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[BloodBird]

I like my bitterVet status. I've earned it through 7 years of hard work

But honestly, if your pointers about veterancy and buddaVet's are accurate then, I see NO REASON at all to opt for option 1, I'm working on number 2, I keep hoping I'll get the chance to do option 3, and frankly if I'm to self-reflect much on this I'm on a freak-of-nature version of option 4; instead of channeling serenity and letting the bitter pass over me, I condense it into a ball of bitter dedication and use it to fuel my desires for options 2 and 3, and my continued disinterest in quitting EVE.

I'd like you to explain to me however how bittervets are the worst things about EVE. I can think of far, far worse.

[Ciarente]

I don't know if bittervets are the worst thing in all eve (personally I think that Aura's voice saying  'warp drive active' is the worst thing in Eve, but that might be because I ground tax-free refining standings for three corps on two characters through nothing but cargo runs) but I have had a few days when bitterRPvets have been the worst thing in my IG channels.

On the other hand, their stories about how cargo-expanders used to cost 20 million ISK back when an ISK was really worth something and veldspar had to be mined in frigates with pickaxes and EVA suits are pure gold.

[BloodBird]

"I recall back when I hunted down pirates and other wanna-be's flying in lone cruisers or trio's of T1 frigates utilizing nothing but a meta-fitted cruiser, all you sad, boring, spineless hac/recon/logi bloobers roaming in fleets of 50 or more just don't understand!" /bitterragingspree

Something like that?

Incidentally the above is a factor that I find somewhat sad and annoying... 

[Katrina Oniseki]

I'd like you to explain to me however how bittervets are the worst things about EVE. I can think of far, far worse.

but our vitriol and anger leach out and into the air (well, space) around us, poisoning everything they touch.

That's how, Bloodbird. As a relative newbie, I have had my excitement of EVE dashed several times by the whining rage of bittervets. It's the biggest reason I don't read certain official forums.

Nothing, not even CCP's monoclegate, has upset me more than 'bittervets' turning every little neat thing into another crapstorm. It's like that drunk buzzkill at a party, and I just wish they'd shut up go home.

[scagga]

Many can't go home.  The eve they cherished an called home is long lost.  I remember when the bleak lands were bleak, when there was barely anyone there to touch the kernite fields of myyhera..

[Silas Vitalia]

Bittervett-ism is hard to avoid when you can make pretty convincing arguments that the game actually 'was' -substantially- more interesting, more innovative, more dynamic, and more 'fun' many years ago, before little problems snowballed into game breaking issues. 

There are fundamental 'problems' that have remained unresolved and have propagated over the years without being addressed, stacking issue upon issue to everyone's detriment.

For example just to throw a few out there, bot-mining, wealth-creep to absurd levels, ridiculous proliferation of extremely rare and powerful ships without game-design means to limit their use and numbers, abandonment of story progression, that sort of thing.

In other words, the conditions that made the game amazing 5 or 6 years ago no longer exist.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Many can't go home.  The eve they cherished an called home is long lost.  I remember when the bleak lands were bleak, when there was barely anyone there to touch the kernite fields of myyhera..

Actually, by 'go home', I meant unsubscribe and go away.

[scagga]

Many can't go home.  The eve they cherished an called home is long lost.  I remember when the bleak lands were bleak, when there was barely anyone there to touch the kernite fields of myyhera..

Actually, by 'go home', I meant unsubscribe and go away.

Oh, I did that a while ago

Literature on problematic MMORPG use that I've consulted suggests that the social links people form in-game are one of the strongest maintaining factors of use, despite relatively losing interest in the game.

[Morwen Lagann]

This would explain why the chants of "hrr" in OOC didn't summon you the other night, Scagga.

[Victoria Stecker]

Nothing, not even CCP's monoclegate, has upset me more than 'bittervets' turning every little neat thing into another crapstorm. It's like that drunk buzzkill at a party, and I just wish they'd shut up go home.

Bittervett-ism is hard to avoid when you can make pretty convincing arguments that the game actually 'was' -substantially- more interesting, more innovative, more dynamic, and more 'fun' many years ago, before little problems snowballed into game breaking issues. 
....
In other words, the conditions that made the game amazing 5 or 6 years ago no longer exist.

Asshole mode, fighting bitter with bitter:
[spoiler]If it's really that bad then just fucking quit already so that those who still wish to can enjoy the game.

Edit: Sniped by Kat while typing wall o' text[/spoiler]

Normal mode, rational explanation:
I appreciate that CCP has fucked up their own game pretty good and proper. However, to a new player, there is still a ton that makes this game look awesome. I recall being blown away by the open gameplay when I was a newbie two years ago. I actually learned eve under the tutelage of a :bittervet: who could rail for hours about the shit CCP had done - but instead spent his time recruiting a bunch of newbs into a hisec missioning corp and teaching them the ropes, then leading the poor sods out to nullsec for some lols.

I appreciate that bitching about CCP and being nostalgic about times bygone is a very cathartic exercise for some people. And as a newb, the first few times you hear these stories, they're kinda neat.

The problem is that you don't hear them once in a while. You hear them all the time. It's like negative political advertising: Even if it's complete bullshit, if you hear it enough times it works its way into your mind and sticks.

So as a new player, or as a player trying to enjoy EVE, being constantly told how terrible this game is, how incompetent CCP is, how much better it all used to be, etc etc etc, is exatly was Cas said - poisonous. It becomes frustrating as an RPer sometimes because the people who have been around the longest and have the understanding of the lore and it's the most fun to pick there brains about a character concept can also be the people you want to avoild like the plague if you actually want to have fun in EVE.

TL;DR
I understand why you're bitter. Please keep it to yourself so as not to make new players bitter before their time*. They're still having fun.


* See Moros, Kybernetes

[Silas Vitalia]

Nothing, not even CCP's monoclegate, has upset me more than 'bittervets' turning every little neat thing into another crapstorm. It's like that drunk buzzkill at a party, and I just wish they'd shut up go home.

Bittervett-ism is hard to avoid when you can make pretty convincing arguments that the game actually 'was' -substantially- more interesting, more innovative, more dynamic, and more 'fun' many years ago, before little problems snowballed into game breaking issues. 
....
In other words, the conditions that made the game amazing 5 or 6 years ago no longer exist.

Asshole mode, fighting bitter with bitter:
[spoiler]If it's really that bad then just fucking quit already so that those who still wish to can enjoy the game.

Edit: Sniped by Kat while typing wall o' text[/spoiler]

The topic is "On veterans and bitterness" so this is the place to discuss that topic. I don't bring the bitter to new players or new player forums, so you can calm right down. 

[Victoria Stecker]

The topic is "On veterans and bitterness" so this is the place to discuss that topic. I don't bring the bitter to new players or new player forums, so you can calm right down.

That wasn't actually directed at you, you're one of the more pleasant vets. I probably could have left that out entirely, it was just a kneejerk reaction - once in a while, when rational explanation fails to get through, break out the sledgehammer for a bit, then go back to rational. At a minimum I should have clarified that it was directed at the more vitriolic bittervets even though I was quoting you. My derp.

The point is not so much that bitterness is unjustified - it most certainly is. In the two years I've been playing, I've had more than my share of  moments, and I didn't even have to live through TEA fucking over amarr and caldari RP, and thus far TonyG hasn't touched anything I care greatly about. I count myself lucky.

The point is that outspoken bitterness is detrimental to the game over time. It brings almost nothing valuable to the game or to the players. It saps the optimism of newbs who are exposed to it.

Veteran members of a game can be and are an invaluable resource to new players (especially in a game that doesn't include an instruction manual), but in EVE and EVE RP it can be hit or miss - some of them are really helpful and others essentially encourage you to quit.

[Ulphus]

I should probably try and make the transition to Buddhavet at some point -- but wow, that's hard. Not getting too badly bent out of shape just leads to my adoption of a fairly unmotivated stance.

So to paraphrase, either you don't engage, or you turn into Mr Grumpy?

If that's a fair translation, it describes a very familiar place...

[Kybernetes Moros]

So to paraphrase, either you don't engage, or you turn into Mr Grumpy?

If that's a fair translation, it describes a very familiar place...

Pretty good translation.

The challenge is trying to find a way to engage that doesn't lead to Mr. Grumpy.

[Seriphyn]

I guess I never really got bittervet with the roleplay at least because it's pretty damned hard to shit all over the Federation without fundamentally changing its essence. Even with the Black Eagles..."Oh, a constitutionally questionable organization has been formed? That's nice, I'll just be in my little bubble doing what I've always been doing"