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Author Topic: Three new chrons?  (Read 9062 times)

Mithfindel

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #30 on: 04 May 2012, 14:49 »

Yep, that chron is pretty much "all space Empires must be Imperium of Mankind" type. Hunting "counterfeit" scripture is something I understand, and missions have before referenced the player levelling "heretics", but some of the stuff on the chron is a bit overblown.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #31 on: 04 May 2012, 14:57 »

Yep. I'm taking the "story is full of crock" route with this.

Personally, I see some significance in that the Evelopedia has not had any references to the Pax Ammaria (spelling intended) added to it. The "well they wouldn't know because the MIO covered it all up" argument doesn't work here either, because Evelopedia is full of tons of stuff we can't possibly know IC.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Alain Colcer

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #32 on: 04 May 2012, 15:01 »

http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=135&tid=4

louella, how can you search such new snippets so far back in time? i've been able to find old news items for gallente related stuff but the new website format keeps screwing with me
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #33 on: 04 May 2012, 15:51 »

http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=135&tid=4

louella, how can you search such new snippets so far back in time? i've been able to find old news items for gallente related stuff but the new website format keeps screwing with me

google :\

google found the "book of eve", which is a player-made compilation of news articles, chronicles, short stories etc.

http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/SantaClaw/EVE_News.pdf

and yes, the new website thing doesn't always seem to have the "related" things, you know, it had a list of things the news article was filed under? click on "emperor family" to get a list of news articles about the Emperor Family etc.
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BloodBird

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #34 on: 04 May 2012, 16:46 »

And it's for this reason I sometimes pity Jesmine.

...and myself for playing her. Dealing with the IC back-lashes of the Fed's history etc. is one thing, but the Empire consistently becomes this absurd caricature drawing that's just all out of proportion.

"This village here might have ONE COPY of a book we want burned. MIGHT.HAVE.ONE.COPY. Might. Maybe.

Let's not even bother to go make sure, because we don't really give a shit about our own citizens, nope. Let's nuke the site from orbit and send a few hundred thousand Amarr to God ahead of time because there MIGHT BE A FUCKING BOOK IN THE VILLAGE THAT WE DON'T LIKE.

Yes of course. Because with a fleet of warships, or even just one ship, it's impossible to send down enough troops to secure the entire village and search it, or in worst case, bring out all the people THEN torching the place. That would make sense - we are the fucking evil empire so let's instead do the most idiotic-over-the-fucking-top thing we can and kill everyone and scorch the place. Just to make sure.

I though Tony G left CCP, this smells badly of his brand of Empire-hating bullshit.

Ironically that's what I'll consider this article. None of my toons have any reason to believe such an absurd story so if anyone, ANYONE, comes out and claims the Empire did this to their own over a book or whatever, that's what I'll tell them. "Bullshit." Then I'll tell them OOC where the issue lies and how the not-retconned-to-shit facts stand on the matter.
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hellgremlin

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #35 on: 04 May 2012, 19:06 »

I think you lot complaining about the Amarr Empire being made to sound like something out of 40k are pretty misguided.

We're talking about a race that saw fit to expand into space so they could find lesser cultures to crush and enslave. They're not nice people. They're a people who are accustomed to the sight of slaves in day-to-day life, and they're OK with it morally. If cultures are to be judged by how they treat their weakest members, this is one sick puppy of a culture. The Amarr would be right at home in 40k's hilariously over-the-top megadeath universe.

Answering a misprint of a book with a typo with OTT oppressiveness and brutality is precisely what I'd expect a slave-driving theocratic empire to pull off. Nuking a village that contains a copy is a surefire way of stopping the heresy from spreading, after all. The neighboring villages and towns will see a lance of light like the finger of god striking down into a nearby area, and shortly afterward, air-dropped leaflets will inform them that their neighbors have been judged wanting in the eyes of the Lord, and that they should not mourn the former den of heretics turned smoldering crater. Thus the faithful are encouraged to redouble their faith, and the wayward are warned to submit. Praise the lord and cycle the tachyons.
« Last Edit: 04 May 2012, 19:39 by hellgremlin »
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Aldrith Shutaq

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #36 on: 04 May 2012, 19:18 »

Was the American South during the time of slavery okay with obliterating one of their own cities over a book?

Was the Roman Empire?

Were the Greeks?

Now, Rome and Greece burnt towns and villages to the ground all the time when they were conquering them or quelling full-blown rebellion. Not in peace time because there was some vaguely threatening document supposedly in the general vicinity. I'm alright with bad things happening, just not them being so utterly implausible it's mind-boggling.

Another thing is that this chron is utterly confusing. Why is half of the Empire trying to destroy a book written by the Emperor himself? Is it really because of an error, or did the Emperor write something heretical? Why is the book so dangerous? Why does EVERYBODY have to die? Nothing is explained.
« Last Edit: 04 May 2012, 19:51 by Aldrith Shutaq »
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hellgremlin

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #37 on: 04 May 2012, 19:44 »

Rome and Greece were actually relatively small nations. Not very densely populated. We're talking about a nation that contains dozens of populated worlds and hundreds of colonies.
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Mathra Hiede

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #38 on: 04 May 2012, 19:49 »

Was the American South during the time of slavery okay with obliterating one of their own cities over a book?

Was the Roman Empire?

Were the Greeks?

Now, Rome and Greece burnt towns and villages to the ground all the time when they were conquering them or quelling full-blown rebellion. Not in peace time because there was some vaguely threatening document supposedly in the general vicinity. I'm alright with bad things happening, just not them being so utterly implausible it's mind-boggling.

I can imagine it being run more like the most brutal and incomprehensibly nasty inquisition however.

Lone Ordinators in search of single copies locking down an entire village / city district and forcing the damned book to the surface so that the owner can be burn't slowly to death and his records wiped from the registers of all Imperial documents.

...but ORBITALLY bombarding a village? Yeah no. The realities of deploying that sort of fire-power is just stupid - orbital bombardments are basically nuke like, so the Amarr randomly like nuking themselves? yeah no.

Along with PF inconsistencies... just, wtf-is-this-shit.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #39 on: 05 May 2012, 02:33 »

It does seem extreme,  but as a thought, this IS an extreme universe. Even the Federation is far more extreme because of its libertarianism. We might be expecting easily relateable and familiar nations. The Gallente have spore launchers embedded in city flora as a form of semi-narcotic advertising. That's just as wierd, in its own way, of eradicating a village based on a book.
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Ghost Hunter

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #40 on: 05 May 2012, 02:39 »

Why obliterate villages/residental sectors with orbital bombardment, when you can enslave them for reeducation and the Empires' seemingly unending need for human labor resources?

They can't be any  ideologically worse than the non-Empire slaves that are brought in under the Reclaiming.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #41 on: 05 May 2012, 02:53 »

Yeah, maybe. Maybe they can't be fucked with spending the resources. Authoritarian states IRL don't have a great track record, and Amarr are most definitely authoritarian.

It seems there are two EVEs here...one is a caricature Gallente who clumsily try to colonize others because freedom is good but they actually have no idea what they're doing...another is that they demonstrate strong political restraint with a light government footprint, while still being able to push their goals through more subtle and covert means. Same with the Empire...a stable beast full of necessary evils, having preserved countless races from killing each other off by enslaving them...or just evil.

Internet culture is quite liberal and alternative thinking. It's why Minmatar and Caldari get a better job, since they represent 'alternative' societies, despite their gaping issues.
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BloodBird

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #42 on: 05 May 2012, 03:08 »

The most offensive part to me is right here;

" As the hunt became harder, frustrations mounted and methods became more extreme, and more and more sightings were referred directly to the Ministry's elite Ordinators. Quiet infiltration operations gave way to screaming dropships disgorging armored troops into sleepy bookstores, which in turn gave way to orbital strikes against entire settlements suspected of harboring a lone copy. The Ordinators were fanatical in their pursuit and uncompromising in their methods."

Suspected. Not confirmed, or in any way sure. They obliterated entire settlements because there MIGHT be a book there, ignoring even the idea that they should double-check, or confirming that the people in the settlement was in any way in on it. Ergo, even if there was some lone person hiding in the town pretending to be a modest, innocent settler along his own faithful fellows, with a special printing-mistake in a locked chest somewhere, the Ordinators would just kill him/her along with ever single other perfectly innocent citizen just to make sure, and it wasn't even guaranteed that there was a copy there. That's not grim-dark, that down-right idiotic and moronically incompetent.

"Sup guys, I hear there may be, possibly be this guy, in Dam Torsod, hiding out with a few of these books. Maybe. Bring ya fleets and let's go glass the capital, just to be safe, yeah?"

Another annoying factor is that not even the 40k Imperium is this idiotic - the Imperium, on occasional, burn entire planets down. But this nearly always has a good reason behind it - full-fledged heretical chaos incursion that will be/has so far proven to be far to costly to remove, massive alien invasions that will be completely to costly to remove. Human lives is the imperium's greatest currency and they count in it. If it costs millions of Guardsmen to clear out a planet and this is worth taking the planet back, in the poor bastards go. If not? Viral-bombs from orbit.

This even goes all the way down to the same small-settlement scale - they get torched every now and then, but again, for reasons usually understandable. Treason, heresy, collaboration with aliens, incompetence, etc. As far as I can remember I've yet to read a 40k story involving the Imperium flattening some settlement because there might be one heretic there, or whatever. Usually they send in some troops for that, or in the case of heretics, the Sisters/Inquisition makes a visit. Or even the local planetary guard forces and their attached imperial priests, even. Nukes from orbit is usually not the first and only option considered, let alone used...
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BloodBird

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #43 on: 05 May 2012, 03:39 »

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Redeeming_the_9th_anniversary_present?utm_source=2012May9thAnniversary1&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2012May9thAnniversary1

Have a look at gift number 8, a Collectors edition of Pax Ammaria.

... the Amarr obliterate whole settlements out of hand on the mere mention they MIGHT have one of these, even if they are functionally identical to these; Pax Amarria.

Tens of thousands of Capsuleers might have a copy for free as a gift starting tomorrow  :bash:
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Three new chrons?
« Reply #44 on: 05 May 2012, 04:36 »

In a mission against the CONFIRMED heretical cult "flame of peace", other than the cult leader who you shoot down and presumably destroy, the surviving cult members are "mind wiped" and put into corrective slavery.

This, after having INVESTIGATED rumours about things.

Not being sent to obliterate things at the first hint.
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