Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Creep]

I was reading the thread on the IGS about the SoCT speech+Gnosis giveaway, and I was stuck by the insistence of the playerbase that the SoCT is entirely made up of non-Jove. This does not appear to be an IC viewpoint either, as it crops up regularly in OOC discussions.

There seem to be two main reasons for this:
1: The Jove are all dead from the Jovian Disease.
2: None of the known members of the SoCT are Jovian.

For the first: As far as I can tell, this is an entirely player-created theory that sprang up in the past few years after no Jove showed up in any Live Events, and after the Sansha hit that one Jove system (which has been confirmed as not being the Jove Home System, but rather a mostly abandoned station on the edge of Jove space).
Are there any PF sources for Jove Extinction beyond that? Anything in the various books which I've never read that confirms that the Jove are all dying off?


The second strikes me as odd, because although none of the *15* known members (mission agents+Live Event character) are Jove, it IS a Jovian institution which only recently opened its doors to the wider cluster. This is compounded by the fact that the explicitly Jovian corps are ALSO represented by non-Jove characters(I think there's only been 3 obviously Jove character portraits? Ouira, the Ambassador during the Teleportsplosion, and I think one other?), and have been from the start of the game. Repeated confirmations of the Society's reclusive nature and deeply secretive attitudes suggests that their Jove members would not expose themselves to non-SoCT non-Jovians in any case.
Is there anything in PF to suggest that the SoCT no longer contains any Jove members?

The SoCT is clearly still active enough to ship us all their battlecruisers for free, so it's not a dead organization.

[Silas Vitalia]

If I recall there were Jovian members or at least founders.

No one in New Eden has seen a Jovian in many, many years and that is accepted PF as far as I know.

I am looking for confirmation but this has been a thing for a long time.

[Creep]

In the past decade, though, we've had one guy splattering himself across the cluster, a rogue admiral+followers fleeing to Stain and getting ganked by Capsuleers, and some ambassadorial stuff. Not to mention them cropping up in Chronicles (they show up when the Wormholes open, being all smug and knowing about the Sleepers, and they show up as intelligence-merchants in that one trade Chronicle). So either they've all collapsed due to sudden endemic in the past 5 years or are still around in some capacity.

[Lyn Farel]

Having gone through SoCT lore extensively over the past years, I can fairly say that there is absolutely NO PF AT ALL stating that there are still Jove in the SoCT, and absolutely NO PF AT ALL stating the contrary. Maybe hints that I may have missed, but nothing more.

People asserting that SoCT are only non Jove ICly are doing something called speculation to me. You can call them out on that ask them for their sources, or reasoning that makes them say so.

In my own personal RP, I take that with whole cubic metres of salt and always assume that maybe the Jove are still behind, but my character has never really seen them in her entire life. If they still exist in the SoCT, then they must be in the highest positions, remaining in the shadows. Anyway, she has never seen or heard about any of the SoCT leaders, so that's a moot point eventually.

Even Matshi Raish is only a spokesman and a respected scholar, nothing more. And it's the highest ranked character that I know of, except maybe some of the officials in Black Mountains (the ones forming and commanding the female agent), but they still remain low ranked characters.

[Makkal]

Nation headed off to Jove space and are now using mysterious wormhole technology to pop into the cluster. Either the Jove are slaves, dead, or still fighting nation.

It seems unlikely they'd be hanging around with the society.

But sure, it's possible. A Jove in the Society might be much safer than the rest of them.

[Creep]

Having gone through SoCT lore extensively over the past years, I can fairly say that there is absolutely NO PF AT ALL stating that there are still Jove in the SoCT, and absolutely NO PF AT ALL stating the contrary. Maybe hints that I may have missed, but nothing more.

People asserting that SoCT are only non Jove ICly are doing something called speculation to me. You can call them out on that ask them for their sources, or reasoning that makes them say so.

In my own personal RP, I take that with whole cubic metres of salt and always assume that maybe the Jove are still behind, but my character has never really seen them in her entire life. If they still exist in the SoCT, then they must be in the highest positions, remaining in the shadows. Anyway, she has never seen or heard about any of the SoCT leaders, so that's a moot point eventually.

Even Matshi Raish is only a spokesman and a respected scholar, nothing more. And it's the highest ranked character that I know of.

What happened to Veniel? He's the one Jove we know is explicitly in the Society, and has been active in the past 10 years (even acting as liaison to CONCORD and capsuleers).

Nation headed off to Jove space and are now using mysterious wormhole technology to pop into the cluster. Either the Jove are slaves, dead, or still fighting nation.

It seems unlikely they'd be hanging around with the society.

But sure, it's possible. A Jove in the Society might be much safer than the rest of them.

Also, I see THIS a lot, and it confuses me. Why would the Jove abandon the Society just because the empire is under attack? They've already got all reclusive from the MAIN Jove population and moved to Geminate and their isolated Kitz's: why should they give a fuck about the Directorate?

[Louella Dougans]

Jove are mentioned in the books.

[Makkal]

I have no idea with a kitz is. Would my character?

Jove are mentioned in the books.

What books? What do they do?

[Esna Pitoojee]

IIRC, it was in one of the TonyG books that one of CONCORD's secrets is that the Jove embassy has been abandoned for years. Not just the ambassador's gone - there's nobody there, at all.

But then, :TonyG:

[Creep]

Makkal: Kitz's are the Society's little Communes, all hippie-style. Self-Sufficient, remote, and cut off from society, focused on science/philosophy/the search for truth, presumably. Kitzless (Lyn/Horatius's corp) is a reference to them being in the society but existing outside such a commune. Your character might well know what the term means, even if she might have no idea what goes on inside one.

[Louella Dougans]

IIRC, it was in one of the TonyG books that one of CONCORD's secrets is that the Jove embassy has been abandoned for years. Not just the ambassador's gone - there's nobody there, at all.

But then, :TonyG:

Empyrean age, scene in which ambassador whatsisname is introduced. CONCORD Assembly station. Mentions 1 part of it is for the Jovian delegation, and that they hadn't sent a delegate to an Assembly session for "Decades".

Decades.

[Silas Vitalia]

I think most of us would make reasonable assumptions IC that they are all long gone, with no one seeing them in a very long time, and no sightings that we've ever heard of.

If they -aren't- dead, the end result is effectively the same as they aren't taking part in our little game of thrones any more. 

[Creep]

IIRC, it was in one of the TonyG books that one of CONCORD's secrets is that the Jove embassy has been abandoned for years. Not just the ambassador's gone - there's nobody there, at all.

But then, :TonyG:

Empyrean age, scene in which ambassador whatsisname is introduced. CONCORD Assembly station. Mentions 1 part of it is for the Jovian delegation, and that they hadn't sent a delegate to an Assembly session for "Decades".

Decades.

...But we know that there HAVE been Jove active, and the Jovian Directorate got involved with the Ouria shenanigans within the past Ten Years. Stain Alliance were the ones who ganked him, and then Veniel showed up and Hurfed some Blurf. Them not showing up to their pet project is...inconclusive, given that they have shown up anyways.

[Horatius Caul]

The final chapter of TEA has a number of Jovian characters distressed about something mysterious, IIRC.

Anyway, as Lyn says there is no PF saying that the SoCT has or doesn't have Jovians in it.

Just like the rest of the Jove corps, the SoCT has no Jove NPCs, so that's no reason to assume there are no jovians in it.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Especially given the trend towards de-TonyG-ification going on in CCP, I don't give a lot of credence to anything coming from his books.

One thing about the Jove is that they're described as having different factions that have different attitudes towards extreme genetic manipulation. That's made me assume in the past that the Jove-appearing Jove are all from the more experimental factions, while the "non-Jove" in the various Jove corporations were Jove from more conservative factions. More recent text on the Jove imply that they all look "Jovian", so it seems like the non-Jove Jove are examples of the rare foreigner:

Jove society is mysterious and difficult to comprehend. For this and other reasons it remains very much closed to the other races, and few foreigners reside within the Jovian Empire.