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Author Topic: Retribution.  (Read 69858 times)

Shaalira

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #45 on: 13 Oct 2012, 01:31 »

The off-hand mention to 'logistics' was a handwavy, unserious explanation.  The disparity in power between CONCORD ships depending on the way they spawn is a minor detail you can pave over with suspension of disbelief.  It's a minor nitpick along the lines of avatars not having to go to the bathroom.

CONCORD supports war declarations and bounties between capsuleers, irrespective of justification, motive, or merit.  That's a major and conscious policy choice, that you can't ignore or handwave away.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #46 on: 13 Oct 2012, 01:39 »

war declarations and stuff, there is a thing. I've seen people from the pirate factions argue it along the following lines:

The factions that CONCORD consider outlaw, have tendencies towards random violence (e.g. guristas), and trading things that won't fall under SCC rules. (serpentis boosters and the like).

Random violence, cannot be factored into financial things easily, so CONCORD takes a dim view of things.

Predictable violence, such as wars, are condoned, as long as the participants don't commit any random violence, that would inconvenience interstellar trade.

So groups that reject trade as being the most important thing, and persons doing random violence, are Outlawed.

The isk must flow, etc.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #47 on: 13 Oct 2012, 03:32 »

That's true. I am not debating the fact that CONCORD condones capsuleer wars (just that it seemed a bit stretched), but your pov based on economics makes sense to me, even if that's a little far from their actual mandate. The only thing that it can point out actually, is a strong ethos and morale on their behalf if they are so much interested in the well being of baseliner economy, which is not quite the field they are supposed to bolster in the first place. Why would they help baseliner planetside economies considering what is their mandate in the first place, if not for ethics and ideals ?

A strong ethos and sense of morality is not necessary because they have a pragmatic and self-interested reason to expand interstellar trade.  See CONCORD's history:

Quote from: CONCORD History
For the first few decades of its existence CONCORD wielded very limited power, but in recent years their authority has grown alongside that of inter-stellar trade, ... The root for this development lies in the evolution of CONCORD itself. It’s no longer simply a neutral ground for the empires to hammer out diplomatic agreements - it has become an independent institution setting its own rules and regulations and, more importantly, is both willing and able to uphold them. .... The only hold the empires have had on CONCORD, that of financial support, is waning day by day as the revenues garnered through customs, confiscation of illegal goods, selling licenses, and more, are steadily increasing.

Emphasis mine.

In other words, CONCORD's power and independence as an organization is dependent on revenues earned through its control of interstellar trade.  Expanding interstellar trade expands its revenue base and solidifies its autonomy vis-a-vis the empire governments.

Okay, sounds fair. Makes sense interpreted that way.

In any case, again, I am not debating the fact that CONCORD has amoral sides, just pointing out that I hardly believe something can be completely black in eve. I am just lazy to re read all the concord lore again but I was pretty sure to have read here and there a certain emphasis on ethics and also on an administration almost free of corruption and underground dealings.

What makes me itch in your analysis is that you seem to portray them more or less completely in black, and that's just not true in my view. I like your arguments on the justification for making capsuleer wars legal, and why not for bounties too with that in mind, yes. I guess I would have liked a little more to see the bounty system to be founded by someone else than CONCORD, like a pirate underground. Firstly it was easier to explain, and secondly, more importantly, it would give some love to the pirate side of the lore. It would also have set the bounties system as a direct underground challenger/threat to the legal conventionnal war system regulated by CONCORD. It makes even more sense when you think that the bounty system is more or less independant of any CONCORD space regulation (you can't shoot your bounty in high sec, have to endure sec penalties, etc... note that I am not speaking about killrights, that truly belong to CONCORD though).


Why indeed ? Makes no sense. The same way that the opposite point of view possesses a lot of similar inconsistencies. Why cannot we fire at planets, civilian ships, why aren't we able to cause any damages to stations or space objects rendered invulnerable by game mechanisms ? Why are we cut into pieces within a few seconds when facing CONCORD police in high sec while missions against CONCORD makes them appear like standard weak and squishy NPCs ? (and how is that we kill millions of NPC battleships everyday, depleting the whole population, and how is that Newtonian physics are not respected in space, etcetc ?)

I am trying to conciliate the two, to the risk of actually combining both flaws... But meh.  :psyccp:

Technically, Dust will allow podders to fire at planets.  The circumstances that allow this are still vague.

We can fire at civilian ships.  Try shooting up the grey crosses traveling from station to station for loot.  You can do this in both hi-sec and low-sec, and you can even get away with it with your ship intact in hi-sec.

The disparity between police CONCORD and squishy NPC CONCORD is the big one, and probably the one that you can attribute the most to game mechanic demands.  A handwavy explanation involves CONCORD supported by its full infrastructure in hi-sec space, and CONCORD forces caught out in low-sec where they're operating in unfriendly territory.

Population issues concerning crews and battleship losses are an interesting subject, but unrelated to the issue of CONCORD's motives.

Dust will allow podders to fire at a specific point on a planet. I still can't shoot at Crystal Boulevard if I want to. I can't nuke half of Pator surface if I want to (to explain why everything is under the water derp).

I did not say that we can't shoot the few NPC transports that fly here and there (there are so few... that's unrealistic as hell by the way). We can't do a single damage to a lot of space objects. Why ? Because if no interference is coming from somewhere, I want to know what kind of materials they use in their hulls, that could be handy at times.

That's precisely why I prefered my first point of view. Wars, bounties, whatever, could be handled another way in the lore. It can be changed. Targeting stations, planets, drastic differences between concord NPCs, everything like this tied to game mechanics, hardly can.

Quote
The same way, but in more extreme, I believe, that state capsuleers belong to their faction which is responsible for them  (see what happens when Noir decides to crash into a station... could we do the same ?)

The Broker did the actual crashing.  That character operates under so few restrictions that it's more accurately termed a plot device.

Does not make any sense to me.  :bash:

TonyG I guess.

Quote
Oh, pragmatically, yes, definitly. Would you however allow military unfaillible selective devices shoot at each other in the middle of a street, large or narrow, whatever, with the justification that they will obviously never harm anyone since they aim accurately at their targets ? What would all the mortal non-capsuleers flying around think of that, however ? I know that I wouldnt like myself to see weapons of the apocalypse firing huge beams of destructive power near me, even if they are supposed to never cause any harm to me.

The opinions of potentially offended mortal non-capsuleer bystanders don't really amount to too much.

No, seriously.  Capsuleers shooting each other in hi-sec space is constitutes a minority of the violence there.  The majority of apocalyptic huge beam firing in hi-sec space is done by capsuleers directed at non-capsuleer targets by empire authorities.

Those last ones are criminals, not the average citizen. The ones that are part of the economic basis that makes CONCORD live according to you ?


I tend to agree with Shaalira here. For CONCORD it's far better to isolate and contain capsuleers by having them focused on killing and destroying each other rather than potentially having them upset the established order of things with their signatories. By providing outlets for violence and the use of nominal incentives they create system where capsuleers are more or less contained in their own little bubble and the interstellar framework is more or less maintained.

It's a pragmatic policy that allows CONCORD to focus on other threats to the peace and strengthens their own position because they don't have to respond to each and every dubious and questionable act capsuleers may commit in the course of their careers.

I am not denying that, duh. Again, I am pointing out the flaws of two different interpretations of CONCORD powers and mandate.

I'm not sure why CONCORD should be the 100% perfect UN/Space Police when it seems New Eden is a dog eat dog world for a capsuleer and I don't think one will get much sympathy or outrage when another capsuleer attempts to "grief" them from the average joe if one considers the prevalent sterotype of the class is one of supposedly powerful technological ubermensch.

I am not sure why CONCORD should be the 100% pragmatic amoral bloated UN/Space Police either, when it seems New Eden is a grey world, not a dark for the sake of being dark, one.
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Gesakaarin

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #48 on: 13 Oct 2012, 05:17 »

I am not sure why CONCORD should be the 100% pragmatic amoral bloated UN/Space Police either, when it seems New Eden is a grey world, not a dark for the sake of being dark, one.

Well I don't think it's essentially black or amoral when looking at the options available to CONORD and the signatories in regards to capsuleers:

a) Undertake a long and costly campaign against freelance capsuleers by seeking to restrict cloning access and attempt to terminate them all one by one.

b) Contain them and set them lose upon each other by facilitating and condoning capsuleer conflict with the added benefit of taxing them all and profiting from the artificial war economy it creates where demand is created through perpetual destruction of capsuleer assets so that they never unify or get too strong to upset the status quo.

The bounty system to me is just a natural extension of option b for CONCORD and it makes sense if they don't exist to protect capsuleers but rather seek to control them in accordance with their mandate. Certainly, for certain capsuleers who find themselves at the receiving end of others abuse of the CONCORD system may think they should do more but in the end the majority of people in the cluster aren't capsuleers and from the Assembly's perspective they may believe they're fulfilling a moral obligation in ensuring that all those capsuleers remain fragmented and killing each other for the benefit of everyone else.

For myself at times the opinion CONCORD has in regards to capsuleers is both as a class that is dangerous and needs to be controlled through a variety of methods as well as a class that can be exploited to facilitate interstellar trade and investment. They exist solely to maintain the status quo and what they may consider to be right or wrong, moral or immoral is guided by ensuring that it's upheld.
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Z.Sinraali

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #49 on: 13 Oct 2012, 08:57 »

The act of reducing your security status only makes you susceptible to bounties.  The actual placement of bounties is entirely up to the whims of other capsuleers.  Most of the time, bounties have nothing to do with outlaw acts.  This is because putting a bounty on someone with the intention to punish them is stupid, given current mechanics.  As CCP noted in the dev blog, the high-bounty players out there are all adverts, attention-seekers, or inactives.

You're right, the system doesn't work. That's a reason to fix the system, not to change the intentions behind the system. Analogy: You buy a car because you need to get around. One day, your car breaks down. Do you suddenly no longer need to get around?

Also, I'm rather curious what you think "griefing" is.  If engaging in an action to the detriment of another random PC is griefing, then the entirety of the game is set up for it.  Putting bounties on random people who did you no wrong is no different from pirates attacking random neutral strangers.  Are pirates griefing?

I doubt we're going to reach a unified theory of griefing here, so I'll answer that narrow question with a "no" and point out that putting bounties on random people who did you no wrong is different from pirates attacking random neutral strangers: It requires no effort (beyond that of acquiring the ISK) and, being anonymous, does not entail any risk of retaliation. It gives the victim no recourse but to face increased risk of attack in space until they lose a minimum of 5x the value of the bounty. If you think those are good things, or at least outweighed by the positive results of this change (though you haven't mentioned any such outcomes so far), then please say so and we can argue on that basis.

As for why CONCORD would do this, why does CONCORD allow capsuleers to wage legal war against each other within Empire space for a modest isk fee?  All you need to do is pony up the funds and push a button.  No cassus belli required.

CONCORD sanctions certain wars because it actually does further their goals of controlling and containing capsuleer violence. It allows them to set the terms of engagement and extract monetary concessions that could be used for their own purposes.

Allowing bounties to be placed on anyone does the opposite by removing the disincentive effect: Violating CONCORD engagement regulations no longer leads to the risk having a bounty placed on your head, which then leads to the risk of bringing down bounty hunters on your head. (Never mind that that's a feature rather than a bug in some minds.) You're not punishing breaking the rules anymore, you're punishing...having a capsuleer license. Which, of course, will piss off those capsuleers who hold prior inclination to support CONCORD's regulation, eroding political support for the organization.

Your other argument, that that's just the status quo, is simply false:
CONCORD supports...bounties between capsuleers, irrespective of justification, motive, or merit.  That's a major and conscious policy choice, that you can't ignore or handwave away.

CONCORD does not, at present, support that. It supports bounties on those who've violated its engagement regulations and failed to "atone" by shooting enough sanctioned targets. It will support that, if the changes go through as written, but the entire point of my arguments is that those changes make no sense for CONCORD to support.
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Shaalira

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #50 on: 13 Oct 2012, 13:38 »


You're right, the system doesn't work. That's a reason to fix the system, not to change the intentions behind the system. Analogy: You buy a car because you need to get around. One day, your car breaks down. Do you suddenly no longer need to get around?

That analogy would be sound if we agreed on the intentions behind the bounty system.  I don't think we do.

I doubt we're going to reach a unified theory of griefing here, so I'll answer that narrow question with a "no" and point out that putting bounties on random people who did you no wrong is different from pirates attacking random neutral strangers: It requires no effort (beyond that of acquiring the ISK) and, being anonymous, does not entail any risk of retaliation. It gives the victim no recourse but to face increased risk of attack in space until they lose a minimum of 5x the value of the bounty. If you think those are good things, or at least outweighed by the positive results of this change (though you haven't mentioned any such outcomes so far), then please say so and we can argue on that basis.

So you're fine with gameplay that results in harm to random neutrals as long as effort is involved?  That's a wholly different argument than a griefing condemnation.

A bounty is just an automated market transaction.  It's hiring mercenaries made easy, the transformation of an under-used aspect of EVE to a streamlined interface.

What the change means as that it's easier for a capsuleer to expend isk to hurt or make a target of another capsuleer.  Potentially any kind of behavior in the game can be punished, as long as the price is right.  This is an expansion of the sandbox, and permits a new ecology of careers and consequences.

Does it make the game more cut-throat and cruel while inspiring paranoia in the average player?  Yes.  Does that fit EVE?  Yes.


As for why CONCORD would do this, why does CONCORD allow capsuleers to wage legal war against each other within Empire space for a modest isk fee?  All you need to do is pony up the funds and push a button.  No cassus belli required.

CONCORD sanctions certain wars because it actually does further their goals of controlling and containing capsuleer violence. It allows them to set the terms of engagement and extract monetary concessions that could be used for their own purposes.

Allowing bounties to be placed on anyone does the opposite by removing the disincentive effect: Violating CONCORD engagement regulations no longer leads to the risk having a bounty placed on your head, which then leads to the risk of bringing down bounty hunters on your head. (Never mind that that's a feature rather than a bug in some minds.) You're not punishing breaking the rules anymore, you're punishing...having a capsuleer license. Which, of course, will piss off those capsuleers who hold prior inclination to support CONCORD's regulation, eroding political support for the organization.

Your other argument, that that's just the status quo, is simply false:
CONCORD supports...bounties between capsuleers, irrespective of justification, motive, or merit.  That's a major and conscious policy choice, that you can't ignore or handwave away.

CONCORD does not, at present, support that. It supports bounties on those who've violated its engagement regulations and failed to "atone" by shooting enough sanctioned targets. It will support that, if the changes go through as written, but the entire point of my arguments is that those changes make no sense for CONCORD to support.

But that's incorrect.  Bounties are not placed on capsuleers based on their outlaw actions.  Other capsuleers put bounties on each other and themselves for lols, attention-seeking and advertisements.  No matter how many outlaw acts you commit, the only reflection on your record is your security status.  CONCORD never sets bounties on capsuleers for criminal acts.  No capsuleer places bounties on other capsuleers in order to punish them for criminal acts because that would be dumb, given the way things presently work.

You're arguing that the bounty system should continue to perform a role that it never performed.

Edit P.S.:  Part of CONCORD's mandate is regulating independent capsuleers and keeping them on a leash.  Gaining their "political support" seems superfluous.  CONCORD only answers to its signatories, and even then it's growing more independent as per the lore.
« Last Edit: 13 Oct 2012, 13:52 by Shaalira »
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #51 on: 13 Oct 2012, 20:14 »

I like the idea of automatic CONCORD bounties for criminal actions, but I can't think of a way to accomplish this that doesn't end up with people farming alts for free bounties.

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Lyn Farel

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #52 on: 14 Oct 2012, 04:41 »

I like the idea of automatic CONCORD bounties for criminal actions, but I can't think of a way to accomplish this that doesn't end up with people farming alts for free bounties.

The same way the new bounty system works. They could basically have kept the same system as it currently is, with their new restrictions : as long as the bounty paid is 20% of the destroyed assets value, I don't see a lot of ways to exploit that into alt farming. Maybe there is a way I haven't seen though.

Honestly, I like both, either a bounty system done to streamline the already existing mercenary system, or either a bounty system done to chase down bad guys like in the old western movies. I would be fine with both somehow, the first one ruled by a criminal/mercenary entity, and the second one by CONCORD. The second one would have the advantage to get a free pass from CONCORD to engage the target, even in high sec, as long as you have a license (like for a killright). And CONCORD would earn money.
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kalaratiri

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #53 on: 15 Oct 2012, 09:34 »

Some Inferno 1.3 patchnotes. Mainly Dust/Eve linking stuff. Little bit of general fixing for FW and Character creation as well.

http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=73456

Quote
Patch notes for EVE Online: Inferno 1.3

To be release on Tuesday, October 16, 2012

 

CHANGES

Market

The market has been seeded with infantry equipment however current trade restrictions prohibit the sale of such items to capsuleers.
Planetary Districts

New locations called "Districts" have been added to temperate planets in high security and factional warfare systems and are visible from space.
Districts can be warped to via the planet context menu.
A district satellite is visible while in orbit above a district in space.
District satellites will appear globally on the overview while there is a ship on grid with it, including cloaked ships.
A new group is available in the overview settings called Satellites, which can be used to show / hide them from your overview.
Factional Warfare

Planetary districts are future DUST514 battle zones, and impact Factional Warfare System Capture Status in a solar system.
Each district owned by a particular Factional Warfare faction affects the number of Victory Points needed to move a Factional Warfare system into a vulnerable state.
If a district owner is the same faction than the one controlling the Factional Warfare system, the number of Victory Points needed to put the solar system into vulnerable mode is increased
If a district owner is the opposing faction than the one controlling the Factional Warfare system, the number of Victory Points needed to put the solar system into vulnerable mode is decreased
Each temperate planet in Factional Warfare space contributes by 12.5% to the System Capture Status Victory Point pool, for a maximum of 50% Victory Points in Factional Warfare solar systems with four temperate planets.
Until DUST514 is fully implemented on Tranquility, planetary districts have been set to belong to the NPC faction that traditionally owned the Factional Warfare solar system before players interference.
An icon has been added below the System Capture Status bar to represent this new information.
Example

Raa is a 0.3 solar system located in Factional Warfare space.
Raa has 3 temperate planets, each having a certain number of districts. Each planet affects the System Capture Status by 12.5%, for a total of 37.5%.
Districts have been set to the NPC faction that historically and traditionally owned the solar system before player interference, in this case the Amarr Empire.
With such changes, it means the system will require 37.5% more Victory Points to capture if owned by the Amarr Empire FW militia, or 37.5% less Victory Points to capture if owned by the Minmatar Republic militia.
This change may move a FW solar system in or out of a vulnerable state after the patch depending on how many temperate planets are present during deployment time.
 

FIXES

Character Creation and New Player Experience

An issue with the Caldari Achura females bra straps always being visible has now been fixed.
A texture issue with female coats has been fixed.
A colouring issue with the male vest jacket has been fixed.
A tucking issue with the male Sterling shirts has been fixed.
An issue with missing sections on characters in stations has been fixed.
Player Owned Structures, Outposts and Stations

Calendars will now show the correct fuel values remaining for POS towers in empire space.
Miscellaneous

Fixed an issue where an enemy ships lock on your faction Infrastructure Hub in Factional Warfare would not be broken when defending the system.
Graphics General

Renai tailors have renovated their esquire line of jackets ensuring that the shoulders are firmly stuck to the sleeve and their owner. The female esquire jacket should no longer display a gap between the upper arm and the jacket.
Mesh clipping on the womens Acquire ´Structure´ Skirt has been reduced.
Occasional white flashes on cargo jettison with some graphics cards were fixed.
Enabling anti aliasing in the game menus has now an effect in the Character creator.
Fixed an issue with graphical corruption of the Caldari station wreck asset.
The planet wide 'oil spill' effect has been cleaned up on Dantbeinn II - the local environment is in a much better state now!
Resolved an issue where the medium ship LOD was not released from memory.
GENERAL

Uncategorized

Removed visible gaps from some clothing items were removed.
A selection of small geometry holes in Captains Quarters character clothing got fixed.
Sleeper drones now have more than one missile damage area.
Bombs detonation visual effect matches now server side hit information.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #54 on: 15 Oct 2012, 10:12 »

Does anyone else see any potential issues arising from pinning Dust gameplay mechanics to a broken facwar system in space?

Also: facwar planets only?

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kalaratiri

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #55 on: 15 Oct 2012, 11:04 »

Does anyone else see any potential issues arising from pinning Dust gameplay mechanics to a broken facwar system in space?

Also: facwar planets only?

Speaking of that: http://jestertrek.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/sundown.html

Quote from: Jester
However, I thought I'd start today by highlighting an announcement which CCP has made, but which most of you may have missed because they've gone to great lengths to hide the announcement:

Starting in 20 hours as I write this, tier 5 faction warfare pushes will almost certainly be impossible until after the release of DUST 514.  If you intend to cash out of faction warfare, better do it now.

How do I know this?  The details are in the patch notes they've released this morning.  On their face, they're minor preparatory changes intended to ready Tranquility for the release of DUST 514 which looks increasingly like it's going to be out at the same time as Retribution or so.  You certainly won't see any overt announcement that tier 5 will be impossible tomorrow.

But this is :CCP: we're talking about.  They don't exactly always announce this sort of nerf, do they?

By all means, go read the patch notes, because they discuss a major change to EVE Online Faction Warfare.  Still, the tl;dr version of the patch notes is that DUST 514 is going to affect FW capture status of any system with one or more temperate planets in it.  For each temperate planet to a maximum of four, 12.5% of the system's capture status will be controlled by DUST 514.  So if a system has two temperate planets, 75% of the system's capture will be governed by traditional EVE Online means and 25% will be controlled by DUSTies.

But until DUST 514 is implemented, those systems that have temperate planets in them will have those planets set to the faction that "traditionally" owns them.  And while that's going to make some systems between 12.5% and 50% easier to capture, it's also going to make other systems ("traditionally" Amarr systems, for instance) between 12.5% and 50% harder.  If a system traditionally controlled by Amarr has four temperate planets in it, 50% of the capture status of that system will be controlled by DUST 514 and EVE players in the Minmatar faction won't be able to change it.  Tomorrow.

Here's the two key lines straight from the patch notes:
Each temperate planet in Factional Warfare space contributes by 12.5% to the System Capture Status Victory Point pool, for a maximum of 50% Victory Points in Factional Warfare solar systems with four temperate planets.
Until DUST514 is fully implemented on Tranquility, planetary districts have been set to belong to the NPC faction that traditionally owned the Factional Warfare solar system before players interference.
Now I haven't done the math here but it seems quite likely to me that there are enough temperate planets in the FW systems to make pushing some of those systems to tier 5 impossible... and if that's true, then it seems equally likely to me that tier 5 overall is also going to be equally impossible.

Until DUST 514 starts being capable of helping with those tier 5 pushes, that is.  When that will be, CCP has not announced.  What changes CCP will have made to the mechanic for even getting to tier 5 have also not been announced.  But CCP Soundwave has stated that he does want to change those mechanics to make FW less about pushes to tier 5 every two weeks and more about the tiers reflecting the real status of the faction wars at any given time.

Anyway, I could be reading all of this wrong.  But I thought I'd read between the lines for those of you who might have missed it.  One more time: if you intend to cash out of FW, I'd do it today.

And if that sounds a little tinfoil hat-y: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2048369#post2048369

Quote from: CCP Fozzie
Hey everyone. I've got a few updates to our plan to share, including one change happening in Inferno 1.3 tomorrow and some tweaks to the earlier described plan taking into account all your excellent feedback and our conversations with the CSM. This stuff affects both this thread and the other one, but I'm just going to post it here because splitting it up doesn't make much sense to me. I'll just link to this post from there, and we can keep the combined feedback here.

Firstly, we have the Inferno 1.3 patch releasing tomorrow which will represent the beginning of the Empires' preparation for the storm of new immortal infantry they see on the horizon. Most of the changes will be invisible to capsuleers, with the significant exception of Empire influence being increasingly exerted on the temperate planets of their contested zones. The four Empires have all begun to construct installations on the surface of temperate planets within factional warfare space that allow them to affect the system control to a limited but noticeable degree.

At this point the installations are being set up by local militias allied with their ancestral nations, so the planet control is being exerted by the original owners of the system, from before any FW sovereignty changes. This means that until the new mercenaries of DUST 514 begin deployment, the planet control will belong to the historical owners based on region (or another way of putting it, the builders of the stargates in each system). For instance, all temperate planets in Black Rise will exert influence for the Caldari, and all temperate planets in The Bleak Lands will exert influence for the Amarrians.

This influence will take the form of an increase or decrease in the number of Victory Points required to make a system vulnerable. If the same Empire controls both the planet and the Infrastructure Hub, the system will become harder to conquer through a higher VP threshold. If one Empire holds the Ihub and the other holds the planets, the system will become easier to conquer through a lower VP threshold. The influence exerted by each temperate planet is 12.5% of the standard VP threshold in either direction. Most FW systems have either one or zero temperate planets, and the maximum number in any FW system is four, giving a maximum possible VP threshold influence of 50% (12.5*4).

This planet influence will be adjustable once the DUST 514 Mercs are unleashed, but in the meantime it will present a static adjustment of the landscape that may influence which systems each Militia chooses to reinforce and base from. This change will take effect with Inferno 1.3 tomorrow.
« Last Edit: 15 Oct 2012, 11:08 by kalaratiri »
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #56 on: 15 Oct 2012, 11:21 »

Does anyone else see any potential issues arising from pinning Dust gameplay mechanics to a broken facwar system in space?

Putting aside the temporary fix CCP has decided to use until DUST's release - yes, I very much do.


Quote
Also: facwar planets only?

IIRC, they're deploying DUST to facwar planets at first to iron out any serious issues before they expand it to sov-related stuff.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Lyn Farel

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #57 on: 15 Oct 2012, 13:07 »

Yeah of course, FW is more disposable than sov related stuff if something goes wrong.
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Laerise [PIE]

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #58 on: 15 Oct 2012, 13:48 »

Yeah of course, FW is more disposable than sov related stuff if something goes wrong.

Actually Lyn, it is. Then again, people who've been active in Factional Warfare since it's start and/or in the old live events that had some pewpew in them have also learned to roll with the punches.  :|
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kalaratiri

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Re: Retribution.
« Reply #59 on: 15 Oct 2012, 14:04 »

Yeah of course, FW is more disposable than sov related stuff if something goes wrong.

Actually Lyn, it is. Then again, people who've been active in Factional Warfare since it's start and/or in the old live events that had some pewpew in them have also learned to roll with the punches.  :|

And recently, get hilariously rich.
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"Eve roleplayers scare me." - The Mittani
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