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[Esna Pitoojee]

So, about a week on, and obviously this is going kind of one-way on both fronts.

IMO, part of the issue here is thus: This 'fix' did not actually FIX the issue that was being dealt with.

i.e., the problem was that plexes were only evenly redistibuted in lowsec at downtime. After this, each time a plex closed, there was a chance it could be respawned in a high-security system, where it became unscannable, unclosable, and thus unusable by FW until the next DT evened things out again. Combined with natural migration of plexes to uncontested systems, this means that the only really effective way to capture a system is a post-DT rush.

Comes along CCP and says "alright, we're going to give you 3 plexes, 1 of each size every 30 minutes, on top of any 'random spawns' so you can go on capturing even after that." Sounds cool, etc...

Issue is, they never fixed those 'random' spawns being most present just after DT. So, now you go in, run the outposts first, then everything else - and by the time you're finished, 3 more outposts have respawned.

While it should nominally be possible to couneract this by plexing later on in the day, the number of people who are willing to go out and plex compared to the number of people who are willing to drop several ships on that plexer is discouraging for even the hard-core plexers*, let alone any rookies.

* Sasawong not included. I think he's gone insane and finds some manic pleasure in plexing. 

[kalaratiri]

* Sasawong not included. I think he's gone insane and finds some manic pleasure in plexing. 

♥ Sasa. That man is awesome.

[tarunik]

IMO, part of the issue here is thus: This 'fix' did not actually FIX the issue that was being dealt with.

i.e., the problem was that plexes were only evenly redistibuted in lowsec at downtime. After this, each time a plex closed, there was a chance it could be respawned in a high-security system, where it became unscannable, unclosable, and thus unusable by FW until the next DT evened things out again.
...

Wait, what? The FW plex spawner sometimes puts FW plexes in HISEC? Bugreport this please!

[Graelyn]

Why does it seem every "fix" or "feature" for the RPers is a backhanded "Here, this will teach you cunts to bitch and whine" kind of gesture?

We wanted the plexes not to be all spawned at the same time. So, to 'fix' this, that process is not fucking touched, and added to it is  MORE PLEXES THAN YOU CAN FUCKING HANDLE YOU NOBS HAPPY? COMPLAIN AGAIN AND SEE WHAT YOU GET.

 

[Saikoyu]

They seriously did that?  Oh lord, or rather, 

I suggested things before from my lofty view outside of FW, but I always want more PVE and FW is supposed to be PVP-lite people keep saying, so why not this.

Cryo jam all systems unless CCP wants some big event and doesn't mind getting gate crashed by the null-secers.

Revamp the plex system to only spawn minor complexes and remove all NPCs from them.  The complexes would continously respawn every so often up to a maximum of x per system.  And the bunker becomes a minor plex as well.

Remove all PVE content, or make it something that is like the pirate epic arcs, for small fast ships only.  Maybe add in something for blockade runners as well.  I'd like that.

And to make it pay, anyone in faction warfare gets FW points each week for the number of kills they get or systems they capture.  They then get paid a certain amount of isk for each point.  Maybe add a bounty system so that the top five or ten FW pilots get a huge bounty on their heads for anyone else ont he other side to claim if they kill them. 

There we go.  With nothing but minor plexes on the field, only frigates and destroyers can be used, and those can be trained for quickly, even to tech 2 status.  Anyone who wants to roam in somthing bigger can, but they can't catch the plexers.  Tying a payout to FW points means that people who do good in PVP or Plexing will get paid, and people who don't, won't, same as the rest of eve.  Any FW'ers have something to add to the above?  Really asking, even as theory, fixing CCPs game for them is kinda fun.

And Graelyn, yeah.  I still keep hoping for an RP release, but I know that is never going to happen.

[Lyn Farel]

I am not sure that I like your idea on limiting plex sizes. Only minors ? I quite enjoyed bigger fights in plexes, especially in mediums with cruisers... Or even restricted majors with BCs. Minor plexes fights, as fun as they are, are very, very limited, considering the very few ships you can bring inside.

Other than that I think that most people already agree that plexing should be primarily rewarded with LPs, and then missions, but with a significantly less amount of LPs (just to offer an alternative with a lot less rewards if you find no plexes or can't plex).

My idea to make plexing less boring was just to add goals inside, like helping your forces to capture the outpost by protecting their transports, things like that. Blowing up stuff at least instead of running a stupid timer. And if they do not want to do that, they should at least fix these damn inegalities between faction NPCs, the Caldari ones (missiles and lol ecm) and especially the Minmatar ones (missiles + PAINTERS). I have always been disgusted to see the enemy capturing majors with nano vigils. >: (

[Esna Pitoojee]

IMO, part of the issue here is thus: This 'fix' did not actually FIX the issue that was being dealt with.

i.e., the problem was that plexes were only evenly redistibuted in lowsec at downtime. After this, each time a plex closed, there was a chance it could be respawned in a high-security system, where it became unscannable, unclosable, and thus unusable by FW until the next DT evened things out again.
...

Wait, what? The FW plex spawner sometimes puts FW plexes in HISEC? Bugreport this please!

Bug has been known for months and reported several times; in fact, IIRC this explenation originally came from a dev (the plexes cannot actually be scanned in highsec - hence the reason they can't be run, closed, and potentially returned to lowsec until the next DT respawn).

But, first there were minor "fixes" to FW tweaking the more egregious issues (plexes being buggable to count themselves down, being able to continuously decline missions until you got JUST the one you wanted, etc) and giving us other "tidbits" to try to satisfy us, then :18months:, then :Incarna:, and now :20%layoffs:.

[Drake Arson]

Dont tell me im going to be coming back to a game with nothing worth to do anymore?

[Saikoyu]

@ Lyn

Well, the reason for minors only was in line with the stated goals of FW.  PVP-lite, and newb friendly.  Larger plexes are fine, but I still think that the majority of the plexes should be minors for the above reason. 

And I forgot about LPs being the faction war points.  So forget that part of it. 

And no matter how you fix the NPCs, they will always be un-equal.  You can not make a rifter a punisher, and in my opinion, you shouldn't, which is one reason why I keep saying get rid of all of them.  I don't like nano-ships either, which is another, but I think everyone should have the chance to trya nd slip into some system and play cat and mouse running plexes.  If someone in FW wants to defend a system, they should get in there and do it themselves.  I was keeping the button since its already in the game and simplier to leave in there.  Though I think it is pretty stupid as well.  I would love to see them do something like the Sansha incursion stuff, where you have to hack the thing, or something, but without the NPCs. 

[Lyn Farel]

I agree then, but the majority being minors does not equal to"only minors".

And for NPCs, there is un-equal and un-equal. Every ship is un-equal ingame for that they are simply different from each other, but at least they are (more or less...), or supposed to be balanced. Same for weapons and everything else. I do not see any reason why plexes should not be balanced. It was extremly frustrating to see minmatar capturing plexes in lol expandable frigates, alone, when we had to use pve ships like passive drakes or arbitrators to capture our plexes ALONE.

[Robert Kauliford]

One think I was thinking about after one too many glasses of wine was this. Ban cynos in FW systems, have bunker be only jump in point and only for faction occupying system. When bunker becomes vulnerable it's available to all.

I'm well aware this would give defending faction a potentially hideous advantage but I'm hoping that the fact they can only jump to bunker at least partially mitigates this and could possibly encourage attackers to take the fight off the gates and into plexes.

Also adds an actual reason to occupy systems beyond the ping pong.

Ps also aware this would have a major impact on lo sec POS war.

[BloodBird]

One think I was thinking about after one too many glasses of wine was this. Ban cynos in FW systems, have bunker be only jump in point and only for faction occupying system. When bunker becomes vulnerable it's available to all.

I'm well aware this would give defending faction a potentially hideous advantage but I'm hoping that the fact they can only jump to bunker at least partially mitigates this and could possibly encourage attackers to take the fight off the gates and into plexes.

Also adds an actual reason to occupy systems beyond the ping pong.

Ps also aware this would have a major impact on lo sec POS war.

I would love that. Gives us an avenue where BS's are again the biggest ships able to go up against POS'es and such targets, and prevents the idiotic I-Win button that is light cyno -> jump in 100 capitals -> Kill what don't flee with no counter  -> savor un-deserved loot.

With that out of the picture, and possibly with compexes being only minors and/or mediums (allowing frigate skirmishes and  cruiser slug-fests with no BC or HAC in the biggers ones and no cruisers in the smaller ones) the big toys like HAC's BC's BS's and so on will become far more usefull in larger scale conflicts like Bunker bust-operations without fear of capital hot-drops to ruin it - you want to oppose that BS heavy fleet? Bring yor own. Old-school BS slugg-fest ensues.

In the first major battle of the Great Northern War, 30 battleships died. This was considered a major achievement in the day. Today, people hardly raize and eye-brow if 3-times that number of capitals die in 0.0. Give us back the BS fleet fights plz.

If these changes were implemented, if nothing else, we would now have frig/desy skirmishes, cruiser engagements and heavy ship fighting becoming a norm in low-sec again. And if they allow alliances to join FW with this, the conflict will intensify greatly, for the better, perhaps. If systems are not cyno-jammed tohugh, perhaps not so good...

Rambling, sorry.

[Senn Typhos]

I really wouldn't call that "un-deserved." Irritating, disappointing, yeah, but not undeserved.

[Andreus Ixiris]

Cyno-jamming FW systems would play merry hell with the jump chains of various alliances and corps and so will most likely never happen because null-seccer happiness > all other concerns in CCP's priority list.

Since we in Mixed Metaphor habitually house our carriers in an FW system (I won't name it but you can probably guess), it would be a little bit of a bitch for us as well, actually. On the gripping hand, it'd also mean we could lord our carriers over anyone who wasn't lucky enough to have them in system when the change hit (at least until someone brought in a battleship blob and owned them).

[orange]

It would also make "deep" low-sec logistics a pain for those currently operating jump freighters to and from forward bases in low-sec.