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Author Topic: Going to Caldari Prime  (Read 2977 times)

Bong-cha Jones

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Going to Caldari Prime
« on: 04 Mar 2013, 15:43 »

Nope.  I don't know if Simon Louvaki posts to these boards, but it isn't happening.  Without canon information on what is going on, I'm not going to make that call for everybody else.  I'm a little frustrated with this tactic, as it seems to me to be designed to shut down conversation, but what can you do, right?
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Silver Night

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #1 on: 04 Mar 2013, 16:03 »

[mod]Kindly provide a bit more context for everyone who doesn't know what you are talking about (like me).[/mod]

Lyn Farel

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #2 on: 04 Mar 2013, 16:34 »

I am not sure but maybe "how the gallente living on Caldari Prime are treated". Pretty much sure we have no information on that, or very meager.

However I am pretty sure that old news back from TEA clearly stated gallente guerilla still fighting against the Caldari on the planet.
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Vieve

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #3 on: 04 Mar 2013, 19:46 »

I am not sure but maybe "how the gallente living on Caldari Prime are treated". Pretty much sure we have no information on that, or very meager.

However I am pretty sure that old news back from TEA clearly stated gallente guerilla still fighting against the Caldari on the planet.


Yeah.  TEA did have Gallente guerillas fighting against the Caldari on the planet.  As did "Under the Sea, The City" and "Cities of Refuge".  (The latter suggested that the majority of Gallente on Caldari Prime, at least after the dust settled, tried to live their lives as they had before.  Whether or not the "major civil rebellion" that Keeler's mom thought was inevitable happened, I dunno.)



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Ciarente

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #4 on: 04 Mar 2013, 22:33 »

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Silver Night > I feel like we should keep Cia in reserve. A little bit for Cia's sanity, but mostly because her putting on her mod hat is like calling in Rommel to deal with a paintball game.

Bong-cha Jones

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #5 on: 04 Mar 2013, 23:51 »

Sorry, I posted the topic just as I was going to work, and I should have provided more context.

This is the specific post that I was talking about:  https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2699941#post2699941

In essence, I was wondering IC about the conditions on Caldari Prime for Gallenteans living there, and discussing fears of future retribution aimed at them as the State destabilizes, and I was invited to 'just go visit and see for myself'.

Now, if I could actually do that, or if I knew what Simon would find there when he went, that would be a capital idea!  But I can't, and I don't.  So, from my end of the keyboard, it seems like a tactic specifically deployed to shut me down and get me to stop talking, because the other player knows I can't do any such thing and come away with any sort of canon conclusions.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #6 on: 05 Mar 2013, 07:21 »

Why not just considering it as propaganda ? It's the ones that has told you that are unbiased...

Well anyway, that's what I do when some player decides to make up stuff that is mostly speculative, especially when it's to heavily support a specific faction.

Usually if I really want to be a bitch I ask for sources. Since they can't provide them they are screwed. If not, I just ignore.
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Bong-cha Jones

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #7 on: 05 Mar 2013, 07:46 »

I actually started the conversation that way, riffing off of Stitcher's post, which I thought was a really solid one.  But being told to flat-out go there and figure it out, when I can't (for multiple reasons), is what annoyed me.  Perhaps the banter was irritating, I don't know.  What frustrates me is that it makes continuing the conversation very difficult.  I can't get answers, but now I can simply be stone-walled by repeating the imperative to 'go and see'.  Which is why it strikes me as a meta-gaming tactic, to be frank:  it's only effective because the game won't let me get answers that way.

Or perhaps I'm being overly defensive.
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Ollie

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #8 on: 05 Mar 2013, 19:43 »

There's a couple of different ways you could continue the discussion, but I'll admit most are somewhat contrived.

1. Prime Fiction

You actually have canon that supports, to an extent, the fact that capsuleers outside of their capsule are - in general - seen as high priority targets amongst the non-capsuleer populace. The 'Jita 4-4' chronicle mentions this specifically in the context of capsuleers aboard a Caldari Navy station and how security deals with them. Translate that to your character's background as a Federation citizen and Caldari Prime as being a planet which - as far as we know is still in lockdown by a Templis Dragonaur heavy military - and you have good reason as to why your capsuleer wouldn't be able to go there.

The problem, of course, is that many players tend to ignore that piece of PF for a variety of reasons - most of them sound ones.

2. Call it as propaganda

Just like you, the other poster is unable to present canon evidence for his argument as none exists. Game mechanics do not necessarily convert directly into incontrovertible proofs in this respect. The claim that he has factories operating on the planet's surface should be taken on face value, of course - but this doesn't necessarily mean that every capsuleer can do the same ICly (even though game mechanics allows it). Perhaps the players with PI infrastructure had to strike complex agreements with the Caldari military on the planet to allow them to setup. Perhaps the PI is being utilised by the CalMil establishment to provide positive PR to the greater cluster's media outlets - *cue voiceovers from Starship Troopers* "Caldari Prime! Be all you can be, citizen! New opportunities await under the CPD's benevolent protection!

Of course, a lot of others would simply be rejected without explanation beyond "No".

The downside - if another player is unwilling to engage in this kind of RP it simply becomes a "I say, you say" circle jerk.

3. Use of background NPCs

This is a little herp-derpish, but throw a background NPC into the conversation. They were living on Caldari Prime before planet was re-taken and you were in contact for a while (after the media blackout was lifted), they couldn't provide specific details on what conditions or treatment were like (introduces the idea of censorship) but were clearly unsure what the future held. Then transmissions became less frequent, eventually stopping altogether.

Ask the other player if - given they have access to the planet's surface - whether they can find out any details on your background NPC's fate. Might stimulate some RP outside the forums in a best case scenario.

The flipside is it might be taken by the other player as an attack/chance to 'win' the argument rather than the invitation to RP that it should be framed as.

There's probably other ways to handle this, including just shutting your involvement with the debate down, but that's all I've got at present. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
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Vaun Erryk

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #9 on: 06 Mar 2013, 10:31 »

More generally, "well, I've gone there" is something I see as terrible form in RP. Not everyone avoids it, but I do wish they would.

Ollie's suggestions work in theory, but quickly make the RP less enjoyable, I've found: the first leads into people playing wiki warriors, the second rarely goes beyond the "no u" phase, and the third just seems to be doing what the other guy is (or leaving the further development to someone wanting to 'win' RP).

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Simon Louvaki

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #10 on: 28 Mar 2013, 12:38 »

My apologies if you took my response as underhanded, course you could have always PMed me if you had an issue with my response. I very much enjoy interactions with other players and I'm really not an unreasonable guy  :|

Honestly though, I was going off the fact that the game doesn't disallow me building factories on Caldari Prime and given my Corporations background (Hyasyoda subsidiary, though at the time I was still developing it) it's not unreasonable (in my opinion) to get access to the planet, even if some strings have to pulled. Aside from that we also had a chronicle [Cities of Refuge] depicting life that I linked in my post as well that I was hoping would clarify and lend some ground to stand on as to why I said what I said.
« Last Edit: 28 Mar 2013, 17:14 by Simon Louvaki »
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #11 on: 29 Mar 2013, 11:25 »

I might be out of the loop but isn't there a pretty tight 'no fly zone' blockade on the planet right now? 

IE extremely difficult to get down there.   Maybe lots of drops from orbit but won't just about every non-cleared ship be shot down on re-entry?

Won't capsuleers in their puny weak flesh state be shot on sight by just about everybody in the middle of a warzone planetside?


I imagine there could be clever ways through this but it would seem to be needed to be addressed as part of any RP in this area yea?

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Simon Louvaki

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #12 on: 29 Mar 2013, 13:32 »

The afore mentioned conversation and sequential complaint was before the recent battle and military restrictions. Previously when I created my corporation (largely for myself and to simulate the a small company and megacorp subsidiary) I posted an 'opening' thread in the IGS stating that I had opened a Bio-Fules Factory planet side and reasoned that given Caldari Prime's status as Caldari territory again that the Megas would in all liklyhood be gunning to plant their flag and take advantage of the situation (thus how I justified 'being there'). Apparently my reasoning and response to Mr. Coal's post IC has caused somewhat of an issue in that regard.
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Bong-cha Jones

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Re: Going to Caldari Prime
« Reply #13 on: 02 Apr 2013, 15:02 »

I could have gone directly to you, yes, but I wanted to test my knee-jerk response against other opinions in order to decide if I was correct, and in the end I decided it wasn't worth pursuing.

Also, Dueling Simons!   :P
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Formerly Simon Coal.