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[Saede Riordan]

Re: Amarr

In the same vein, I see fighting/dueling to revolve more around 'house' allegiance. 

Montague Gang: There go of the house of Capulet! Er... There go of the house of Kador! Do you bite your thumb at me, Ser?

And the higher it goes up the chain, the more I imagine it resembles House conflicts of DUNE.  Ancient, noble, with bitter hatred lasting generations, and schemes spanning decades, children, marriages, and secrets.

Yeah this is definitely how I tend to picture the Empire.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

It seems to me that a lot of people here assume that duel always have to end with one participant dead. I really don't see how that needs to be the case, especially given historical evidence that there have been a lot of duels that didn't and never meant to. (I think someone mentioned Musashi already to point this out.)

As a Shugyosha Musashi Miyamoto was not above beating a man to death with a bit of wood to improve his reputation.

It was only in the later part of his duelling career when he began to take the time and effort to make sure his opponents weren't maimed or killed.

[Makkal]

It seems to me that a lot of people here assume that duel always have to end with one participant dead. I really don't see how that needs to be the case, especially given historical evidence that there have been a lot of duels that didn't and never meant to. (I think someone mentioned Musashi already to point this out.)

Agreed.

As a Shugyosha Musashi Miyamoto was not above beating a man to death with a bit of wood to improve his reputation.

It was only in the later part of his duelling career when he began to take the time and effort to make sure his opponents weren't maimed or killed.

When Musashi was 13, he killed an older boy with a quarterstaff. This was apparently his first duel.

He wasn't a Shugyosha until the age of 23 and the majority of his fights (like most duels at the time) didn't end in death. He used a bokken and his hits were known to break bones because it's no more a 'piece of wood' than a sword is a 'piece of metal.' There's no indication that he beat men to death for 'reputation;' it's just that when people fight duels with lethal weapons, sometimes deaths happen.

If you're talking about the fight with Sasaki Kojirō, that's widely acknowledged as the most difficult duel Musashi fought. He won by striking the man on the skull once, causing Sasaki to fall, and then hitting him on the side once, breaking a rib and puncturing the man's lung.

There's no evidence that this was intentional murder. Afterwards, Musashi made sure to never strike a potentially lethal blow, which suggests remorse on his part.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Whilst he wasn't on official pilgrimage until 1605, he had slaughtered the entire family responsible for the Yoshioka school of swordsmanship in Kyoto previous to this.

It's  said that whilst during his pilgrimage he didn't go out of his way to kill, he also didn't shrink from it, if his foe agreed beforehand. Also, his duel with Sasaki Kojiro took place at the END of this period, not at the beginning of it, so it couldn't have been the reason he preferred not to take his opponent's life.

In any case, winning duels was what made his name - whilst he was also reputedly a master carpenter and most definitely a great castle and garden designer, caligrapher, philosopher and painter - one has to wonder whether he would have been able to demonstrate these skills to the right people without his fame as a duellist and Shugyosha?

Ironically he had a very poor career as a soldier. He seems to have fought on the losing side of just about every battle he took part in!

[BloodBird]

The Intaki are a jungle people developing on what can only be described as a quasi death-world. You can only live in the extreme northern and southern ends of the planet because the further south/north you go the more painful and intolerable being alive gets, and once you get to far out you simply die from heat-stroke or the untamed jungle's flora and fauna. Resources are hard to extract safely and they are few and far between. There is not enough to go around. Clans of people band together for common protection and safely holding land, relying on each other to stay alive. Wars for resources and land are common and the Ida has not been conjured up from some philosopher's heat-stroked mind yet. Clans die out as they lose fights and people die to limited understanding of medicine.

Duel-based systems are nearly guaranteed to develop from this. First blood, to the death, whatever. The Clan whose champion wins keeps the spoils, the losers are losing, but they are alive. A step-up from being wiped out and having to fend for themselves in the death-sentence jungles on their own knowing their family and friends are dead by their enemy's hands.

Then the Ida is spread about and soon become VERY popular. Unify all Intaki into a peaceful co-existence where all the clans live in (relative) peace and trade with each other for what they need? Yes please. Will dueling be needed now? Maybe. The different groupings might still have things to disagree about and have fights over, even if they may not be quite as lethal now, if at all. Would this persist until the Gallente discover them and they realize there is a bigger universe beyond this green death-world? Maybe, as Gallente culture (very compatible with Ida-Influenced Intaki culture) becomes wide-spread and the ideals and ways start to meld together a number of hard-core traditionalists may well have kept numerous traditions alive, even in limited form.

Nothing says that the Intaki don't have groups that chronicle, practice and keep alive all the old traditions and ways that have existed for millenia, including centuries-old combat techniques and dueling practices as well as weapon handling and so on and so forth. (Unless ofc CCP come around one day and goes "NOPE this is how it goes")

Ofc, at this point even if your toon is a devoted 'traditionalist' and maintain dueling skills for lolz and tradition and could possibly maim/kill an opponent with an exotic and age-old melee-weapon, when, if ever, will you get the chance to put these skills to work? It's not like the Ida-loving Intaki sponsor blood-sports in the town squares now do they, and the Federation mostly outlaw the use on the Federal level.

Well, maybe if you become a Capsuleer, those folks are known to have pretty large egos and sometimes when slighted (or just for the hell of it) they ask for a face-to-face match and might even let you pick your weapon...

[Ava Starfire]

Ava will only duel someone who she feels is an equal; it is not noteworthy, it does not add "to her story" so to speak, to have a proper duel with someone who is of a lower status (Read: Who isnt Minmatar). She does not often even consider it, as Ava is not exactly the most imposing specimen in the flesh, but if she felt strongly wronged enough, she would issue such a challenge.

Kyllsa would quietly pay Krusual assassins to go take care of the offender(s) and not dirty her own hands. She would ONLY duel if it were to further her standing in the Clan or Tribe, period, and then only if she was reasonably sure she'd win.

[Safai]

Ava will only duel someone who she feels is an equal; it is not noteworthy, it does not add "to her story" so to speak, to have a proper duel with someone who is of a lower status (Read: Who isnt Minmatar). She does not often even consider it, as Ava is not exactly the most imposing specimen in the flesh, but if she felt strongly wronged enough, she would issue such a challenge.

Glad my toon was Minmatar when I challenged Ava to a duel back in the day

[Katrina Oniseki]

The Intaki are a jungle people developing on what can only be described as a quasi death-world. You can only live in the extreme northern and southern ends of the planet because the further south/north you go the more painful and intolerable being alive gets, and once you get to far out you simply die from heat-stroke or the untamed jungle's flora and fauna. Resources are hard to extract safely and they are few and far between. There is not enough to go around. Clans of people band together for common protection and safely holding land, relying on each other to stay alive. Wars for resources and land are common and the Ida has not been conjured up from some philosopher's heat-stroked mind yet. Clans die out as they lose fights and people die to limited understanding of medicine.

Duel-based systems are nearly guaranteed to develop from this. First blood, to the death, whatever. The Clan whose champion wins keeps the spoils, the losers are losing, but they are alive. A step-up from being wiped out and having to fend for themselves in the death-sentence jungles on their own knowing their family and friends are dead by their enemy's hands.

I don't understand how a hostile environment would encourage dueling between comrades. I think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread, but something along the lines of "Combat kills your enemies, dueling kill your allies."

It seems to me that dueling would weaken the 'family' unit, thus weakening the society as a whole.

[Louella Dougans]

The Intaki are a jungle people developing on what can only be described as a quasi death-world. You can only live in the extreme northern and southern ends of the planet because the further south/north you go the more painful and intolerable being alive gets, and once you get to far out you simply die from heat-stroke or the untamed jungle's flora and fauna. Resources are hard to extract safely and they are few and far between. There is not enough to go around. Clans of people band together for common protection and safely holding land, relying on each other to stay alive. Wars for resources and land are common and the Ida has not been conjured up from some philosopher's heat-stroked mind yet. Clans die out as they lose fights and people die to limited understanding of medicine.

Duel-based systems are nearly guaranteed to develop from this. First blood, to the death, whatever. The Clan whose champion wins keeps the spoils, the losers are losing, but they are alive. A step-up from being wiped out and having to fend for themselves in the death-sentence jungles on their own knowing their family and friends are dead by their enemy's hands.

I don't understand how a hostile environment would encourage dueling between comrades. I think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread, but something along the lines of "Combat kills your enemies, dueling kill your allies."

It seems to me that dueling would weaken the 'family' unit, thus weakening the society as a whole.

I think he means, instead of Clan A and Clan B, sending war parties to fight, with the inevitable result that both clans will lose some of the people they need just to survive, they have Clan A and Clan B each send out a champion, result being that fewer people die overall, and both clans are likely to survive, for a while.

Like those Measuring Beetles. Instead of fighting with each other over mates, exposing themselves to predators, and burning up valuable energy, the Measuring Beetles simply compare lengths, with the larger beetle winning.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I think he means, instead of Clan A and Clan B, sending war parties to fight, with the inevitable result that both clans will lose some of the people they need just to survive, they have Clan A and Clan B each send out a champion, result being that fewer people die overall, and both clans are likely to survive, for a while.

Like those Measuring Beetles. Instead of fighting with each other over mates, exposing themselves to predators, and burning up valuable energy, the Measuring Beetles simply compare lengths, with the larger beetle winning.

Right. Got it now.