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[Anslol]

I agree with Ollie.

And Morwen, I do know. I just don't demonize in this situation and try to see it from an outside perspective. Despite how I come off, I am not a complete idiot.

He did wrong. Doing wrong to him doesn't make anything better. Might make you feel better, but it doesn't do any good in the long run. Hell look at this thread. That level of acidic hate is/was just not cool. And Ollie is right about Seri not being the only one. Hell I'm sure it's happened with me, I just simply don't give a damn about people's preconceived notions they have before even talking to me.

But still, it happens to others, and they care about it happening. I'm not saying everyone should feel sorry for the guy, but they shouldn't have piled on him like that. More importantly, the staff should have stopped it right out instead of joining the pile.

[Lyn Farel]

Sometimes this forum's rules protecting privacy of users in addition to the usual social standards are extremely frustrating. There is more going on than the case of someone making an unlikable character and then repeatedly complaining that nobody wants to RP with them to the point nobody wants to listen to it anymore, but only a handful of people can actually come out and spill the details without breaking the rules.

Then do it privately ? If I wanted to convince others of my point of view where sensible "shit" might break the rules, then I would do that instead.

The only thing you managed here was to post an inflammatory answer on the first thread in the middle of similar answers from others, and it did not even went into the detail you refer to...

Disclaimer : privately to involved people, like, you know, the people that do not understand or Seri's defenders, not randomly to newcomers that never asked for it...

And let's face it - it's not like Seriphyn's alone in this type of situation either. Most of us have seen others treated in a similar fashion through the years.

Yep. Had a few things like that when I was offline that got reported to me

[redacted]

Not the worst of these mind you. It's just an example, i'm not going to post the worst.

Most of the time if you start a debate or don't agree with the majority, you greatly increase the chances for people to start waging a popularity war against you, constructing a whole reputation around your OOC persona that most people that do not know you personally will eventually accept as a fact.

[Anslol]

+1 Lyn.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

There are certain meta-social rules that govern the interactions between people - I seem to remember having to make this point before in the IC/OOC corp theft thread.

The facts of the matter are that you are never interacting in a vacuum. Reputation doesn't work that way. When you get a reputation for a certain sort of behaviour it can be very difficult to get a reputation for anything else. Seriphyn has a reputation in certain quarters for certain sorts of behaviour - some merely whimsical and some fairly awful.

People ought to know that I don't generally let meta-reputation affect who I RP with. Several of the people I RP with have gotten a reputation for derpery - but I'm a strong believer in taking people as you find them. That said, I DO let meta-reputation colour my expectations of people, because I am human and that's what humans do - some of the people tarred with the derp brush have turned out to be awesome to RP with and some of them, not so much.

I would advise readers to PLEASE just try RPing with some of the people written off by the bittervets as derps. Just keep your head screwed on and don't let them drag your character into situations that you don't think are appropriate.

Sometimes reputation can lag behind a character. If you see a player is trying hard to rehabilitate their character - help out! It's not terribly hard to do so. People sometimes paint their characters into corners and they need help getting out of them. It's easy to sneer and wag your finger at them - but it's not fair. Some players, on the other hand, don't seem to want to be helped. They won't change the behaviour that the community finds awful and wants no part of.

If you find yourself in the position of having a character who is shunned for actual reasons and you don't want to change the reasons - then either own being shunned (as Vikarion and Anslo suggest) or else consider making some sweeping changes, perhaps even a new character.

Nobody is REQUIRED to accomodate your character. It is EVERY RP'ers right to RP in the manner they choose with the players/characters that they choose. Respect that.

[Anslol]

Also +1 Pieter. Changes must be addressed of course. But those changes must not be stomped on by reputation. If you see one trying to do something and change, don't spread around that they're still unworthy or some crap. If you don't like em, don't interact with em. But don't go telling every god damn new person not to RP with x y or z cause HURRHURR when said person's making a god damn effort. (Disclaimer; not talking about you here Pieter, just in general again. Please don't chin-beat me).

No one's required to RP with anyone. However, that doesn't mean one should prevent RP for that person and interdict it. Especially from individuals who should be curbing that kind of action or behavior, not adding to it.

(Also. Saucy Wench, Eve mail, you check. Nao.)

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Largely agree with you, Anslo - just thought I would add  the thought that I have my doubts about the existence of huge campaigns of propaganda aimed at destroying the reputation of unpopular players.

It's far more likely that players who have had a bad experience 'warn' their friends against interacting with the problem player and that it spreads organically from there.

[Anslol]

Said warning come from people who have 'weight' however. That is the problem though. These people are established as thought leaders and their word is taken as simple fact by the new comer. In marketing it's a common thing and taken advantage of on the regular.

However, it has its downsides. It works the same way for dealing a blow to an individual or a reputation. Yeah sure, no one can control what people say fully but still. If you don't have something nice to say etc (note, before someone screams hypocrite, i realize i RARELY ever say anything nice. I'm just making a point).

[Pieter Tuulinen]

I'm not sure why this is unfair? People who invest time and effort into a community naturally come to have more weight than those who don't. That weight does atrophy if it's not maintained, too.

But, and here's the thing, you don't have to be a sheeple. Take warnings about people as warnings, not as instructions to avoid.

Unless they ARE actually instructions to avoid. Pieter is now under orders never to be in the same room as Diana Kim because of past happenings.

[Anslol]

But she's so god damn huggabl-er yeah evil...yes...

But I see your point. It is, once again, not a majority fault thing. It's an even distribution of fault and 'wtf man.'

....man humans suck

[Lyn Farel]

Largely agree with you, Anslo - just thought I would add  the thought that I have my doubts about the existence of huge campaigns of propaganda aimed at destroying the reputation of unpopular players.

It's far more likely that players who have had a bad experience 'warn' their friends against interacting with the problem player and that it spreads organically from there.

Considering the various logs and proofs I have seen over time, I would say that it's more than just warning, but probably less than a fabled "huge campaign of propaganda". There is a bit of both.

[Anslol]

Can I get a copy over IG mail, Lyn? I'm interested.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Largely agree with you, Anslo - just thought I would add  the thought that I have my doubts about the existence of huge campaigns of propaganda aimed at destroying the reputation of unpopular players.

It's far more likely that players who have had a bad experience 'warn' their friends against interacting with the problem player and that it spreads organically from there.

Considering the various logs and proofs I have seen over time, I would say that it's more than just warning, but probably less than a fabled "huge campaign of propaganda". There is a bit of both.

Well, sucks if true. I make a point of not listening to those sorts of campaigns - and yet I don't think I've RPed too much with Lyn, either - bit of forum shenannigans but nothing more.

Consider this an official invitation to RP with Pieter.

[Anslol]

bowm chika bow wow.


.............................................DON'THURTMEDES\o\

[Lyn Farel]

Can I get a copy over IG mail, Lyn? I'm interested.

Maybe but i'm not sure if doing so will not be like starting to take part to the problem. Maybe I can erase the names though.

And also don't expect too many of them, I have only kept  a few that directly concerned me as free ammo just in case...

Largely agree with you, Anslo - just thought I would add  the thought that I have my doubts about the existence of huge campaigns of propaganda aimed at destroying the reputation of unpopular players.

It's far more likely that players who have had a bad experience 'warn' their friends against interacting with the problem player and that it spreads organically from there.

Considering the various logs and proofs I have seen over time, I would say that it's more than just warning, but probably less than a fabled "huge campaign of propaganda". There is a bit of both.

Well, sucks if true. I make a point of not listening to those sorts of campaigns - and yet I don't think I've RPed too much with Lyn, either - bit of forum shenannigans but nothing more.

Consider this an official invitation to RP with Pieter.

Oh in my case it's not like Seri, just snipes here and there. I don't especially feel threatened by that.

I meant more in general, I have seen that kind of things done a lot of times on the OOC channel, or other OOC places.

[Anslol]

I wouldn't be using it as ammo. I just like seeing evidence with my own eyes to confirm things. I'm not interested in plastering it everywhere. I'm just selfish and hoard all the information.

ALL OF IT. AAAAAAAAAAAALL.