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[Jade Constantine]

The ONLY good thing about this is that the one person on the CSM who really should not be there is not there anymore. Let's hope he will be barred from the CSM forever onwards, then we can all breathe easier for EVE's sake.

BS. Mittani was a douche, but the CSM was better with him then without him.

It really wasn't


I always take exception with the notion that somehow Alexander Gianturco (the Mittani) was that useful during the Incarna crisis in eve online last year.

***

The problem is a Mittani-led CSM6 didn’t represent “the players” either. It represented a selection of nullsec voting blocs interests without really caring about the wider issues in the game. CSM6 was noteworthy for removing transparency and accountability from the CSM process (no more internal meeting minutes) for cloaking decision making behind committee head (we couldn’t see who believed what) and for initially schmoozing with the MT devs when they should have been protesting Incarna.

Lets remember Mittani is infamous for getting drunk with CCP Monocle and telling him that the players of Eve would be cool with a “gold scorpion” purchased entirely with Aurum and no other input. (which breaks the essential economy of the game)

First formal summit CSM came home from Iceland with nothing but a badly written set of formal minutes (that took MONTHS to agree) and did nothing to answer player fears about Incarna whatsoever and would lead on to the release of possibly the worst “expansion” in Eve Online’s history.

Rage happened and it was rage from the player base with the Jita Riots and beginning of the unsub protest.

During the “emergency summit” Mittens appeared on Eve TV with CCP thousand dollar jeans in a joint address assuring people it was all sorted and everyone was happy now. He came back from the summit with a Nevil Chamberlain-esq “peace in our time” paper that did absolutely NOTHING to mollify the rage and anger of the Eve player base.

Protests continued, threadnaughts continued, unsubs continued.

The only thing that turned the CCP ship around was the public Mea culpa from Hilmar and announcement of the crunch to Crucible and significant restructuring of the company.

Now in this I say to you that Alexander Gianturco as chair provided very POOR leadership and representation of the player base and didn’t at any time have a full grasp of precisely what people were protesting about.

And of course then we had the christmas minutes which were another fiasco. Released late and indistinct, with the CSM being refered to as “the csm” (not individual reps) and being on record as anonymously saying some very stupid things about game development and priority.

Wormholes -what are they?
FW -is for noobs isn’t it?
Hisec -lol carebears?

There was a player backlash and some of the rest of the CSM broke ranks with Gianturco and announced they had personally been “for” or “against” certain things to assure people they were not part of the collective.

What did Gianturco achieve?

I think his legacy is in removing transparency and accountability from the CSM and turning into a skype channel social club for nullsec alliance leaders to get their jollies from drinking in Iceland. He will be remembered as the guy who gave CCP Monocle the nod on MT delivery of spaceships, the guy that appeared with CCP thousand dollar jeans and said “crisis what crisis” and the guy that tried to run CSM like the goonswarm executive division pulling strings and puppet-mastering the other reps and announcing all decisions in an eery (but unbelievable) unity.

And finally. He’ll be forever remembered as the unacceptable face of cyber-bullying and player harrassment in Eve Online in a role that puts him up there with Aris Bakhtanians as a villain then gaming media can get behind condemning. His drunken antics in calling a player to be harrassed to suicide with a wizards hat and cheesy smile will never be forgotten.

Nor will his 11th hour attempt to cling onto power by having his sychophants on the CSM forge a shoddy compromise with CCP where he kept his position despite clear breach of CSM guidelines and basic Eve code of conduct that would have any other player booted to a ban immediately.

So even when he could have kept some dignity by simply resigning as promised he waited too long and got kicked out proving himself a failure even in choosing the manner of his own demise.

Eve online and the CSM is far the better for this guy leaving the stage.


***

CSM better with him than without?
Absolutely not.

[Mizhara]

I think that's a bit much. I'll just stick with 'immature.'

Quotes of Mittani:

"This entire situation made it obvious to me that I can no longer be an alliance leader of goonswarm which is an alliance based around ****ing with people, let's be honest...what some people would call cyber-bullying..."
"Goonswarm was born of grief and shaped for the infliction of misery. Once exposed to it ourselves we adopted it, refined it, and loosed it upon the rest of Eve."
"You want to kill things and hurt people. Shush... I know you do: it's OK. Things that belong to real people who will usually be very upset, and will very often tell you so. If you are even moderately lucky then occasionally they will be so upset that they tell you that they will hunt you down and kill you, and you will then get them banned for life."
"I suspect that the cries of protest when we begin hitting Jita will make the Ice Interdiction sound like old Manilow tracks played through a de-tuned Muzak speaker at half volume in an elevator full of incontinent chimpanzees. Everyone uses Jita – alliances, humble traders, mega-jews, legions of market bots, you name it. Ice miners could escape our Interdiction by moving away, but ruining Jita will ruin, erm… everything. It will be like surrounding the New York Ѕtock Exchange, the Board of Trade, and the Federal Reѕerve with a ring of armored vehicles and shelling them all, simultaneously, until the entire economic system flies apart at the seams."

Small tastes of sociopathic tendencies.

[Silver Night]

Generally speaking, intentionally causing lag in order to grief (which is what this will likely amount to) is considered an exploit - though it's rarely come up since they got most of the servers upgraded. There is precedent, though (Zombies, container traps, etc.)

[Silas Vitalia]

I think that's a bit much. I'll just stick with 'immature.'

Quotes of Mittani:

"This entire situation made it obvious to me that I can no longer be an alliance leader of goonswarm which is an alliance based around ****ing with people, let's be honest...what some people would call cyber-bullying..."
"Goonswarm was born of grief and shaped for the infliction of misery. Once exposed to it ourselves we adopted it, refined it, and loosed it upon the rest of Eve."
"You want to kill things and hurt people. Shush... I know you do: it's OK. Things that belong to real people who will usually be very upset, and will very often tell you so. If you are even moderately lucky then occasionally they will be so upset that they tell you that they will hunt you down and kill you, and you will then get them banned for life."
"I suspect that the cries of protest when we begin hitting Jita will make the Ice Interdiction sound like old Manilow tracks played through a de-tuned Muzak speaker at half volume in an elevator full of incontinent chimpanzees. Everyone uses Jita – alliances, humble traders, mega-jews, legions of market bots, you name it. Ice miners could escape our Interdiction by moving away, but ruining Jita will ruin, erm… everything. It will be like surrounding the New York Ѕtock Exchange, the Board of Trade, and the Federal Reѕerve with a ring of armored vehicles and shelling them all, simultaneously, until the entire economic system flies apart at the seams."

Small tastes of sociopathic tendencies.

I'm not saying he's not an asshole, and a double asshole with regards to a computer game, but the world is full of asshole internet trolls and they aren't all sociopaths.  People get a bit Superman S on their chests when they get on the internt, and doubly so when a few thousand people look to you as their 'leader.'

You can still be a major asshole in the game and only a minor one in the real world

 

[Merdaneth]

Generally speaking, intentionally causing lag in order to grief (which is what this will likely amount to) is considered an exploit - though it's rarely come up since they got most of the servers upgraded. There is precedent, though (Zombies, container traps, etc.)

Personal griefing isn't allowed. No specifically trying to make the game rotten for a single player...

[Morwen Lagann]

I think it's a little silly for people to be complaining about others demonstrating sociopathic tendencies in EVE.

The game itself encourages this kind of behavior.

[Jade Constantine]

Generally speaking, intentionally causing lag in order to grief (which is what this will likely amount to) is considered an exploit - though it's rarely come up since they got most of the servers upgraded. There is precedent, though (Zombies, container traps, etc.)

Rather than some ban-hammer I'm rather hoping that the ninja salvaging community turn it into a farce and everyone from the rest of eve just has a laugh getting bnc's on (slow motion) exploding Mittani tornados.

[Louella Dougans]

does this mean there might not be any more alliance panel type things at future fanfests ?

so teh only presentations will be ones by an official CCP person, and not from any "normal" players ?

[Matariki Rain]

does this mean there might not be any more alliance panel type things at future fanfests ?

so teh only presentations will be ones by an official CCP person, and not from any "normal" players ?

I haven't seen any suggestion of that. More "Edgy? Sure, it's one of the things that make EVE 'EVE'. Over the edge? Not so much."

[Jev North]

Ye gods, I just looked at the forums. How many hundred pages? What a farce.

I agree with CCP's assessment that a line was crossed - but a "30 day ban" line, not the "unto him and his descendants, yea, until the seventh generation" line some people seem to think it is. I've no doubt it would've been a complete non-event if it was about anybody else.

[Morwen Lagann]

I've no doubt it would've been a complete non-event if it was about anybody else.

This. SO FUCKING MUCH, THIS.

[Matariki Rain]

I've no doubt it would've been a complete non-event if it was about anybody else.

This. SO FUCKING MUCH, THIS.

Depends what you mean by non-event. It probably wouldn't have spawned megathreads and CSM consequences, but apparently others have been banned for longer for comparable actions.

[Louella Dougans]

does this mean there might not be any more alliance panel type things at future fanfests ?

so teh only presentations will be ones by an official CCP person, and not from any "normal" players ?

I haven't seen any suggestion of that. More "Edgy? Sure, it's one of the things that make EVE 'EVE'. Over the edge? Not so much."

there was a bit in one of the latest devblogs.

"Following internal discussions after everyone has returned to their offices from Fanfest, it is clear that we, CCP, need to revise the scope of the Alliance Panel for Fanfest 2013 because, frankly, EVE Online has grown to a maturation point where such behavior and such a forum are not appropriate"

and

"Should we choose to hold an Alliance Panel next year, we will still aim for comedic player-agency over the content, but will be very careful to create a different setting for the event."

from: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28575

the "should we choose" bit, is a bit ominous ?

[Morwen Lagann]

That's exactly the point. Nobody would've given a flying shit. There would not have been threadnaughts, there wouldn't have been (horrifically shitty) media coverage, and there wouldn't be people talking about it all over.

You typically don't hear about people getting banned unless they're bots (♥ Sreegs) or you are connected to them by one or two degrees of separation (alliance/corpmates, alliance/corpmates of friends, etc.). Whether this is due to the fact that you're technically not supposed to discuss moderation and GM actions taken against you on official venues or not is unclear, but I'd doubt it's not part of it.

The only reason this is such a big fucking deal is because it happened to the Mittani, and stupid amounts of people have issues with Goons. You wouldn't have seen this for very many other people in the larger EVE community - I can only think of a handful people for whom this sort of thing might have garnered a similar response: EVE's so-called "celebrities", a group that Mittens belongs to.

[Matariki Rain]

Louella, fair point about the "if" regarding an alliance forum next year. I guess we'll see, and that might take a while.

That's not the only player voice at Fanfest, though: a number of the talks this year were given by players, and the round tables are largely player-focused. That was the other part of your post that I was responding to.