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[Silas Vitalia]

Let's chat!


While I contend there are plenty of examples of mildly to majorly weaponized / cyberized individuals in New Eden, I'll posit that generally these are not capsuleers we play as.

We are highly specialized super-special genetic freaks who plug our brains into starships, controlling thousands of systems, etc etc.  I want to imagine all of our resources, implants, and know-how are focused on 'spaceships' and related things.  Lots of head implants, lots of command and control software, etc.  Not the whole other avenue of walking hand to hand death machines.

I see an entirely 'different' avenue of cyberization for ground troops / assassins, etc.  who aren't having to deal with controlling spaceships.

Thoughts?

[Anslol]

I think there's simply too many possibilities to not accept cybernetic individuals. With as many clones as we can have, who's to say one doesn't have a combat frame? Who's to say that all augmentations are cybernetic as opposed to biological inheritance from clone to clone? Who's to say super cybernetic pilots weren't modified in specific ways to better fly their ship? Hell, who's to say some pilots don't LIKE just flying around ships and WANT to get into the action ground side or station side right along with their men.

My point is, not all eggers are aloof demi-gods who send mortals to do their bidding while they fart about in a shiny spaceship wringing their gooie hands together in sadistic delight as they watch their servants do their bidding DANCE PUPPETS DANCE...

....ahem....

Some capsuleers want to get involved with their men and women, leading them not just by ship command but on the battlefield. To me, a good, caring, and dependable commander worthy of holding leadership and people following him will be the first one to charge into a situation with his people. Of course that's not everyone, hurr hurr dark universe hurr hurr. But personally, I like to think that those who do mod themselves to fight alongside their people are the kind of eggers worthy of keeping and learning about more. They're the kind of people Anslo can admire despite faction affiliation.

They are not afraid.

EDIT: Also, if wide spread cyberization is so readily available in other universe settings such as say, Ghost in The Shell, where they haven't even exploited space yet and are only in the year 2027 A.D., why can't eggers do the same? A brain may not be implanted because well, it may not even be a brain anymore. It might be a big hunk of hardware with the pilots 'ghost' copied into it. Would make transmission of consciousness AND command signals a hell of a lot easier to send.

[Karmilla Strife]

I kind of agree that the cybernetic hardware for most capsuleers would be optimized for control of a ship. It would even be further specialized by in-game implants. However, if anyone has the resources for seemingly frivolous upgrades such as flamethrower hands for "personal defense", it would be capsuleers.

[Samira Kernher]

Cyber Knights
Many of the Khanid want to keep their warriors competitive, but the only way to do so in the modern world is through extensive body enhancements. The advanced knowledge of cyber implants possessed by the Amarr has proven exceptionally useful in this regard. Some Khanid still aim to excel in physical combat, while the more progressive ones seek to become masters of modern warfare.

This is one of the three ancestries for Khanid capsuleers. So I wouldn't doubt that there are at least Khanid capsuleers who, following their Cyber Knight heritage, are incredibly physically augmented.

The standard cybernetics we use is stuff for controlling our ships, but nothing stopping people from loading up physical augmentations as well.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Overaugmented eggers is something I simply can't argue with. There are too many PF reasons why it's a possibility, and not enough PF sources to suggest that it would be a bad idea.

[Lyn Farel]

I have often understood that cyber knight description more like a Nano augmented Deus Ex 1 than a Mechanicaly augmented Deus Ex 3. But maybe they use both. Who knows. vOv

I also have often seen capsuleers more like this

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Or this

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Than this

[spoiler][/spoiler]


But I see no reason why a capsuleer could not have a weird obsession in that kind of stuff... The only thing that makes me say that it is probably quite rare in the capsuleer milieu is that most capsuleers come from academies where 2 out of 3 of them are not even military, more political or scientific. They are probably closer to the average student you will find in any university than your average killing machine. Also, capsuleers basically do not need anything like that usually.

So, I think it is quite rare overall, but I do not see a particular issue with augmented capsuleers. Heavily to the point of going godmodish is another story.

[Silas Vitalia]

Now, we don't need PF to provide background for every little thing we do in RP,

but,

It has seemed over many years the PF leans in the direction of Capsuleers' strength emanating from their wealth, their influence on baseliners, and the destructive power of their ships.

The story is often about how these things are used to effect change and get results, particularly through manipulating other people.

We've seen evidence of cyberization, but we haven't seen any real PF dealing with capsuleer one-man cyborg death machines, so to speak.   There was the one CONCORD cyborg in Templar One, but there was only one, and a super-seekrit specialist.  Then there's DUST troopers, which do many of these things but have a completely different set of interphases / software / implants to do those things.

I'm not saying it's not possible per se, I'm just saying I haven't seen any lore that's been created showcasing these things.

Just not imagining a lot of this:

[Vincent Pryce]

Than this

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Oh look, you found Vlad.

[lallara zhuul]

Ummm, whats the point of going into combat for the adrenaline rush, glory and camaraderie after being soft copied, since you will not remember it even happening if you die?

Why would you gain anything in the eyes of your 'comrades' since you are immortal and they are not?

To me, all this combat malarkey is just fun and games for a capsuleer, nothing serious, and everyone knows it.

The capsuleers doing ground combat are like the Trust Fund kids slumming it in India at a five star hotel and being all spiritual and shit.

[Silas Vitalia]

Ummm, whats the point of going into combat for the adrenaline rush, glory and camaraderie after being soft copied, since you will not remember it even happening if you die?

Why would you gain anything in the eyes of your 'comrades' since you are immortal and they are not?

To me, all this combat malarkey is just fun and games for a capsuleer, nothing serious, and everyone knows it.

The capsuleers doing ground combat are like the Trust Fund kids slumming it in India at a five star hotel and being all spiritual and shit.

+1

[Silas Vitalia]

Cyber Knights
Many of the Khanid want to keep their warriors competitive, but the only way to do so in the modern world is through extensive body enhancements. The advanced knowledge of cyber implants possessed by the Amarr has proven exceptionally useful in this regard. Some Khanid still aim to excel in physical combat, while the more progressive ones seek to become masters of modern warfare.

This is one of the three ancestries for Khanid capsuleers. So I wouldn't doubt that there are at least Khanid capsuleers who, following their Cyber Knight heritage, are incredibly physically augmented.

The standard cybernetics we use is stuff for controlling our ships, but nothing stopping people from loading up physical augmentations as well.

Do you see the important distinction there though?

" Some Khanid still aim to excel in physical combat, while the more progressive ones seek to become masters of modern warfare."

This indicates two types, two different types.   Physical and 'modern warfare' aka spaceship pew pew. 

[Desiderya]

Most of the cybernetics required for the capsuleer interface seems to be headware and along the spine where we actually get plugged in.

Since we don't really have a basis for "how much cybernetics can be crammed into one human" here on Earth we kind of have to look at examples from (non-EVE) fiction. And that is quickly going to lead to many different opinions and views. The possibility for a lot of stuff is there, according to PF, so I guess it depends on what one wants to use. Most sources agree that there is a physiological and/or psychological border. Now you can argue that capsuleers are vetted and trained for "machine compability". If I'd wire up one of my character's I'd take inspiration from Shadowrun and Deus Ex, then exclude everything that's head or spine for reasons stated above.

From a purely practical perspective most "Tough guy" augmentations seem fairly useless. Impress baseliners some more? Might be a reason, but you could simply hire someone. Even if you die. What can happen? Soft cloning is a thing, so being squishy isn't a huge concern. This might be different when and if we ever get to do the prototype gameplay of structure exploration, though, even then - why not hire professional boarding teams or some dustbunnies, from a logical POV.

Add in that the more you cram into your body, the more expensive any new clone will be - unless you're going to lack the augmentations (hello trauma and disorientation). There's no real way to pay for that, so eh.. It's dangerous territory. Handle with care.
 

[Anslol]

Ummm, whats the point of going into combat for the adrenaline rush, glory and camaraderie after being soft copied, since you will not remember it even happening if you die?

Why would you gain anything in the eyes of your 'comrades' since you are immortal and they are not?

To me, all this combat malarkey is just fun and games for a capsuleer, nothing serious, and everyone knows it.

The capsuleers doing ground combat are like the Trust Fund kids slumming it in India at a five star hotel and being all spiritual and shit.

I don't agree. Like I said before, not all egg heads are aloof gods in spaceships. They may take the fact that, while they may be resurrected, their ground troops won't. If I had years of combat experience before being made an egger and I was sending my troops into a rough situation and if my experience and mods could help, why not? It may be nothing to the egger, but to the baseliners in his care, it would mean something. Even if he resurrects, he still came out of the pod and jumped into the fray to help his men.

In a situation like that, it's not fun and games, it's about being a leader.

[Ghost Hunter]

In general I subscribe to the idea that Capsuleers' main demonstration of power comes from their wealth, influence, and mental faculties. Capsuleers who emphasize their physical capabilities in personal encounters are in the weird grey zone that doesn't seem to mesh with their archetype. There are undoubtedly some, or many, that do so merely as a left-over from their traditional human upbringing.

It has its place in the cybernetic world of Capsuleerdom. I don't see its usefulness in roleplay, but I know a few people who find it central in theirs. As a trend, I see physical values emphasized more among 'humanized' Capsuleers than the 'I am a God' starship overlords.

[lallara zhuul]

Most leaders are not in the trenches and are not the most efficient there.

As a tactical asset you are much more essential to the survival of 'your troops' if you are not there fighting by their side, but by giving them fire support from orbit, keeping enemy dropships at bay and making sure that the shuttles that take out the wounded are not shot down by the enemy.

Both Starship Troopers and Aliens both showed clearly what is the difference between a ground pounder and a flyboy.

The flyboys can do what the ground pounders can do, but the ground pounders cannot do what the flyboys can.

The survival of the ground pounders depends on the fact that the flyboys do their job to their best capability.

Each have their own part to play for the success of the whole team.

For a flyboy to not do his job as a flyboy is a self indulgence and perceived as such by everyone involved.

Like it or not, as a capsuleer you are a flyboy.

Not a ground pounder, and you can never be one even if you were one at some point.

To try to be one, is not a favor to anyone involved.

Except the enemy.