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[DeadRow]

IIT we learn that Double Standards are a fact of life?

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

And... I suddenly find the Federation boring again.

I completely disagree. I find the new Federation to be a pretty interesting place.

If you read the news piece about the proposed ban on public executions, you can see it all:

• Bellaron obviously hopes to distance himself from Foiritan. Since Foiritan was popular among doves, could Bellaron be trying to position himself as a dovish alternative for a future presidential race? In retrospect it didn't work for him, but it's totally believable.
• Look at how heated the debate was. Obviously there were quite a few senators that agreed with the execution, otherwise it would simply be "senators issue condemnation of..."
• Senator Shu seems to approve of both the execution and its methods. Jin-Mei in general are a hawkish culture (as are the Mannar), so we're seeing some of the political lines that exist between different cultures within the Federation.
• Even Bellaron agrees that the execution itself was just. As an Intaki, this is telling. Bellaron is mainly just opposed to the spectacle itself (not surprising) and the method.
  
• The bill failed. At the end of the day, Bellaron wasn't able to get support for a simple ban on what we would call cruel and unusual punishment. This, more than anything, highlights the difference between the Federation and ourselves.

[Lyn Farel]

Call me cynical, but I believe that our own IRL society could have gotten behind such things as well.

Broken off from the Caldari thread that was broken off from the Alignment thread.

When characters criticize the Federation, they sometimes bring up the execution of Anvent Eturrer. The Gallente make a public spectacle of the event; he's dies when a crowd of millions scream at him, causing a machine to inject him with some chemical that sets him aflame as cameras roll and transmit the image to billions of people.

This is horrifying to our sensibilities and many Federation PCs express apologetic or disgusted reactions to the event when it's brought up. Yet the suggestion in the chronicle is that Gallente culture views this as fine and just.

I think there are a number of reasons for that, and they point to interesting and important parts of the Gallente viewpoint.

1. The Private Sphere is Not Inherently Valued - The idea that people have a right to privacy is based on the concept of the private sphere being a place of respect. When someone dies and a family lawyer asks the press to respect their privacy, we're dealing with a cultural ideal of the home as a sanctum. In some cultures, the hearth has literally been a sacred place set apart from daily life the same way a temple is set apart.

If you remove that mindset, the bubble collapses and things happen that are offensive to our sensibilities.  Public executions imply a certain loss of dignity - making a spectacle of it disrespects something fundamental to all humans.

But if you don't buy into the worth of the private sphere, as something sacred or special, someone dying as billions watch doesn't infringe on human dignity.

2. The Mob is Beautiful - Mobs tend to be viewed negatively for paradoxical reasons. Firstly, a mob lacks centralized control. It's a creature of emotion and chaos. As such, it's dangerous if you want an ordered, organized society. At the same time, the people in the mob have given up control on some level. They've surrendered themselves to the group and tends to be looked down on as it clashes with western philosophy's idealization of the individual.

I suspect in the Federation, a mob as seen as almost idealized form of human interactions. A bunch of individuals become swept up in their emotions and act without worry or restraint.

What do you think? Am I overstating the importance of the chronicle? Am I misinterpreting its meaning?

Yes, isn't it the conflict within the Federation ? How they believe to be above everything and everyone and yet the very people constituting the very essence of their democracy - they claim that the Federation IS the people - are rather capable of mob rule and barbaric acts to most New Eden civilized standards. The private sphere disappearing and the beauty of the Mob is a direct product of their society, and the interesting thing in the Fed is that while denying the loudest they can that it is part of their ideal, the inner beast is truly here and shows its ugly head at times.

The same way that the Amarr claim to have tons of moral highgrounds on everything, and yet are perfect hypocrites when it comes to their inner politics and the various deviances of their layered society.

Stop loving the traitor who betrayed for you, but hate the one who betrayed you, and condemn both equally.

This imperative presumes that one considers treason to be an objectively damnable act, in and of itself. I think there are very few people who hold that view.

Considering the dread amount of "race traitor" callings I read everywhere ICly, I would rather say that half the cluster still thinks in terms of race and holds the treason of one's own race as the tantamount of All The Most Horrible Things Of Humanity.

[Z.Sinraali]

Stop loving the traitor who betrayed for you, but hate the one who betrayed you, and condemn both equally.

This imperative presumes that one considers treason to be an objectively damnable act, in and of itself. I think there are very few people who hold that view.

Considering the dread amount of "race traitor" callings I read everywhere ICly, I would rather say that half the cluster still thinks in terms of race and holds the treason of one's own race as the tantamount of All The Most Horrible Things Of Humanity.

That's exactly the point. Treason against one's own race. (Which is to say the race of the accuser.) Not treason in and of itself. People aren't concerned about treason for treason's sake, they're concerned about having their own interests harmed. The core belief isn't about treason, it's about the advancement of their own in-group.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Stop loving the traitor who betrayed for you, but hate the one who betrayed you, and condemn both equally.

This imperative presumes that one considers treason to be an objectively damnable act, in and of itself. I think there are very few people who hold that view.

Considering the dread amount of "race traitor" callings I read everywhere ICly, I would rather say that half the cluster still thinks in terms of race and holds the treason of one's own race as the tantamount of All The Most Horrible Things Of Humanity.

That's exactly the point. Treason against one's own race. (Which is to say the race of the accuser.) Not treason in and of itself. People aren't concerned about treason for treason's sake, they're concerned about having their own interests harmed. The core belief isn't about treason, it's about the advancement of their own in-group.

Which makes sense, considering. Take a look at the EVElopedia article on Earth, especially the genetics and Earthology section. While there's growing support for a theory that all the races are related by a common planet of origin, it's not a commonly accepted theory in the least. Other popular theories include convergent evolution - where the races are all unique to their planets of origin, and simply evolved to be so similar because something made that the most likely direction for them to evolve.

We can read that and chuckle, but think about it in our character's terms: To many (if not most) people, their own race are the "humans", while everyone else are "vulcans" and "andorians" and "klingons" and what have you. Our characters are concerned about race because race is a far bigger distinction to them.

[Morwen Lagann]

We can read that and chuckle, but think about it in our character's terms: To many (if not most) people, their own race are the "humans", while everyone else are "vulcans" and "andorians" and "klingons" and what have you. Our characters are concerned about race because race is a far bigger distinction to them.

Funny you should use a Star Trek analogy, because there's a TNG episode that seems very relevant to mention here...