 [ 2013.09.13 20:27:37 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon >
 [ 2013.09.13 20:27:44 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > anyhow
 [ 2013.09.13 20:27:46 ] N'maro Makari > CCP Falcon
 [ 2013.09.13 20:27:49 ] CCP Falcon > Yeah, we really need to change our text color :S
 [ 2013.09.13 20:28:04 ] N'maro Makari > Do you have a contingency plan if this channel becomes like a Live Events 2.0
 [ 2013.09.13 20:28:08 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > my point still is that people who think this channel is "the new OOC" need to get over themselves
 [ 2013.09.13 20:28:11 ] N'maro Makari > I.e. too many voices.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:28:17 ] N'maro Makari > ?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:28:23 ] Sofia Roseburn > Irony overload
 [ 2013.09.13 20:28:28 ] Niraia > reasons aside, i think it sucks to be mad at people for no longer doing voluntary things like being in your channel
 [ 2013.09.13 20:28:48 ] Arista Shahni > I'm not mad about that.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:28:56 ] Leopold Caine > Pretty much.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:29:06 ] CCP Falcon > then we have the ability to place it in moderated mode during live events, and let people interact with us in local while we put important dialogue in a seperate place
 [ 2013.09.13 20:29:10 ] CCP Falcon > so that its' not missed
 [ 2013.09.13 20:29:12 ] Arista Shahni > I'm concerned that 'you will not learn the results of your petition' has been violated.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:29:25 ] N'maro Makari > Where might important dialogue go?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:29:34 ] N'maro Makari > Assuming it's IC event dialogue.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:29:35 ] Arista Shahni > The "mods" pointed out, are clearly names in the MOTD
 [ 2013.09.13 20:29:36 ] CCP Falcon > in Intergalactic Summit, if it's IC
 [ 2013.09.13 20:29:48 ] Arista Shahni > And coul dhave been contacted privately and yelled at
 [ 2013.09.13 20:29:48 ] N'maro Makari > Ah, of course. THank you again.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:29:49 ] Leopold Caine > That makes sense.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:30:06 ] Arista Shahni > So - still yelling, but not in front of a silent audience
 [ 2013.09.13 20:30:34 ] CCP Falcon > Arista Shahni - We do not interfere with how players moderate their own channels. They own them, we won't dictate to them that they should change how they're moderating, likewise with the corp forums hosted on the official eve forums site.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:30:40 ] CCP Falcon > That's just the way it is.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:30:48 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > and that's the way it should be
 [ 2013.09.13 20:30:54 ] Leopold Caine > ^
[ 2013.09.13 20:31:12 ] CCP Falcon > All we can do is move away from the channels, if we're presented with complaints that people can't speak with us.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:31:14 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > I would be SERIOUSLY pissed off if CCP had started to tell players how they can run player-ran channels
 [ 2013.09.13 20:31:27 ] CCP Falcon > Imagine me storming into say, The Skyhook
 [ 2013.09.13 20:31:40 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > OOC was never meant to be "the official CCP contact channel", either
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:00 ] Arista Shahni > Correct, Elsbeth
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:10 ] CCP Falcon > and saying, no, now the walls are pink and there's discoballs, you will only play 80's ballads, and btw, this is now a Sani Sabik Brothel
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:16 ] Windle Poons > /emote hands Falcon a placard. It reads "Down with this sort of thing" reverse "Careful now!"
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:17 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > it became the inofficial one, because of Falcon (sorry could not resist), but that does not give it the status of THE CHANNEL once it stops working (see part: get over yourselves)
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:22 ] Morwen Lagann > Except, you basically said people are doing it wrong. vov
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:32 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > ni
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:34 ] Arista Shahni > But publicly laying blame onthe moderators, as paying players and 'valued members of the community who's voices are as equal to anyone who petitions' .... :/
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:34 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > no*
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:38 ] Leopold Caine > It would be unprofessional to use a player owned channel as 'the official CCP contact channel'.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:38 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > they are not saying people are doing it wrong
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:39 ] N'maro Makari > Will CCP actors be able to attend player RP events that guarantee total open attendence?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:43 ] Morwen Lagann > He did, Else.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:48 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > they are saying "the moderation means we cannot use this channel for our purposes"
 [ 2013.09.13 20:32:58 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > he misphrased one part and he has apologized for that
 [ 2013.09.13 20:33:02 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > so can we, like, get over that too?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:33:16 ] Morwen Lagann > I find it ludicrous that people should have to tolerate the precense of racist, hate-mongering people who threaten physical harm on other players and their families IRL
 [ 2013.09.13 20:33:18 ] Arista Shahni > It is hard for people when the cops put them with a nightstick
 [ 2013.09.13 20:33:24 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > and CCP actors, I suspect, can still talk to players on closed venues too
 [ 2013.09.13 20:33:27 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > just not ONLY in them
 [ 2013.09.13 20:33:29 ] Morwen Lagann > And that those people should have any say in anything.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:33:30 ] Arista Shahni > hit*
 [ 2013.09.13 20:33:54 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > morwen, I think you miss the point
 [ 2013.09.13 20:33:57 ] CCP Falcon > Morwen, if you don't want to be in channels with people you don't like, then you're free to leave them, or ban them if you're a channel operator, that's your call.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:05 ] CCP Falcon > But we have to be open to everyone
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:12 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > morwen, the point is that *CCP* wants to control who they exclude, not have it controlled by a player
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:17 ] N'maro Makari > So will CCP actors be able to visit any player chat channels, RP or otherwise?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:18 ] CCP Falcon > regardless of how they may behave, or be percieved to be behaving
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:23 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > which I frankly think is seriously fair enough
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:38 ] Leopold Caine > It would be unfair any other way, tbh.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:38 ] CCP Falcon > N'maro Makari - As I've said, we don't know what the status with live events is at present or how much support we'll have in future.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:40 ] Sofia Roseburn > So CCP is now advocating behavious like Morwen has just described?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:42 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > even if the players did a wonderful job
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:43 ] Arista Shahni > You seem alot calmer about it today Falcon and this is likely how it should have been presented from ay 1.. it is up to those who have been hurt by what amounts to a public shaming to deal with it  :/
 [ 2013.09.13 20:34:53 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > ... dear gods I give up
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:00 ] Arista Shahni > I dont
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:01 ] CCP Falcon > Sofia Roseburn - No, now you're just putting words in my mouth and making wild assumptions.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:04 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > the behaviours Morwen describes are an EULA violation
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:06 ] Arista Shahni > Im NOT being a bitch
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:08 ] Leopold Caine > Sofia, don't put words in people's mouth, it's... yeah.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:10 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > so no, CCP is not tolerating them
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:12 ] Sofia Roseburn > No, that's literally what you just said
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:15 ] Morwen Lagann > The way this was done was what's stupid. There's a difference between, say, posting a news thing saying "hey, we're setting up some official channels for such-and-such purpose, come use them", than barging into the already-existing channels as you did.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:17 ] Sofia Roseburn > You said, if you don't like it, leave
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:20 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > but they want to control the exclusion of that themselves
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:27 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > not have it controlled by a player
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:33 ] CCP Falcon > [20:33:57] CCP Falcon > Morwen, if you don't want to be in channels with people you don't like, then you're free to leave them, or ban them if you're a channel operator, that's your call.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:38 ] CCP Falcon > I didn't sasy "just leave"
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:52 ] CCP Falcon > the option is also there to file a support ticket, like you would do in any other channel.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:35:59 ] Sofia Roseburn > Which has been done
[ 2013.09.13 20:36:00 ] CCP Falcon > if  you find someone offensive, or vulgar.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:36:14 ] Morwen Lagann > Except CCP policy is "fuck player-run channels, those aren't our problem", as I recall, from speaking to GMs.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:36:24 ] Sofia Roseburn > The inaction of the GM team in a CCP run channel less than a day after it has been created is pretty amazing
 [ 2013.09.13 20:36:27 ] Arista Shahni > So Falcon: when someoen makes a comment ina private channel, a ticket sticks?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:36:28 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > ...
 [ 2013.09.13 20:36:35 ] Arista Shahni > I have had experience that is does not.
[ 2013.09.13 20:36:38 ] CCP Falcon > which is why i said "or ban them if you're an operator"
 [ 2013.09.13 20:36:38 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > blink off
 [ 2013.09.13 20:36:39 ] Angelique Duchemin > CCP doesn't oppose player channels but they don't have to endorse individual channels either
 [ 2013.09.13 20:36:46 ] Morwen Lagann > I on the other hand have, Ari, which is amusing.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:36:47 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > courage, CCP Falcon
 [ 2013.09.13 20:37:03 ] Jasmin Soulscream > I dont think CCP are allowed to ignore people
 [ 2013.09.13 20:37:05 ] Jasmin Soulscream > So yeah
[ 2013.09.13 20:37:06 ] CCP Falcon > If you file a support ticket, then that's out of my hands, i'm not a GM, and it's useless to take chunks out of me if you  don't get the response you want.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:37:07 ] Jasmin Soulscream > :S
 [ 2013.09.13 20:37:13 ] Arista Shahni > I've seen GM warnings be reversed due to the channel location of the 'infraction'
 [ 2013.09.13 20:37:25 ] Arista Shahni > Noted Falcon
 [ 2013.09.13 20:37:46 ] Arista Shahni > I'm trying to not be a bitch but sadly you  show up in blue, so I have to see you as a voice of law, as it were. :/
 [ 2013.09.13 20:37:55 ] Arista Shahni > So I"ll be asking pointed questions
 [ 2013.09.13 20:37:55 ] Synthetic Cultist > if it's not one of the channels on the list, then... it's out of CCP's jurisdiction ?
[ 2013.09.13 20:38:00 ] CCP Falcon > Red is the voice of the law
 [ 2013.09.13 20:38:11 ] Arista Shahni > I have seen things.. .people would not believe...
 [ 2013.09.13 20:38:17 ] Arista Shahni > All I can ay on that
[ 2013.09.13 20:38:19 ] CCP Falcon > That's when you run away.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:38:28 ] Synthetic Cultist > i dunno, Arista, I can believe some weird things
 [ 2013.09.13 20:38:28 ] Leopold Caine > /emote gives Arista a white dove
 [ 2013.09.13 20:38:39 ] Morwen Lagann > I'm not taking chunks out of you for petitions gone wrong or right. I'm saying that if you're going to say "you can leave if you're a player, or ban if you're a mod" you are effectively saying "just leave, then" for the average person.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:38:50 ] Arista Shahni > I think it waas Falcon when I Explained Things
[ 2013.09.13 20:38:52 ] CCP Falcon > or complain to a moderator.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:39:03 ] Arista Shahni > But ... ok.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:39:05 ] Morwen Lagann > Because again, last time I checked, player channels are not supposed to be covered by any of this shit.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:39:06 ] Sofia Roseburn > I believe Morwen did
 [ 2013.09.13 20:39:34 ] Arista Shahni > I have to say it.  Id a cCP name says a mod is bad / ovezealous / biased
 [ 2013.09.13 20:39:52 ] Arista Shahni > Then... yes I know you apologized but not everyone who was THERE, is HERE
 [ 2013.09.13 20:40:06 ] Foley Jones > oh hai
 [ 2013.09.13 20:40:38 ] Leopold Caine > \o Foley
 [ 2013.09.13 20:40:44 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > what's wrong with saying "just leave if you don't like our channel"?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:40:58 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > I am confusered
 [ 2013.09.13 20:41:23 ] Arista Shahni > Elsbeth I know youre upse but it is the RP "divine" I thinkt hat has been establihed between not saying "HTFU", and this game being.. um/.. EVE.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:41:24 ] Morwen Lagann > What's wrong is the implication that players removing people who are, in effect, violating the TOS/EULA, is a bad thing.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:41:29 ] Leopold Caine > It's definitely better than banning people and restricting them access to RP content.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:41:34 ] Arista Shahni > divide*
 [ 2013.09.13 20:41:58 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > morwen, I think Falcon already said he did not mean to imply that, but meant that CCP wants the control on who is excluded from event staff control
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:07 ] Leopold Caine > Exactly.
[ 2013.09.13 20:42:07 ] CCP Falcon > No
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:10 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > or that's how I read it
[ 2013.09.13 20:42:12 ] CCP Falcon > The point is Elsebeth
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:17 ] Morwen Lagann > That's what he just implied a few minutes ago, Elsebeth.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:23 ] Arista Shahni > And yes there are things he may not be able to say, like, he could have broken coffee cups at some point and arrived at the keys angry as hell
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:25 ] orion scimatarii > No the point is SPAAARTAAA!
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:27 ] CCP Falcon > we don't want to exclude ANYONE.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:28 ] Naraish Adarn > falcon may i ask what happens if a player is "falsely" reported to GMs?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:32 ] Arista Shahni > But we cant or will never know this
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:37 ] Anatole Madullier > /emote bops Orion >  Behave.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:41 ] Morwen Lagann > It would have been better, and far more appropriate, to post a news item, instead of doing it this way.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:43 ] orion scimatarii > nevah!
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:53 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > CCP Falcon, I am afraid that is not possible
 [ 2013.09.13 20:42:53 ] CCP Falcon > Naraish Adarn - Not something I can comment on, I'm not a GM.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:43:01 ] Morwen Lagann > I personally do not give a shit about there being two new channels. I'll watch them and keep an eye on them as I would any other.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:43:15 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > CCP Falcon, if you include open homophobics, say, you are excluding homosexuals
 [ 2013.09.13 20:43:18 ] Arista Shahni > Well.  Proof I"m not mad *hugs Falcon* I feel pain, yus
 [ 2013.09.13 20:43:22 ] Morwen Lagann > I have severe disagreements with the extremely unprofessional way it was done.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:43:30 ] Arista Shahni > But yeh
 [ 2013.09.13 20:43:33 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > CCP Falcon, so I appreciate that you want to, but it is not possible
 [ 2013.09.13 20:43:50 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > World just does not work that way.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:44:08 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > If you include people who troll about RPers being lulz all the day, you exclude RPers.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:44:19 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > You might not *want* to, but you will.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:44:20 ] CCP Falcon > Elsebeth - As a bisexual guy who's had to deal with homophobics directly while out with a male partner, I find that as an argument rediculous, sorry. If people are abusive in game, file a support ticket, that's all I can say on it.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:44:36 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > so you *will* exclude people who are abusive?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:44:38 ] Synthetic Cultist > Falcon
 [ 2013.09.13 20:44:47 ] Arista Shahni > Yeh.. we're a shy bunch.. not everyone has your strength Falcon
 [ 2013.09.13 20:44:56 ] Synthetic Cultist > if someone makes a homophobic comment, in one of CCP's listed channels, then it's petitionable.
[ 2013.09.13 20:45:01 ] CCP Falcon > If people are abusive in our channels, they'll be taken care of appropriately, through the correct channels.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:08 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > that is not "including everyone", that is "including everyone who behaves, and we get to say what behaving is"
[ 2013.09.13 20:45:19 ] CCP Falcon > no, the EULA and TOS do.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:26 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > dearie
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:27 ] CCP Falcon > and the GM team are the ruling power on that, not us
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:30 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > to us you are CCP
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:32 ] Synthetic Cultist > If they make the same comment in a player channel, then... nobody cares, yes ? because that's not ccp's jurisdiction ?
[ 2013.09.13 20:45:34 ] CCP Falcon > That's just the way it is.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:35 ] Arista Shahni > Enough petitions make things happen in the way of gms, uually
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:36 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > and CCP says what EULA and TOS say
[ 2013.09.13 20:45:41 ] CCP Falcon > So
[ 2013.09.13 20:45:44 ] Arista Shahni > Which... yeah.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:45 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > so, yes, "you" get to say what behaving is
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:49 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > you as in CCP
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:52 ] Arista Shahni > Natural for all games, not saying specifically here
 [ 2013.09.13 20:45:55 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > hence, you are including everyone who behaves
 [ 2013.09.13 20:46:02 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > not *everyone*
 [ 2013.09.13 20:46:08 ] CCP Falcon > We're starting to get into talk about the EULA and TOS, which it's not my place to comment on
 [ 2013.09.13 20:46:15 ] Arista Shahni > Well, thats proper, but instead CCP wants to mod it
 [ 2013.09.13 20:46:18 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > you cannot avoid talking about them in this case
 [ 2013.09.13 20:46:27 ] CCP Falcon > Then the discussion is done. Sorry.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:46:30 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > because effectively, EULA and TOS are your moderation policy
[ 2013.09.13 20:46:42 ] CCP Falcon > I don't make the rules for EVE.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:46:52 ] CCP Falcon > Policy is dictated highter up than my paygrade.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:46:59 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > you don't need to say anything more than "EULA and TOS define who gets to be in, and I don't decide on what they say or how they are interpreted"
 [ 2013.09.13 20:47:02 ] Arista Shahni > I'll be honest,  In any other game, I"d be floored to speechlessness that anyone higher than a GM spent this much time talking about it
 [ 2013.09.13 20:47:07 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > but that is different from "we will include everyone"
 [ 2013.09.13 20:47:15 ] Arista Shahni > Other than a GM saying "Sorry my boss made a decision"
[ 2013.09.13 20:47:18 ] CCP Falcon > WOkay
 [ 2013.09.13 20:47:23 ] CCP Falcon > Lets put it this way.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:47:33 ] Arista Shahni > And I appreciate this.
[ 2013.09.13 20:47:36 ] CCP Falcon > We'll let everyone be a part of the channels who obeys the rules of EVE
 [ 2013.09.13 20:47:39 ] CCP Falcon > it's that simple.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:47:41 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > thanks
[ 2013.09.13 20:47:43 ] CCP Falcon > Done and dusted.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:47:48 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > that's more like it
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:10 ] CCP Falcon > In short
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:15 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > and yes, I know you meant that all the time, but you were not saying it, and people got worried that you (that's you as in "CCP as a whole") will actually let people be abusive
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:25 ] CCP Falcon > I want you guys all to be able to interact with event actors
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:26 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > is my interpretation of what happened
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:27 ] Shiori Shaishi > Speaking of the TOS/EULA and recent kerfuffles around it: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3611859#post3611859
[ 2013.09.13 20:48:32 ] CCP Falcon > I want to be able to come into EVE and chat.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:37 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > anyhow, I have RP to do
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:37 ] Shiori Shaishi > (attempt at comic interlude in the midst of drama.)
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:40 ] Arista Shahni > My alt will never scam you.  Promise.
[ 2013.09.13 20:48:43 ] CCP Falcon > I want to be able to interact with you guys, get feedback on events, etc etc
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:51 ] Arista Shahni > Same Else
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:55 ] Arista Shahni > im IN a scene >.>
 [ 2013.09.13 20:48:58 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > because someone (I *am* going to find out who) seems to have distributed logs from last night's corp chat among directors
 [ 2013.09.13 20:49:00 ] Arista Shahni > (being bad )
[ 2013.09.13 20:49:00 ] CCP Falcon > but I can't do that from a select voice of people in the community, where others are shut out.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:49:11 ] Arista Shahni > That is 000% acceotable Falcon
 [ 2013.09.13 20:49:12 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > and now they are making gentle noises about lines and outs
 [ 2013.09.13 20:49:15 ] Arista Shahni > erm
 [ 2013.09.13 20:49:17 ] Arista Shahni > 1000%
 [ 2013.09.13 20:49:26 ] Arista Shahni > /emote fights gnomes in keyboard
 [ 2013.09.13 20:49:34 ] Lasairiona Raske > /emote gives Arista a stick
[ 2013.09.13 20:49:35 ] CCP Falcon > I need to let everyone have their say, so, here are the two new  channels in which they can.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:49:40 ] Arista Shahni > ty Lasa
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:04 ] Arista Shahni > Falcon, I think the end  point is on some points, some people mayneed their birthday cake ending
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:08 ] Arista Shahni > If that reference makes sense
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:10 ] Arista Shahni > :/
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:15 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > I think we'll need to see what happens
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:16 ] Arista Shahni > k?
[ 2013.09.13 20:50:18 ] CCP Falcon > And yes, on reflection I made people a bit mad yesterday because I got jumped on by people immediately, and got defensive, which is a natural human reaction. Putting on blue text doesn't turn you into a super human.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:18 ] Arista Shahni > and not me
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:21 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > if people start leaving because other people are morons
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:32 ] Arista Shahni > I wish I knew that since 2011
[ 2013.09.13 20:50:35 ] CCP Falcon > For that I apologize.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:36 ] Arista Shahni > Id hae saved hair
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:44 ] Anatole Madullier > Does give you a funky red hawk though
[ 2013.09.13 20:50:51 ] CCP Falcon > I had that before
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:54 ] Shiori Shaishi > Things will settle into a new equilibrium soon enough, I expect.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:50:58 ] Arista Shahni > ^
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:01 ] Anatole Madullier > Shhhh, I'm trying to help here
[ 2013.09.13 20:51:02 ] CCP Falcon > Although, tbh I'm digging the new tats >_>
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:08 ] Arista Shahni > I posted this I hate the changhes to my FB status
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:10 ] Arista Shahni > ijs
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:13 ] Arista Shahni > (jkjkj)
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:14 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > we have new tats
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:15 ] Lasairiona Raske > Mine?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:19 ] Lasairiona Raske > The gif?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:23 ] Arista Shahni > nah im kidding LAsa, hehe
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:27 ] Lasairiona Raske > lol
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:33 ] Lasairiona Raske > I got in trouble for that >.<
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:37 ] Arista Shahni > Pfff.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:41 ] Arista Shahni > People are angreh
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:51 ] Lasairiona Raske > People thought I was being mean to Esna :-/
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:53 ] Arista Shahni > Rightly so imo.. but.. .. time will heal things
 [ 2013.09.13 20:51:55 ] Lasairiona Raske > Which is far from it.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:01 ] Lasairiona Raske > I ♥ Esnananaaa
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:10 ] Shiori Shaishi > Right now everyone's interpreting everything in the worst possible way. vOv
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:23 ] Synthetic Cultist > welcome to EVE, Shiori
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:29 ] Foley Jones > so im just a duster & im just going to watch dis
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:30 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > I thought I'm not?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:32 ] Arista Shahni > Falcon one of the major fears with new channels is a flood of trollish alliances psamming it with ASCII
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:37 ] Arista Shahni > etc
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:40 ] Arista Shahni > heres a few issues
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:44 ] Arista Shahni > theres*
[ 2013.09.13 20:52:48 ] CCP Falcon > Then stick to the old ones if that happens.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:57 ] Lasairiona Raske > /emote kills the gnomes in Arista's keyboard
 [ 2013.09.13 20:52:58 ] Arista Shahni > Ty hon
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:01 ] Shiori Shaishi > Yes, granted. A lot of people..? Hm.
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:03 ] CCP Falcon > If we're online and that happens, people will be dealt with according to the game rules
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:05 ] Lasairiona Raske > KEYBOARD GNOMES!
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:09 ] Arista Shahni > Srsly?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:14 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > CCP Falcon, maybe you could also say "if that happens and it starts to seem the channels are becoming unusable, we'll think if we have to change something"?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:14 ] Arista Shahni > Pwomise?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:21 ] Arista Shahni > (as well as one can pwomise)
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:26 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > because I sorta think you mean that too
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:32 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > you should hire me to do your PR for real
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:39 ] CCP Falcon > You think I want people coming in and being abusive during live events?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:42 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > I do a better job than any IC stuff I do corrently
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:52 ] Arista Shahni > How about during daily RP
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:53 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > CCP Falcon, no, which is why I think you should say so
 [ 2013.09.13 20:53:56 ] Arista Shahni > It happens *all day*
 [ 2013.09.13 20:54:05 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > has it happened here yet?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:54:11 ] Arista Shahni > I see Logi poor thing has been in channels all day
 [ 2013.09.13 20:54:13 ] Jasmin Soulscream > If there not being abusive and just spamming the channel will you do anything?
 [ 2013.09.13 20:54:15 ] DeT Resprox > you should get back to more RP Elsebeth, always enjoyed the old EM stuffs
[ 2013.09.13 20:54:15 ] CCP Falcon > Elsebeth... shush
 [ 2013.09.13 20:54:17 ] CCP Falcon > <3
[ 2013.09.13 20:54:17 ] Elsebeth Rhiannon > how about we worry when it does?
  [/spoiler]

Nothing of significance happens after this point.

[Lyn Farel]

[removed]

[Anabella Rella]

Meh, basically fuck CCP. Let them do as they will. If they continue to behave this way towards us RPers, some of their most loyal longtime subscribers, then it'll be their fault when we get fed up, vote with our wallets and head for other venues. They like to think they're the only game in town but, that's incorrect. There are alternatives around now and the competition will really heat up when some of the games in development now (Star Citizen, X3, etc.) go live.

I've been having a good time with a bunch of folks from Eve who've moved over to STO to start a "corporation" there. The longer I'm there (actually able to get out of my ship and interact with others without the use of Excel or Google Docs), the less inclined I am to even bother with Eve anymore. If not for the facts that I've had my character for so long and the friendships made in Eve I'd just unsub and leave. Things (game design and CCP's questionable decisions) are getting to the point of not being worth the frustration to me any longer.

[Silas Vitalia]

I don't think there's a big need for a public apology or any big gestures from devs on this, as was requested in that chatlog.  'Tis all good in the hood as they say.

I'm just.... well it's just awful sometimes when the worst sorts of internet people get what they want in the end and try to bring things down for others due to twisting a system towards their benefit, that's all.

It's people being rewarded for awful behavior that is what rubs me the wrong way.

ANYWAY Anabella I hope things do turn around for the better, and fast.


I don't know about the rest of you, but I got the distinct impression that we should be reading between the lines here and all is not well behind the scenes at CCP regarding staffing and resource allocation.

[Vaun Erryk]

I don't appreciate the solution to homophobia (as the specific example, but I suspect the same logic would apply to sexism, racism, &c) being a case of "HTFU and file a petition". Likewise, the tarring of mod decisions as 'stupid childish feuds' when many--if not all, I'm not involved in any of them--have been banning or muting disruptive people rubbed me up badly, but the former is what really, really fucks me off.

Ah well. There's a whole game outside those channels.

[Ollie]

To be honest, both of those logs make Falcon look quite reasonable in the face of less reasonable behaviour.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I got the distinct impression that we should be reading between the lines here and all is not well behind the scenes at CCP regarding staffing and resource allocation.

And yeah, this.