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Author Topic: Basics of RP + Amarr question  (Read 3922 times)

Sentar Dethahal

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Basics of RP + Amarr question
« on: 11 Jul 2012, 18:33 »

Okay, so in advance if this is the wrong forum, I apologize.  It seemed like the most fitting based on descriptions.

I have really enjoyed reading about EVE's history and the backstories on almost everything.  One thing that does confuse me is the way roleplaying in EVE works.  What is considered public knowledge/canon, and how much player fiction is able to be used?  I am able to figure out the in character discussions and channels, but making sure I am not accidently basing something outside of the 'boundaries' is a bit more difficult.

Also, as far as the RP itself goes.  I am Amarrian, and despite the ability to just jump on the standard story, I find it seems a bit boring to me.  How plausible is it to go another route (something along the lines of resisting the Empress, Cult of Tetrimon)?  And if it is possible, would anyone recommend it?  Or is it likely to be just me really going along with it?

Any advice is good.  Once I figure out what I want to be doing, I figure I'll start on the backstory.  Better not to get too dedicated to something only to realize it isn't for me.
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #1 on: 11 Jul 2012, 18:38 »

On the contrary... being a loyalist doesn't mean it must be boring teacup sipping aristocracy. You can be a violently passionate hardliner, a traditionalist willing to spread the faith by any damn means necessary.

As for what you should and shouldn't know... the rule of thumb is something like... if the event happened behind closed doors, you probably don't know about it.

Casiella

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #2 on: 11 Jul 2012, 18:45 »

I'm no expert in Amarrian lore, but the Tetrimon Order still exists at this point in the timeline and I don't see anything particularly secret (although perhaps inconvenient to some characters) in their history.

If, however, your character suddenly knew a bunch of the behind-the-scenes stuff regarding Empress Jamyl vis-a-vis Sleepers or Terrans or the Broker, that would be somewhat more problematic.
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Sentar Dethahal

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #3 on: 11 Jul 2012, 19:11 »

Thank you both for the quick responses.

@Katrina
I guess that's a good point.  It all seems to kind of blur together for me at this point though, I guess I need to spend some more time reading up on it.

Ok, that makes sense.  What about Chronicles, etc?  Are only some of them going to be public knowledge then?

@Casiella
Right, that makes sense.  How possible would it be to really play in that way though?  You can't actually kill or remove the Empress, and siding with the Minmatar would be a pretty big failure RP-wise I would imagine.  That leaves me ranting and complaining, without any actual way to see progress.

What are thoughts on using a blank character, and are there many RP corporations that are still active?  Most of those linked on the old CCP thread are dead, and trying to find them outside of IGS or here is rather difficult.  I believe to really get into it, I would need others to work with, else I would be more apt to slowly lose interest.
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Casiella

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #4 on: 11 Jul 2012, 19:29 »

Oh, ignore the CCP thread. That's as out of date as my old Star Wars RPG books. I'm sure you will rapidly find lots of Amarrian corporations, though a character in opposition to the Empress and Theology Council might not fit in everywhere. And no, as you state, your character can never remove the Empress. But characters might quietly agitate against the Empire, whether in more subtle ways (sowing dissent and discord) or more open ones (active violence against the Empire). And they certainly don't know IC they can't eventually win!
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Silver Night

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #5 on: 11 Jul 2012, 19:29 »

You could be a supporter of a different house, who publicly supports the empress as a good amarrian should, but secretly agitates for her removal. Victory conditions in this scenario would be an erosion of support for her among capsuleers.

Sentar Dethahal

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #6 on: 11 Jul 2012, 19:54 »

@Casiella
Yes, I know the character wouldn't know it was impossible, but I'm more afraid about my own burnout over something that can't be done.  The biggest problem I see with going against the Empress is that I am sure if it was real, she would have me set KOS, or something to that effect.  Based off what has been written on her, I don't see her tolerating much dissent.  Not to mention she did a decent job of trying to appease those who were irritated by her return after her presumed death (Ardishapur come to mind).

@Silver Night
This seems like a decent possibility.  Namely supporting the Ardishapur family or something.  Would permit the support officially, while still wanting to see her replaced.

The other question is of course how to play this out?  Just post on IGS?  It seems that words are well and fine, but without actions, words are kind of pointless.  Thoughts/recommendations?

Also on a bit of a side note, I am slightly confused about the Ardishapur family.  They seem to be separate from the Cult of Tetrimon, but St. Tetrimon was actually born into that family?  Wouldn't that make the two more linked?
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Silver Night

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #7 on: 11 Jul 2012, 20:16 »

Well, on IGS you would maybe pay lip service to the Empress while focusing more on how great your house was (subtext being: so wouldn't they make a better emperor?). IG, publicly support the empire (and, as almost an afterthought, the empress, of course.) while carefully sounding out your Amarr loyalist peers for dissatisfaction with the empress.

I mean, you aren't, realistically, likely to change who runs the empire. But you can certainly play someone who is trying to build capsuleer support toward that end quietly.

Silas Vitalia

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #8 on: 11 Jul 2012, 20:59 »

Perhaps think more about your character's personality and then branch out to how this would influence their political outlook and actions?

A true believer, and accepting of information presented?

A true believer, and called to try and save the system from the inside? Tetrimon supporter, etc.

A cynic, playing politics like the Holders do?

these distinctions can be important for an Amarr RPer especially, since 'public dissent' is much more frowned upon than among some of the other factions.  Your public face and your private face may be very, very different things.

Some Amarr RPers are great at being subtle with public comments and keeping up a good face (Blake, for example), you might want to look up some of his posts to get a flavor for that sort of public interaction on IGS and channels.

Either way, figure out where your character is coming from and the politics should fall into place :)




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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #9 on: 11 Jul 2012, 21:35 »

Alternately, there is the practicalist: One who realises there is something odd about the Empress' return, but accepts her so long as she continues to rule well. The thing that distinguishes this from the Cynic as Silas summarized it is that while the Cynic acts primarily for personal gain, the practicalist believes the Empire can be bettered by accepting some change.


Honestly, considering the diversity of the positions that can be taken, you may be better off writing out your ideas and then submitting them for revision/discussion.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Sentar Dethahal

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #10 on: 11 Jul 2012, 21:56 »

Ok, there are definitely more intricacies and approaches available with an Amarrian background.

Will be thinking about it some more for sure.

Thanks to all for help and advice.
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Valdezi

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #11 on: 12 Jul 2012, 01:54 »

The Order of St. Tetrimon is mostly based in the Khanid Kingdom, since they were exiled by Heideran VII.

My character, for example, who is Khanid, sympathizes strongly with their ideals.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #12 on: 12 Jul 2012, 04:41 »

Do keep in mind that Tetrimon have been branded heretics by the Theology Council centuries ago for opposing the Great Reforms and the imperial governement in favor of the old Council of Apostles.

As said above you won't likely change anything PF wise (and the players' inability to change anything in the lore or with their factions has always been a great complaint of all the RPers around). But the lore and the PF are an enormous source of raw matter for RP that can be exploited in an infinite ways possible. It gives us RPers incentives to create conflict or friendly relations (or whatever) with other RPers and factions.

______________________________

A good advice would also be to read the most important wiki articles on the eve wiki : the slavery article, and the scriptures article. They are about very fundamental bits of lore in New Eden and for an Amarrian character, it is a lot better to know about them or your character might end up making a fool of himself.

Yes, the chronicles are often hardly possible to take into account ICly since it is mostly about personnal stories and stuff that is obviously not known by everyone and certainly not our characters. But they are sometimes very informatives on the universe, especially the first chronicles (the ones on CONCORD, the Khanid, the Blood Raiders, Vak'Atioth, etc etc). These first chronicles are not about personnal stories but general facts, and fundamental ones. They can also often be retrieved on the eve wiki either, where they are copied-pasted most of the time. Then, of course, a lot of Amarrian RPers could advise you to read some very amarrian oriented chronicles like Chained to the Sky, that bring a lot of information on specific things of the Amarrian society.

On the Amarr subfactions, you have actually one of the most important number of all factions at your disposal. And if Amarr is not enough for you, you still have the greater Empire that is constituted of the Amarr Empire, the Khanid Kingdom, and the Ammatar Mandate, that have their own subfactions (but more player created even if they are only logical).

Inside the Amarr Empire you have 5 royal houses, and a sixth that has one foot inside and one foot outside (Khanid). Each of them, much like the caldari megas if I have to use a stretched analogy, has its own subjects, its own culture, its own mindset.

The Ardishapur are the most pious and faithful of all, putting religion above everything else and in the center of everything of their daily lives. They are pretty conservative on that aspect, but often represent what we like to call the Amarrian Orthodox, or the center/loyalists (and they do not like at all the new zombie Empress).

The Sarum family is a family of hardliners that cling to the Reclaiming of old. They are primarily an expansionnist family that still think that all of New Eden must be reclaimed with force like in the old days. Their part in the mighty Amarr navy is second to none.

The Kador family are one of the oldest and richest imperial houses (well, they were the richest before Tash-Murkon came and laughed at them). They are what we can call the most traditionnalist since what concerns them is not so much religion, but secular traditions and what has made the Amarr Empire glorious like in the old days. The social ladder, the pompous ceremonies, all of this is important to them.

The Khanid family fot exiled since Khanid II refused to kill himself after the succession trials when Heideran VII got crowned. Now they are half back in the Empire (they have a seat in the Privy Council of the families, but no voice). Khanid are very pragmatic and closer to the Caldari. They are probably one of the less religious houses, even if religion still plays a big role. But they merely use it as an excuse for slavery for example. Somehow, this house is like the Amarrian society without a lot of its morale and ethics, "tainted" by the practical/amoral (not immoral, amoral here) Caldari business mindset.

Then you have the liberal families like Kor-Azor, that has always been very close to Heideran and Doriam external policies, seeking peace and prosperity with other factions (and trying to enlight them more liberaly behind, of course...). Kor-Azor is the main model of the proud Amarrian mindset, but thinking like liberals. Strong and righteous, but with a liberal approach.

Tash-Murkon come from a minor family and their heir built her own fortune herself with a mining corporation. They are the richest family by far and own one of the richest corporation in New Eden. Their success and unorthodox methods bring them in the liberal side. They also are of Udorian origin, and not True Amarr. Their ties with other external factions are strong and their trade flourishing.

Then you also have all the national public side of the Amarr Empire if I can call it like that, which includes all of what belongs to the Emperor family, so, what belongs to the amarrian state. Like the Amarr navy, all the ministries, all the "public" institutions. They have their own flavor and do not belong to private houses.

And then, all the minor cults and heretics, like Tetrimon, etc. And also, the political factions of the Khanid and the Ammatar....

So yes, I think there is a lot of choice.


I am Amarrian

Good luck.  :D
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Malcolm Khross

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #13 on: 12 Jul 2012, 05:06 »

Yay! More Ammarian RPers! One that looks pretty promising too!

The best advice I can offer as someone who RPed a liberal Amarrian for a while is to remember the Empire is a monolithic theocracy which is going to have levels of informational security built in to maintain the hierarchy.

Openly speaking against the Empress, Theology Council or Privy Council won't really get you in trouble (since you're a capsuleer) but it's likely to distance you from most of your brothers and sisters (fellow Amarrians) and any influence you may have been able to get in the Empire. A more realistic (and effective) way to oppose the establishment would be quietly. Play nice on IGS (avoid talking about the Empress or the Theology Council or whatever if you can but if you're in a corner, placate them), while secretly finding others of like mind to yourself and working to change the Empire from within.

Another good thing to know from the start is whether or not your character walks the path they walk because of religious, political, social or economical reasons as that will likely determine which groups they affiliate themselves with and why.
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Sentar Dethahal

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Re: Basics of RP + Amarr question
« Reply #14 on: 12 Jul 2012, 21:12 »

Internet was down all day/afternoon, but back now :)

Thanks for the clarification Mammal.

And Lyn, Holy cow is all I can think of.  Much appreciate all the information though!  I actually read your Amarr post on the New Eden global political roster thread too.  A ton of great and helpful information there.

A couple questions though...where do the Tetrimon/Theocrats end and the Ardishapur start?  Really, aren't both of them holding to the old scriptures before the Moral Reforms?

Also, are there any more 'complete' Scriptures?  Going off of the EVE wiki, there only seem to be a few tidbits to use.  What is the story behind it, for example why are the prophets included as part of it?

Malcolm, first off, just wanted to say I'm a bit of a fan.  My main is Caldari, so it is something I paid a lot more attention to at the start (and still do).  Thank you for the advice as well.

I know a lot of RP is really based on personal preference, but any direction would be helpful as well.  At first it seemed like there was too little variation, and know too much.  I am sure it will become easier the more I pay attention, but also know it is better to stay vague at the start rather than tie myself to a story.

I know that I don't want to be the only (or one of a couple) person taking the approach I end up using.  I did that on my first attempt at RP and it crashed and burned (also because I wasn't sure what to do).  I pretty much decided to take a break from it for a while so that I could make sure I do it right.  I'll study up on it some more, and any more advice would be terrific.

Thank you to everyone so far!
« Last Edit: 12 Jul 2012, 21:40 by Sentar Dethahal »
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