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[Lithium Flower]

I am a bit not sure about Mary Sue-ing Ishukone, because it acts a bit like contra mundi (from Caldari baseliner view).
Maybe it is Marysue-ish from point of view of peoples like TonyG, but when you take RP aspect and will look at them with caldari eyes, they look more like nemesis than saviors.

[Alain Colcer]

would it be possible that Ishukone is doing all this to earn a Federation-recognized administrative license on the planet?

You know, manage it as a goverment concession and earn the profits while still maintaining caldari identity while being recognized as a non-threathening bargain inside fed space?

It would be a wise move if you ask me. Even perhaps trade intaki for caldari prime

[BloodBird]

would it be possible that Ishukone is doing all this to earn a Federation-recognized administrative license on the planet?

You know, manage it as a goverment concession and earn the profits while still maintaining caldari identity while being recognized as a non-threathening bargain inside fed space?

It would be a wise move if you ask me. Even perhaps trade intaki for caldari prime

Trade Intaki for Caldari Prime? Ishukone has no authority in Intaki, they made the deal to provide the Shipping and Security service and that's the extent of it, so they can't trade anything there for Caldari Prime.

Ofc, if you mean remove Intaki from the CEWPA treaty in return for gaining Caldari Prime, that would be up to CONCORD to decide, and the Senate and Intaki Assembly to discuss first. It still would not grant Ishukone anything to say in the matter, AFAIK.

I'm a little confused, tbh.

[Katrina Oniseki]

would it be possible that Ishukone is doing all this to earn a Federation-recognized administrative license on the planet?

You know, manage it as a goverment concession and earn the profits while still maintaining caldari identity while being recognized as a non-threathening bargain inside fed space?

It would be a wise move if you ask me. Even perhaps trade intaki for caldari prime

Trade Intaki for Caldari Prime? Ishukone has no authority in Intaki, they made the deal to provide the Shipping and Security service and that's the extent of it, so they can't trade anything there for Caldari Prime.

Ofc, if you mean remove Intaki from the CEWPA treaty in return for gaining Caldari Prime, that would be up to CONCORD to decide, and the Senate and Intaki Assembly to discuss first. It still would not grant Ishukone anything to say in the matter, AFAIK.

I'm a little confused, tbh.

I think he meant trade the shipping and security rights to Intaki back to the Federation in exchange for autonomy over Caldari Prime. The Federation wants their authority back in Intaki, and never were comfortable about Ishukone's deal. The FedNav fleet was turned away rather rudely by the Intaki Assembly, and I doubt they have forgotten that snub.

[Mithfindel]

Funny part about the Good Guy Ishukone thing is that except TEA, Gariushi's Ishukone was anything but "real life good". Sure, they tried to save the old Crielere scientists - but then again, Gariushi personally tried to steal some BPOs. And parts of the station were probably built with slave labour, probably even bigger no-no for the Caldari than even the Gallente. So trying to save the scientists was probably some sort of honour amongst thieves. The Insorum etc. deals could probably be written off more or less as Gariushi getting old and trying to redeem past sins.

[Silver Night]

 Scientists are also quite valuable.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Also,the whole TCMC issue comes to mind.

Ishukone may not be nice, but they are canny & they do seem to make an honest effort to look after their own people (from what I have seen & read anyway). I would agree that the Insorum thing was likely an attempt to make amends for past sins. Also, Mens Repola knows what a horrible person Heth is, because he compiled the dossier on him for Gariushi, including his Templis Dragonaurs connections. I have to say I'm amazed that they have shown up as a DUST npc corp and nobody has made any comments on a terrorist outfit that both the State & the Fed were hunting going legit.

[orange]

Also,the whole TCMC issue comes to mind.

...

I would agree that the Insorum thing was likely an attempt to make amends for past sins.

The other way to spin the release of the Insorum-cure is to create a larger market for TCMCs in the Empire & Kingdom.  Thus the Insorum-cure has nothing to do with amends for past sins and everything to do continuing those past sins for the betterment of the Ishukone Corporation.   

I always frame Ishukone's actions as being what is in the best interest of Ishukone (and therefore the State), just as I frame Lai Dai's actions in that same light.  Ishukone's economic philosophy lends it to more international involvement and a willingness to engage foreigners in Win-win (or WIN-Win, perferably WIN-win) agreements.  Patriots, like KK or Lai Dai, are less interested in deals with foreigners, especially enemies, that is anything less than Win-draw.*

*I argue the Patriot investment in the Kingdom had more to do with weakening the Empire than strengthening the Kingdom.

[Publius Valerius]

Also,the whole TCMC issue comes to mind.

...

I would agree that the Insorum thing was likely an attempt to make amends for past sins.

The other way to spin the release of the Insorum-cure is to create a larger market for TCMCs in the Empire & Kingdom.  Thus the Insorum-cure has nothing to do with amends for past sins and everything to do continuing those past sins for the betterment of the Ishukone Corporation.   

I always frame Ishukone's actions as being what is in the best interest of Ishukone (and therefore the State), just as I frame Lai Dai's actions in that same light.  Ishukone's economic philosophy lends it to more international involvement and a willingness to engage foreigners in Win-win (or WIN-Win, perferably WIN-win) agreements.  Patriots, like KK or Lai Dai, are less interested in deals with foreigners, especially enemies, that is anything less than Win-draw.*

*I argue the Patriot investment in the Kingdom had more to do with weakening the Empire than strengthening the Kingdom.

I agree with the first part. The Ishukone was always for me also the Neoliberals (IR): Pro-businesses, pro-Trade, pro-Interdependence, pro market participation... etc....

As for the second part, I saw the Lai Dai investment in the Kingdom (Khanid Innovation), the same way as Lai Dais investment on Carthum C. To get a foot hold into the production of those more closed market (Empire and Kingdom). How they got in? Thru information-transfers (Technological change), shaping of the thinking (in the leadership and company as whole), and buying of shares of those company's of course.

To make a really bad RL example: See Volkswagen investment in China. They have worked/most worked with companies which is already in place (pump this company up, make it competitive...etc or creat them from the ground up). Long story short, if you try to work in this market you need some sort of foothold, a joint venture or creating a company with base in the country (FAW)... etc...

Thats the way, I saw all the investment in the Kingdom earlier. As in the Kingdom arent any foreign Stations (not counting CONCORD). Which means, or can mean, that the economic in the Kingdom is more restricted. I could imagine some sort of a Mercantilism, where the central government overlooks the imports/exports, controls capital movement, and makes centralizes currency decisions and/or the currency is in the hand/realm of the central government (central bank). So in this case would be Lai Dai, Modern Finances etc.....investments in those markets a tool to get a foothold in this places. New costumers are always welcome (and I dont thing, that patriots mind costumers  ). As why the caldari and not the others too? I could imagine, that the Caldari companies are good in taking advantage of those loopholes, as they have the people which had and still life in both worlds.

But just my 2 cents, could be also totally wrong again.


About the whole TCMC and Kingdom thingy... I had long time ago something in mind (a thread in the IGS, but could it also post here). About how it changes societies. I could imagine that the FED could even have some wire-tripping junkies etc.... As for the Kingdom, a dealer of TCMC would it be a nice moral problem. As DEALER is the right word, you deal with an Idea/Ideas which can and will be misused. And all this for profit? Very un-Amarrian. As for the use on slaves, they make your life as holder easier, but dont help the end-goal: Reclaiming of hearts and minds....etc. I could imagine, that in the FED lifes a whole underclass with this things (TCMC); and dream the "GALLENTE DREAM OF FREEDOM AND WEALTH". As for them is okay, or lets say for the FED society is it less of a problem, because people choose to wire-trip (more or less). As for the Kingdom (the other nation next to the FED, with a underclass/slave class) which uses those things extensively is it a problem. Their are isnt much "amarrian" about those TCMC´s, the same counts for the Caldaris (As the Kingdom is more a mix of both Caldari and Amarr). So the problem is still there. But I go off topic now  .....

Had some Ideas about this topic in mind before I left.

 

[Alain Colcer]

I think he meant trade the shipping and security rights to Intaki back to the Federation in exchange for autonomy over Caldari Prime. The Federation wants their authority back in Intaki, and never were comfortable about Ishukone's deal. The FedNav fleet was turned away rather rudely by the Intaki Assembly, and I doubt they have forgotten that snub.

yes precisely, thanks for clarifying.

Ishukone is just doing good business in securing access to Caldari Prime and ensuring the market there stays close to the State, even if it has to make a couple of hops into Fed space.

[Mithfindel]

The other way to spin the release of the Insorum-cure is to create a larger market for TCMCs in the Empire & Kingdom.  Thus the Insorum-cure has nothing to do with amends for past sins and everything to do continuing those past sins for the betterment of the Ishukone Corporation.   

Yes, the original reasoning for that project would be probably that. I was merely referring to giving the stuff away for free; this was, admittedly, not clear on the post.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

The other way to spin the release of the Insorum-cure is to create a larger market for TCMCs in the Empire & Kingdom.  Thus the Insorum-cure has nothing to do with amends for past sins and everything to do continuing those past sins for the betterment of the Ishukone Corporation.   

Yes, the original reasoning for that project would be probably that. I was merely referring to giving the stuff away for free; this was, admittedly, not clear on the post.

Well, giving it away for free would ensure a market for TCMC's amongst holders who would otherwise use Vitoc, no? Damned cunning these Squids!

That said the passage in TEA where Garuishi makes the decision does seem to have overtones of him feeling guilty about not doing so earlier. Of course it could be argued that he was feeling remorse for not opening up the TCMC market some more, but from what I recall of the scene, this is not the case.

[BloodBird]

I think he meant trade the shipping and security rights to Intaki back to the Federation in exchange for autonomy over Caldari Prime. The Federation wants their authority back in Intaki, and never were comfortable about Ishukone's deal. The FedNav fleet was turned away rather rudely by the Intaki Assembly, and I doubt they have forgotten that snub.

Perhaps not, but these pointers are important:

Ishukone went and made that deal with the Assembly, the sovereign nation in control of the Intaki system and likely the whole constellation Intaki is in. Ishukone would not have to go directly to the Federation-level management for anything at all - they could simply ask the Assembly, for the same reason I find it a little weird (and lazy from CCP's end) not to include any PF piece about the State trying to negotiate with whoever is sovereign on Caldari Prime about having the planet change hands. I think it would be cool to hear such a thing and what the terms might have been.

Even so, Ishukone can't use anything they have in Intaki on a negotiating table, their deal with the Assembly is entirely voluntary and either party can cancel it whenever they want or don't re-new when the deal expires, IIRC there was mention of how long the deal was supposed to last. The Federal-level leadership and the local nation(s) in control of Caldari Prime will decide what happens. Ishukone has no cards to play regarding Intaki, only a deal that IIRC exist only because Ishukone and their partners allow it.

Of course, I might be wrong, but I don't think it's likely.