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[Tiberious Thessalonia]

I'm just saying it doesn't cost a million bucks to develop a single star system in a space-based game unless the system you have to do so is woefully and comically inefficient.  I just wonder why people are still tossing these guys all of their money with nothing really to show for it.

Kickstarter is at least a little bit about investment, with the only major difference being that the guy on the other hand has no legal obligation to provide you with anything.  I'd be at least a little bit wary.

[Morwen Lagann]

I said it once and I'll say it again. Until they actually have a working game to show for all this money I'm not going to spend any of my own on it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

basically me, tl;dr

+1.

No money from me until we have at minimum a confirmed release date, and preferably a functioning beta.

Piecemeal/module-by-module is cool for prototyping. I want to see all of those modules working as one unit (for some acceptably loose beta-testing definition of 'working') before I slap some bills on the table.

That's one way of putting it. Which means that you are probably not going to support any kickstarting campaign anytime soon, for that it is exactly what it is here.

If you don't want to spend money because you get sold/enticed by a demo and a few engaging ideas, then the concept of kickstarting sure isn't going to work.

I'm neither stupid nor overflowing with spare cash that I can just piss into the wind on a gamble based on some guy's previous track record, so, more or less this, yes. A shiny demo reel and a bunch of fluffed-up ideas won't sell me on a game to the point I'd throw money down, ever. Kickstarter smells like a giant scam machine to me in most cases, especially where game development is concerned. I know enough about the games industry to know it's volatile enough that it's a bad idea even with such a fancy name pulling the strings.

If I'm going to put money down on a game before it's released, it's going to be because I have a guarantee that I'm actually going to get a game for my money - I'm okay with preordering something once it has a release date since at that point I am pretty much guaranteed a product in my hands, regardless of its quality. But not something that doesn't have a release date, let alone anything tangible that I can put my hands on to try before I buy.

[Lyn Farel]

I'm just saying it doesn't cost a million bucks to develop a single star system in a space-based game unless the system you have to do so is woefully and comically inefficient.  I just wonder why people are still tossing these guys all of their money with nothing really to show for it.

Kickstarter is at least a little bit about investment, with the only major difference being that the guy on the other hand has no legal obligation to provide you with anything.  I'd be at least a little bit wary.

What does cost a million (or more) is to actually develop your engine and game system, even if you use an already existing core like CryEngine. Maybe are you saying that they should have done so on their old previous engines, like freelancer ?

What takes time is not to design a few ingame art assets as I said above, it's to develop the tools to put them on screen and the tools to make them work, even without much of game mechanics behind. And that's what they have done for now, nothing less, nothing more. They have a functioning core based on CryEngine with spaceships shooting at each other and a tech demo of their destructible spaceship parts (which already hints at at least some mechanics already in place) and a hangar that is nothing more than a showcase of the first art assets they just had to put in the game engine proper.

You do not design a space system for the first month, then another one the second month of development, and a third one the next few months... I'm afraid it doesn't work like that, only for art assets at best. For programming it's purely iterative with layer after layer of game functionalities. And you need a good chunk of those for your first star system to be demo-able.

And yes, better to be wary with something like kickstarter, like any investor should be wary on what he invests. I also heard that kickstarter themselves really made their rules more strict to prevent abuses and exploits like it has happened already ? Didn't find the time to inquire about it yet...

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

The problem is that if the developer wanted to, he could simply just stop development tomorrow and walk away with all the money that is remaining.

And my comments was referring to specifically that.  His last few stretch goals have been to add more systems.  "Give me an extra million and I will add another system to the game"..  A game which hasn't even produced a workable demo to show off, and which crashed at PAX.  his response to that was to say, simply, "Why dont you try showing a pre-alpha version of a game at a major event and tell me how that goes?"

Why is he showing pre-alpha versions of the game at major shows in the first place?!?

[kalaratiri]

Why is he showing pre-alpha versions of the game at major shows in the first place?!?

"THERE IS A GAME HERE I PROMISE LOOK AT ALL THIS WORK WE'VE DONE PLEASE KEEP FEEDING US MONEY"

But seriously, good luck to them. I hope they make a fun game. I'm paying them nothing till they actually have a game.

[Silas Vitalia]

Some people might like that they are being so open about the development process and not scared to show off things in an unruly and buggy state.

It's been the exact opposite of CCP wall of silence, I find it refreshing.

This is a passion project for Roberts; he's not taking the money and running.  Regardless of legal fine print if he just closed all the development studios and fired the few hundred people working on the game, there would be so many backer lawsuits he'd be in court forever and a pariah among his community.

I'm almost positive the game will not deliver on all of the many lofty promises, but it will deliver on enough of the basic ones as to be worth my time.

The problem will be refinement, refinement, refinement.  These competitive games are extremely dependent on balancing and play testing to get it right and not an unbalanced shit show.  What I'm worried about is a slow turnaround for balance issues and we end up with some 'pulse laser armageddon with 8 heat sinks' type of thing going on that never gets fixed.

[Lyn Farel]

The problem is that if the developer wanted to, he could simply just stop development tomorrow and walk away with all the money that is remaining.

They already do that in the industry, except it's the publisher that takes all the remaining money. If the backers had a way to do the same too when a game doesn't pass a deadline or show any progress, I wouldn't complain.

And my comments was referring to specifically that.  His last few stretch goals have been to add more systems.  "Give me an extra million and I will add another system to the game"..  A game which hasn't even produced a workable demo to show off, and which crashed at PAX.  his response to that was to say, simply, "Why dont you try showing a pre-alpha version of a game at a major event and tell me how that goes?"

Why is he showing pre-alpha versions of the game at major shows in the first place?!?

Because otherwise he would be accused of the exact same thing you are already accusing him of doing : "for what are we paying if you have nothing to show ? You scammer"

In his shoes... Be damned in either way.

And the hype and amounts involved in his game specifically make that all of this suddenly becomes an extremely important matter.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I don't have a problem supporting a game being funded by Kickstarter. what I'm worried about is that chris Roberts has a track record of not delivering on his promises, and he's already crashed and burned once before. Look up the development history of Freelancer.

Chris Roberts is not the God of game development that people seem to think he is. I'm not saying I refuse to back star citizen early what I'm saying is that I am not willing to back star citizen right now. They have not convinced me they are worth it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Silas Vitalia]

There was a sale on joysticks at my local MicroCenter... got this for $29.99 USD, and it's a steal as the stick is pretty good quality!

http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/tflight-hotas-x

Multiplayer demo should be out in a few weeks. I'm going to wait for my guinea pigs, er.... friends who have already backed, to tell me how it is before I spend anything.

 

[Silas Vitalia]

Read some pretty interesting stuff from some of the dev Q and A on the SC forums...

1. EVA/ Boarding.  They are going for a very 'seamless' approach to this sort of thing. So technically if you've disabled an enemy ship and you are in a solo-pilot vessel you could pull up next to the disabled ship and just EVA over there and blast yourself in the enemy ship.  The dev said there would be several disadvantages to this, namely it would take a lot longer, and your pilot EVA suit isn't exactly designed for hauling weapons and explosives.  He compared this to using one of the more 'dedicated' boarding ships with appropriate docking collars and hull-cutting equipment, where instead you've got 5 or 6 'marines' kitted up with assault rifles and armor, you latch on to the ship and get your crew in before the victims have time to prepare their own defenses.

They are aiming for a steep risk/reward for this sort of activity, they don't want this to be grand theft auto in space.  IE if you screw up the 'victims' can just as easily steal your ship and kill you.



2.  Ship systems/ subsystems.  Where you shoot people matters, you can destroy engines, weapons, shields, etc.  You can hit this stuff manually but if you have the appropriate sensor packages installed on your ship you can determine these things easier.  Also plenty of neut/nos type of weapons are planned for destabilizing enemy power.   Tons of small details like if you drain an enemy ship, they will have some battery power but if you drain it completely even the lights will turn off.

3. On the larger ships you will be able to walk around, etc, during dogfights.  Think Millenium falcon running to man the turrets, etc.

[Silas Vitalia]

A good catchup of April's activity by the developers....

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13848-Monthly-Report-April-2014

[Silas Vitalia]

Rubber firmly hitting the road in two weeks: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13883-Arena-Commander-Weekly-Report-May-12-16

Multiplayer demo featuring many of the core pvp mechanics will be released.  We'll see how it goes! Awful bitterness or sweet deliciousness.

[Charles Cambridge Schmidt]

Rubber firmly hitting the road in two weeks: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13883-Arena-Commander-Weekly-Report-May-12-16

Multiplayer demo featuring many of the core pvp mechanics will be released.  We'll see how it goes! Awful bitterness or sweet deliciousness.

Let's hope it isn't as disappointing as TESO!

[Wanoah]

Exciting times ahead, and largely due to Kickstarter. We're going from a situation where the space sim genre was dead (s'why I ended up trying Eve back in 2004: I was craving something like Elite) apart from the somewhat impenetrable X games and Eve to a situation where we're looking forward to a positive glut of space sims: Elite 4, Star Citizen, Limit Theory all immediately come to mind, as well as stuff like Kerbal Space Program.

I certainly understand why people are reluctant to front cash for games development, given that there is a decent chance of that shiny game in prospect being vapourware. Still, pledging money via Kickstarter is an investment, and all investments carry risk. Personally, I have spare disposable income and I'm quite happy to risk small sums if it means things I like the look of might exist. I only ever back things where I get the finished product in return, and I accept that some projects might fail.

Having said that, I didn't back Star Citizen. I backed Limit Theory instead, and as far as I can see, that's coming along very nicely. Will it be a fun game? I don't know, but the I felt that the passion of its creator alone was worth investing in.

[Silas Vitalia]

Exciting times ahead, and largely due to Kickstarter. We're going from a situation where the space sim genre was dead (s'why I ended up trying Eve back in 2004: I was craving something like Elite) apart from the somewhat impenetrable X games and Eve to a situation where we're looking forward to a positive glut of space sims: Elite 4, Star Citizen, Limit Theory all immediately come to mind, as well as stuff like Kerbal Space Program.

I certainly understand why people are reluctant to front cash for games development, given that there is a decent chance of that shiny game in prospect being vapourware. Still, pledging money via Kickstarter is an investment, and all investments carry risk. Personally, I have spare disposable income and I'm quite happy to risk small sums if it means things I like the look of might exist. I only ever back things where I get the finished product in return, and I accept that some projects might fail.

Having said that, I didn't back Star Citizen. I backed Limit Theory instead, and as far as I can see, that's coming along very nicely. Will it be a fun game? I don't know, but the I felt that the passion of its creator alone was worth investing in.

Kickstarter allows games to move outside of the corporate developer system, and that's more than enough for my money.