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[Mathra Hiede]

... Ye of little faith.

Seriously, all the old timers bitching about RP being boring and too much fluffy cuddles should harden up and help fix it.

As a number of people will attest, I am currently trying to antagonize and create some epic conflict RP currently as seemingly very few people left want to.

The main issue when old timers like us try to "antagonize", they quickly end up being the public enemy number 1 to be shot down. And I am not even trying to speak about the average evil mustache twirling bad guy. This issue lies in the fact that this same people going into tea parties and fluffy social RP, complimenting each other at any time, tend to form a solid and compact group of people that now tends to constitutes the majority, the masse. When us old timers try to antagonize, often alone, the risk of being ICly ostracized is very high and you always have to play on the razor's edge. Another issue arises when you start to get the idea to gather other old timers that want to antagonize too : often, since they want to antagonize and are part of other factions, they just can't support your views to prevent that problem to happen. And the last issue is that by simply thinking like this, you insert a lot of OOC thinking behind something that should remain IC.

Lyn, first off - your replies are so hard to read D: Walls of text, but anyway back to the reply.

I would like to think that, while you make points that are certainly valid they don't have to remain so.
I would probably consider myself at least part of that 'mass' and have in part been part of hating on certain idealistic elements in the past, however I certainly don't want to ostracize anyone any more as we are so thin on the ground.

Perhaps the issues then, are on the methods of 'antagonizing' if you will, the way I am trying to create some RP is by creating a mutual understanding OOC before creating IC shenanigans, so instead of just declaring war and being a doosh on the IGS, talking to your opponent first and saying "Hey look, would you be up for (idea)?" so there is less but-hurt when suddenly you rain on their parade.

As for breaking the mold of group mentality, being able to perhaps find a mutual ground and reasonable elements to break the casing, if you will.

As for being part of a faction, that shouldn't be a deterant for RP, if the person is at least decent and most people here on backstage are then again, being able to find something to work together on isn't impossible even if your IC views are totally opposite, if your issue is an OOC one then sorry its probably not worth looking in that area for RP anyway.

So essentially what I am saying is that the bar seems to be the unwillingness for people to talk, OOC/IC whatever and come to a common ground to collaboratively create things so I again reiterate my view of the problem being US.

So, get off your bitter-vet pedestals and if your complaining look at what you could possibly do to create something, and yes I AM a bitter-vet so I can talk as I am trying to move myself out of a place where I was content to bitch to one where I am actively trying to build stuff to do.

[Techie Kanenald]

Maybe I'm one of the few here, but I have to wonder what happens when you don't want to be god or godlike.  Maybe I've burnt myself out by playing one too many heroes in other games, but what interests me these days is not the guy who's the hero, but who's the everyday joe.

If there are others like me, what are we to do around all the Gods?  Just serve because we don't want to be you?  Or are we in the wrong game again?

[BloodBird]

Maybe I'm one of the few here, but I have to wonder what happens when you don't want to be god or godlike.  Maybe I've burnt myself out by playing one too many heroes in other games, but what interests me these days is not the guy who's the hero, but who's the everyday joe.

If there are others like me, what are we to do around all the Gods?  Just serve because we don't want to be you?  Or are we in the wrong game again?

The 'gods' are not gods at all. They are petty, self-decieving fools with delusions of greatness clouding their vision. There are thousands more like them, each the same as the last, each the same as the next. Petty. Egotistical. Self-absorbed. Worthless.

Their only danger lies in direct challenge for the unweary and clueless - ignoring them and making yourself invisible is your greatest asset - they can't see what they don't care with and they don't care with those who are well out of their way - their are to many of their compatriots in-line for thier anger.

Let them have their squables and petty conflicts of minds and ships; while they waste their time plotting the ends of each other, you work undisturbed, in peace, dealing with your things.

... so yeah, even from an IC pow there are plenty of ways you can marginalize the effects of those you don't agree with, IC or OOC. "A god am I" toons might think themselves superior to your toon, but why should yours care, long as they are not in his/her/it's way? Cluster's huge and you should have the space to keep them out of your hair.

[Jev North]

You can chestbeat because you're controlling a bigass starship with plenty of guns, or you can consider that for all the fame and power you have, you owe it mostly to being a genetic freak and therefore usable as a glorified targeting computer. Works either way, really, and the tension field between the extremes of that scale is where, in my opinion, the interesting stuff happens.

[Lyn Farel]

... Ye of little faith.

Seriously, all the old timers bitching about RP being boring and too much fluffy cuddles should harden up and help fix it.

As a number of people will attest, I am currently trying to antagonize and create some epic conflict RP currently as seemingly very few people left want to.

The main issue when old timers like us try to "antagonize", they quickly end up being the public enemy number 1 to be shot down. And I am not even trying to speak about the average evil mustache twirling bad guy. This issue lies in the fact that this same people going into tea parties and fluffy social RP, complimenting each other at any time, tend to form a solid and compact group of people that now tends to constitutes the majority, the masse. When us old timers try to antagonize, often alone, the risk of being ICly ostracized is very high and you always have to play on the razor's edge. Another issue arises when you start to get the idea to gather other old timers that want to antagonize too : often, since they want to antagonize and are part of other factions, they just can't support your views to prevent that problem to happen. And the last issue is that by simply thinking like this, you insert a lot of OOC thinking behind something that should remain IC.

Lyn, first off - your replies are so hard to read D: Walls of text, but anyway back to the reply.

I would like to think that, while you make points that are certainly valid they don't have to remain so.
I would probably consider myself at least part of that 'mass' and have in part been part of hating on certain idealistic elements in the past, however I certainly don't want to ostracize anyone any more as we are so thin on the ground.

Perhaps the issues then, are on the methods of 'antagonizing' if you will, the way I am trying to create some RP is by creating a mutual understanding OOC before creating IC shenanigans, so instead of just declaring war and being a doosh on the IGS, talking to your opponent first and saying "Hey look, would you be up for (idea)?" so there is less but-hurt when suddenly you rain on their parade.

As for breaking the mold of group mentality, being able to perhaps find a mutual ground and reasonable elements to break the casing, if you will.

As for being part of a faction, that shouldn't be a deterant for RP, if the person is at least decent and most people here on backstage are then again, being able to find something to work together on isn't impossible even if your IC views are totally opposite, if your issue is an OOC one then sorry its probably not worth looking in that area for RP anyway.

So essentially what I am saying is that the bar seems to be the unwillingness for people to talk, OOC/IC whatever and come to a common ground to collaboratively create things so I again reiterate my view of the problem being US.

So, get off your bitter-vet pedestals and if your complaining look at what you could possibly do to create something, and yes I AM a bitter-vet so I can talk as I am trying to move myself out of a place where I was content to bitch to one where I am actively trying to build stuff to do.

Definitly, my points are not to remain so. I merely tried to state facts that I usually face, or see, or experience.

Also, I am not especially targeting the people on backstage, but the greater RP community (the summit especially, anyone ?). The fact is that a lot of people actually WANT to play that way, and I am certainly not going to tell them to do otherwise. It just happens that it creates the incompatibilities of RP I refered above (hard to antagonize with huge and solid mass buddies supporting each others).

Ah, and sorry for my last post, I usually try to make them clearer and create numerous alineas and paragraphs. Also, I run my screen in 1980 x 1200 px, so for me, that was definitly not a wall of text...

[Mathra Hiede]

[ANTI PYRAMID QUOTES >_>]

Definitly, my points are not to remain so. I merely tried to state facts that I usually face, or see, or experience.

Also, I am not especially targeting the people on backstage, but the greater RP community (the summit especially, anyone ?). The fact is that a lot of people actually WANT to play that way, and I am certainly not going to tell them to do otherwise. It just happens that it creates the incompatibilities of RP I refered above (hard to antagonize with huge and solid mass buddies supporting each others).

Ah, and sorry for my last post, I usually try to make them clearer and create numerous alineas and paragraphs. Also, I run my screen in 1980 x 1200 px, so for me, that was definitly not a wall of text...

I was being a little tongue in cheek with the wall of text comment, I run a 1920x1080 as well, probably should have called it a block of text

And yes, I agree whole heartedly with you there, now that I know we are essentially talking about the same thing with different words a lot of people DO like to RP that way and as you said, who are we to tell them 'ur-doing-it-wrong' but despite that I do wish they would be more open and interesting... give me character depth! D:

Hence why I like backstage so much, the people here are numerous and with almost all factions represented in some way so most RP stories/events/shenanigans have good people to work with in our subsection of the community.

This has the benefit of being people you can enjoy the RP with and if suddenly the larger masses of other peeps want to join in? Well then suddenly we have started to fix the main issues :3

[Malcolm Khross]

Malcolm's a diplomat because he has to be, not because he wants to be. He understands the need for an eventual resolution to the conflict between the nations and so he works toward that resolution.

He's more than willing to blow up people along the way though... >.>

[Bastian Valoron]

Maybe I'm one of the few here, but I have to wonder what happens when you don't want to be god or godlike.  Maybe I've burnt myself out by playing one too many heroes in other games, but what interests me these days is not the guy who's the hero, but who's the everyday joe.

If there are others like me, what are we to do around all the Gods?  Just serve because we don't want to be you?  Or are we in the wrong game again?

What you describe would be an ideal circumstance for RP. You are the guy who wakes up from coma in the future, it was your ship which crashed on an alien planet, you're not called Mahasamatman, you're just Sam. God's don't have a choice, you have.

[Morwen Lagann]

Modern day's tendency for people to go "pix or stfu" and require in-game proof for actions committed is suffocating the hell out of the RP community, because RPers are not often movers and shakers. Good RP shouldn't exclusively require a list of in-game achievements to back it up.

Agreed on all three points there - it is, we usually aren't, and it shouldn't - but what it does require is mutual respect between all involved parties and a willingness to cooperate on an OOC level (should the need arise) to make things run smoothly and enjoyably for everyone, like Math'ra said.

Unfortunately, after nearly ten years of conflict (for some, anyway), sometimes things have become too deeply ingrained to allow for that. When you consider the very real results of losing in EVE, it isn't really that surprising - you can lose years of hard work and effort, the equivalent of thousands of dollars, even, overnight or in seconds, just because of something as simple as you (or someone else with the power to) having checked the wrong box next to someone's name in the corporation management interface, something that is very hard to duplicate in other games.

I also agree with some other folks in the thread - even if we're all "demi-gods" or whatever, there's still going to be a wide range of "godliness" within that group. Personally I err towards the "slightly-above-average joe" end of the spectrum because I find it more interesting and a better use of my time - I don't really have the spare time (anymore) to even consider doing things that'd qualify as "godlike" in scope, and as I'd rather actually get things done IC than spend time planning for something I wouldn't have the means to do even if I did have the time, I stay away from that sort of thing.

Doesn't mean I'm not necessarily up for being involved in someone else's plans if it makes sense for me IC, but the odds of me trying to generate my own are fairly low.

[Silas Vitalia]

Don't forget that no matter how wealthy or powerful or elite people are, they do still suffer from the same emotional deficiencies as everyone else.

The old royalty of Europe, the Emperors of Rome, the Pharaos of Egypt, they all were jealous, scheming, and just as concerned over stupid human gossip and opinions as our capsuleers are among each other.

[Merdaneth]

Don't forget that no matter how wealthy or powerful or elite people are, they do still suffer from the same emotional deficiencies as everyone else.

They suffer from it more, since they are often at liberty to express these deficiences and not end up dead, outcast or otherwise rather quickly.

[Silas Vitalia]

Don't forget that no matter how wealthy or powerful or elite people are, they do still suffer from the same emotional deficiencies as everyone else.

They suffer from it more, since they are often at liberty to express these deficiences and not end up dead, outcast or otherwise rather quickly.

That's a very good point. Even less social restrictions to keep baser instincts in check.  Sabik for everyone!

[Matariki Rain]

I'm seeing two different--and essentially opposed--approaches here. A number of people are calling for more conflict leading to shooting things, while Isvaan's been waxing nostalgic about a quite different narrativist approach where apparently people told stories about their deeds of glory rather than actually doing them.

Couple that with even the "Moar conflict!" types wanting to negotiate their conflicts in advance (which for my EVE-RP set-of-customs is a no-no), and I'm reminded that we're playing fairly fundamentally different games.

[Bastian Valoron]

When Istvaan Shogaatsu is seen in New Eden, he always seems to be treated as a being who has transcended beyond simple capsuleership. He seems to be accept the role and acts accordingly. Those who are of lesser resourcefulness and tied to more mundane squabbles, tend not to challenge him as this could mean making enemies they are not prepared to face. It may get lonely up there but isn't it a part of being godlike? Isn't the boredom of gods one of the classical motivations for their interference in mortal affairs?

I think the game mechanics is working pretty well here and what is especially cool is that with fame and ability you can make people to play along, whether they are role-players or not.

If a powerful being approaches a random capsuleer, to ease the boredom, and asks what does he want, he will tell he wants to blow up those who smacked them in local, kill all their associates, kill everyone who comes after them and destroy everything in their possession. There's a strong motivation, good direction, practical implementation and built-in narrative ready. The situation will no doubt play out differently if the capsuleer being approached is not just some random pilot but someone role-playing an average joe who prioritizes friendship over personal pride or ideals.

[Lyn Farel]

I'm seeing two different--and essentially opposed--approaches here. A number of people are calling for more conflict leading to shooting things, while Isvaan's been waxing nostalgic about a quite different narrativist approach where apparently people told stories about their deeds of glory rather than actually doing them.

Couple that with even the "Moar conflict!" types wanting to negotiate their conflicts in advance (which for my EVE-RP set-of-customs is a no-no), and I'm reminded that we're playing fairly fundamentally different games.

I enjoy playing to both.