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[Druur Monakh]

Hmm, this is the kind of question where I want to say something, but don't know if I should since I'm not really RPing this kind of thing. But nonetheless I agree that subtlety is more effective than explicite details, because of the fascinating imagination humans have.

Just recently I got to write a story with a brief fight scene for my character (only to see it published two weeks early so I now have to adapt my other ongoings *grmbl*grmbl*), which I tried to restrict to only the two or three important highlights and outcomes, but not every single detail. In addition, while my character had to win for the story's sake, I made sure to add an observer noticing that she was inexperienced, and had luck and surprise on her side.

"Why would my capsuleer invest training time in Kung Fu, when she still needs to master her battleship?"

Certain Matari would, as well as old-fashioned Khanid Cyber Knights

" A "realistic movie" is still, by its very nature, very unrealistic."

Indeed. As a kid I made the mistake of lending the book "Krieg dem Krieg" from the library. The text was ignorable rah-rah-communism stuff (excusable seeing that is was printed during WW1, when people didn't know yet what communism would turn into), but the pictures... some of them made slasher movies look like wholesome family fun, because at core you know that they're just movies. Ever since, I have been rather ambivalent about the depiction of violence in fiction.

(If you never heard about the book, but are curious and think you can handle reality, here is probably the most iconic image: http://bit.ly/16R6yHy . The truly horrific part for me: this man lived. You have been warned.)

[Lyn Farel]

Personally I don't think it's so more violence being meaningless or bland when it's not gritty or comes from the gut, or neither when it's subtle or not.

Every situation and showcase of violence has its particular and suitable tone. Dandy and muffled violence in old classics like Indiana Jones or Star Wars ? Works well, these movies do not need more. Realistic ? Of course not, but that's not the point of these adventure movies in the first place. Gritty and repulsive violence like in Alien ? Works too, and any other kind of violence, not disgusting and frightening to the bones, would simply not have worked. Trash and gore like in Private Ryan, or emotional/psychological violence like in Shindler's List ? That's the point of the movie, it carries the underlying message. Blunt and nauseous violence like in Irreversible ? Not sure, maybe why the film is so controversial. Dandy spy violence ala Cold War in James Bond (the good ones) ? Works too, kind of similar to Indiana Jones in some way.

The crux of the matter is not that a kind of violence is acceptable or not, the point is more what kind of violence serves the message best, or what kind of violence we do expect from a certain genre. It is of course possible to create a shocking contrast by using some kind of violence opposed to what you would expect to see in a certain genre, but it requires subtlety and a real purpose.

[hellgremlin]

Personally I feel capsuleers shouldn't be ninjas in the first place. We spend much of our time floating in jelly and avoiding use of our long muscles.

I can see a capsuleer employing goons, or drones, to do the dirty work. I can't see one lasting in a protracted fistfight longer than 15 seconds, because that's about as long as an untrained individual's stamina lasts. There was a story I was planning ages ago, where my character gets quite embarrassingly beaten to death. Well, a death, anyway.

[Shiori]

It's a simple matter of efficiency. When you have more money than God, and you have to devote some non-zero time of your life to training for or actually flying ships, there are literally millions of people who are better than the in-person violencing than you are. Pay them some money to do it for you, and better, at no personal risk to you whatsoever. Win-win situation.

I can see bored and rich capsuleers doing some stuff, as a personality quirk, hobby, or an affectation, but I can't quite see any of the ones who are still thinking straight considering it as something they do. Generals don't fight on the front lines.

[Ember Vykos]

@ Kat: You were very good in the fight we had Simca and Kat do together, and gotta add that you make one hell of an announcer. 

I don't mind violence in RP though if all you see Character A do is violence then it gets a bit old after about the second or third time you see them. Pretty much all of the violence I do with my characters is in a story as opposed to actual RP, and the few times my characters have fought it was discussed earlier with the other characters involved. Not in great detail since I still enjoy it to be somewhat realistic and reactionary like a real fight, but winners/losers or just getting permission. Drop of the hat type fights are a bit different and I've never been in one, but always had the plans of opening an ooc convo with the other party to avoid godmodding should one ever occur.

I don't agree that capsuleers should hire goons to do their fighting for them. In some cases sure, but some also like to get their hands dirty or at the least don't mind. It's more fun for me to play as my character instead of playing as a group of thugs/soldiers. Ember helped storm a slavers den once and it was much more fun for me to have her there in a sniper nest taking her own shots than to play as a group of soldiers she hired to do the same thing. Most of my characters have a background that lends them to staying in peak physical shape even after they're implanted because I do enjoy the physical action type RP.

[Natalcya Katla]

The topic of capsuleers fighting out-of-pod has been touched on before. I fully agree with the statement that it's a bad idea as far as efficiency is concerned. Then again, not everything needs to be sensible. Now and again you do see powerful and privileged people engaging in completely unnecessary dangerous activities for the thrill of it. Capsuleers are eccentric enough that if some of them get a kick out of participating in sports fighting or even ground combat with a softlone in reserve in case things go to hell, I wouldn't consider that much of a stretch of the imagination.

It's not something any of my characters would involve themselves in, and pretty much all of them would roll their eyes at such behavior, but silly does not equal unrealistic.

[Aria Jenneth]

On out-of-pod fighting among capsuleers-- I don't mind the idea. Aria always kept herselves physically fit and in practice (albeit to a somewhat variable degree), but knew full well that it was a sort of extraneous activity.

Particularly for characters whose culture, upbringing, or personality puts a lot of value on physical ability for whatever reason, it makes sense.

I do, however, also think that (1) what Hellgremlin said is a solid "rule of thumb" and (2) no capsuleer (I can imagine exceptions, but they're pretty deep in Mary Sue/Gary Stu territory) should claim to be able to take a clone soldier in hand-to-hand, to say nothing of armed combat. That would be the equivalent of me hopping in an assault dropship and claiming to be able to shoot your Merlin down.

(For reference, said dropship is about the size of a light drone and nowhere near as zippy.)

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Shin is a perfect example of Hellgremlin's typical capsuleer. While she works out regularly and has lived for the past 19 years in what she would call a high gravity environment, she grew up in microgravity and will never be considered strong. The one time she has been involved in a real hand to hand fight, she was very nearly killed and survived only because her captor (hi, Graelyn!) is innately a decent man.

As a result of that, Shin is extraordinarily paranoid when she's out of pod. She carries a sophisticated derringer of SOE manufacture*, but her real defense is her extremely capable and very highly paid security retinue. They accompany her in her ship, in stations, and her permanent suites** include areas for their housing and use.

*Courtesy of a very odd reward from a SOE mission, which has since become a fixture of her outfit
**She maintains a number of identical suites in stations she frequents, each with an associated permanent security detatchment.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Esna's been involved in a few fights, some involved in private, 'relatively' pre-planned storylines and some more spontaneous. Some have gone well, others less so. Unfortunately, I've also run across the "let me set my infinite super-soldier guard swarm on you" kind of thing, as well as the (for lack of a better way to put it) 'godmod-fighter' situation - i.e., "I run across the room and start beating you bloody..." On the other hand, I've also had some VERY good experiences with combat RP - both private with a single other RPer involved in a storyline with Esna, and in more "public" venues.


Personally, I view Esna as initially the product of the Imperial Navy training facility he went to. As such, he was competent with a sidearm and has knowledge (but not experience) of use of other small arms - but nothing more; not an especially good shot, not very good at hand-to-hand, and frankly inferior to the average ground-soldier grunt.

What I DO think fits with Esna's view of and experience with ground combat is that he learns from every single engagement. When he succeeds, he examines what tools helped him succeed; when he fails, he looks at the reasons for his failure and attempts to patch them over. At times I worry this has resulted in as much an "unbeatable" character as someone who was "overpowered" from the start, as Esna prefers to walk into a situation with every conceivable angle already covered, and most characters (and players) I end up fighting aren't actually prepared for a character who has thought through and prepared for the common options.

In the event Esna does have to get into a larger-scale fight, though, he prefers to rely on gadgetry and technology to cover his back - he'll at times deploy in a superheavy combat armor* that is equal parts light tank and command-and-control center, albeit hideously slow and probably noticeable from miles away.

It's important to note, though, that this isn't so he can pull a "space marine" charge straight into enemy fire - it's meant to enhance his skills (command, tactician) and cover his weaknesses (physically weak, not well skilled at combat) merely so that he can survive a potential ambush or unexpected contact with enemy. His preferred method is literally to spray out with the built-in weapons while calling for backup.


* This suit was conceived before DUST was even a thing. I have considered updating to one of the DUST suits, but decided that the dozen or so suits in DUST do not represent every model of suit available and that Esna could find something more suited to his needs.

[Ember Vykos]

In the event Esna does have to get into a larger-scale fight, though, he prefers to rely on gadgetry and technology to cover his back - he'll at times deploy in a superheavy combat armor*


* This suit was conceived before DUST was even a thing. I have considered updating to one of the DUST suits, but decided that the dozen or so suits in DUST do not represent every model of suit available and that Esna could find something more suited to his needs.

Did he loan that to Ashar once? I seem to remember her in some sort of heavy armor at the slave thing that Ember and I believe you were at.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I don't think so; I'm pretty sure Ashar brought her own that time.

[Ghost Hunter]

In general I don't subscribe to anything other than pre-written combat, due to the very unstable ground it has in roleplay communities. The closest I've gotten is a roughing up of sorts in EVE, where Ghost was thrown and stucko'd to a wall in The Last Gate.

My biggest gripe with the concept of non pre-written combat is the amount of ego play involved. Unless it comes out to a stalemate, someone will lose, and I rarely encounter those who play that idea straight. Thus, it's more productive to simply have it pre-planned and hassle free than argue about it on the fly.

[Lithium Flower]

no capsuleer (I can imagine exceptions, but they're pretty deep in Mary Sue/Gary Stu territory) should claim to be able to take a clone soldier in hand-to-hand, to say nothing of armed combat. That would be the equivalent of me hopping in an assault dropship and claiming to be able to shoot your Merlin down.

(For reference, said dropship is about the size of a light drone and nowhere near as zippy.)

I have absolute contrast opinion: we all are mere humans and nothing is invincible. In the first place, main difference between clone soldier and capsuleer is consciousness transfer type. Although CCP depict them as 'superhumans' with extreme strength, during the fight (in dust) they look rather clumsy. I believe that properly trained in hand-to-hand combat capsuleer (or a baseliner) can take down clone soldier disregarding its strength and implants quite easily if will use proper techniques.

Well, and the main idea is: stuff happens. For example, a thoroughly trained and in a pretty good form character can be easily get overwhelmed by untrained and unprepared person because of "stuff". Happened to my character  Clone soldiers is not exception.

[Lithium Flower]

Personally I feel capsuleers shouldn't be ninjas in the first place. We spend much of our time floating in jelly and avoiding use of our long muscles.

I can see a capsuleer employing goons, or drones, to do the dirty work. I can't see one lasting in a protracted fistfight longer than 15 seconds, because that's about as long as an untrained individual's stamina lasts. There was a story I was planning ages ago, where my character gets quite embarrassingly beaten to death. Well, a death, anyway.

I have one "space ninja" type character - but instead of 'winning errything' she almost always ends in trouble and in pretty terrible condition.

I have one "han solo" type character - she is evasive as I don't know what, and would simply shoot you with a gun she holds under the table instead of starting or accepting the fight.

Other my characters are pretty harmless and would simply run straightforward to a capsule and won't poke their noses out, if they will feel danger.

But under no way I am going to use some "deus ex machina" by roleplaying NPC, goons, hired staff and so on. I have read somewhere, that it is CCP's chore to roleplay NPCs, and Im not going into this.

The only way for me to use not my characters - is when I write stories. In RP I am only me and myself alone (well, add to this my small army of alts, with whom I can roleplay between myselves) 

Oh, well, and my characters even fight among themselves with a mild violence. Happened at least twice between my "spaceninja" and "hansolo" 

[Silas Vitalia]

Personally I feel capsuleers shouldn't be ninjas in the first place. We spend much of our time floating in jelly and avoiding use of our long muscles.

I can see a capsuleer employing goons, or drones, to do the dirty work. I can't see one lasting in a protracted fistfight longer than 15 seconds, because that's about as long as an untrained individual's stamina lasts. There was a story I was planning ages ago, where my character gets quite embarrassingly beaten to death. Well, a death, anyway.

I have one "space ninja" type character - but instead of 'winning errything' she almost always ends in trouble and in pretty terrible condition.

I have one "han solo" type character - she is evasive as I don't know what, and would simply shoot you with a gun she holds under the table instead of starting or accepting the fight.

Other my characters are pretty harmless and would simply run straightforward to a capsule and won't poke their noses out, if they will feel danger.

But under no way I am going to use some "deus ex machina" by roleplaying NPC, goons, hired staff and so on. I have read somewhere, that it is CCP's chore to roleplay NPCs, and Im not going into this.

The only way for me to use not my characters - is when I write stories. In RP I am only me and myself alone (well, add to this my small army of alts, with whom I can roleplay between myselves) 

Oh, well, and my characters even fight among themselves with a mild violence. Happened at least twice between my "spaceninja" and "hansolo" 

IIRC Duster Clones are specially constructed, with reinforced skeletons, etc (to handle the weapons and for strength) making them generally superior to run of the mill baseliner meat sacs.