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[Matariki Rain]

Somewhere in the conversion to the EVE world, Latin 'vita' and Italian 'vita' (another point supporting the idea that Gallente blends Italian elements with French) added an "r" (which, incidentally, turns them glassy).

Soul trapped in glass?
Head in a jar? 

I like the way the Dark Forces think.

[Isobel Mitar]

I'd also make a strong distinction between points of reference and equivalence. That is, one may find it useful to note that CCP originally based the Brutor on elements of Maori culture and then examine what we see of Brutor culture in that light. But turning that into "space Polynesians" seems somewhat more problematic.

I'd be inclined to agree with this and what Kaleigh Doyle said a few posts earlier.

I feel we should try to primarily examine Eve cultures on their own, trying to find what is chracteristic for them, what makes each unique - as opposed to try to make them into copies of RL cultures based on the two sharing a few features.

That said, I also do feel comparisons to RL cultures have their place in worldbuilding and RP. They work well as sources of inspiration during brainstorming, as RL cultures are rich and deep compared to most fictional cultures. I feel examining phenomena from RL cultures an Eve culture is vaguely similar to can help us understand and create richer and more contextually fitting Eve cultural stuff for our RP. We just need to be careful to examine the pieces we would like to copy over, and see whether they need adjustment to fit or can be used at all.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

I think one has to examine the idea of originality to appreciate current ideas adapted in new ways. For instance, we've been retelling the same tales for hundreds of years now, with variations of characters and settings, and even across artistic mediums, because the manner in which a story is told is just as important as the story itself. I guess my point here is that there's no such thing as a truly original idea; it had to come from somewhere, but I think people identify something as less 'creative' when easily recognizable in their own world.

[Bureeiku]

Agree, and yes, agree.  Kaleigh has nailed it.  Also, when you have near-Earth societies, etc. just like any good sci-fi story, it is *representative* of a specific human vice or conflict, not verbatim.  So you get the creative side, but also the basis for your idea rooted in something you (mostly) understand and are familiar with.

I too am a 'cataloguer' and respect that approach.  Props to Aristotle.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Sometimes covert methods of cultural warfare (eg. food services) - Unlike American food, Gallente food isn't shit, and has more roots in exquisite, European gourmet (With the exception of Quafe food chains). Brought up in Jita 4-4, as opposed to the Federation going overbearing with their food services industry (excluding Quafe), their companies lose face and take up whatever culture they are residing in. Restaurants in the State, Republic and Empire may all sell the local cuisine, but the major ones are going to have Gallente chefs, etc. This is opposed to McDonald's fast food junk (again, excluding Quafe).

First of all, 'American food' isn't shit, but I'll not chew on you for saying that.

Secondly, there are references to 'Caldari take-out' being all greasy and deep fried, while not at all being Caldari. I'm quite sure that the Federation has many poorly imitated and ultra-cheap takes on foreign food, just like American culture has. They haven't all been mentioned, but the 'Caldari take-out' and the ubiquitous Quafe product is a good mirror of Americanized foods and Coca-Cola.

I agree with the rest of your post though. The Federation is not the U.S. in space, and I don't think it was ever intended to be. It does have a lot of examples of American culture though, along with a healthy dose of French.

[Ulphus]

First of all, 'American food' isn't shit, but I'll not chew on you for saying that.

I know all my US friends tell me I shouldn't judge America based on Las Vegas, and my experiences are all ten years old, but yeah, it was. I was served at (supposedly high class) restaurants beef that smelled faintly like sewers, and chicken with blood in the middle of it.

Matariki gave me hassles for my choice of breakfast cereal until she visited a supermarket with me and discovered that the hyper-sweet stuff I'd chosen was the least sugary stuff available.

The Mexican from "Baja Fresh" was the highlight - food with actual fresh vegetables in it! *sigh* I remember it fondly.

Going back to the topic, I actually get flashes of (parts of) the US in the Caldari stuff I've been reading than the Federation. The Hyper free-marketism, the corporations as political entities with all the power, the screwing over the little person as long as the corporation is making a profit ...

[Casiella]

"Baja Fresh" as a RL point of reference for Mexican food makes me cringe. And these days, I get a distinctly Amarrian vibe from many of my countrymen.

[Ulphus]

We now have Mexican restaurants in New Zealand, run by actual Mexicans, and the food is very very good, but Baja Fresh excelled because of the quality of its competition.

[Casiella]

Damnification through faint praise. Something else that feels very EVE-ish. (I admit to being more than a little biased when it comes to Mexican food...  )

[lallara zhuul]

Only problem with any cultural representation, be it fictional or real, is blindness to its misgivings.

If someone uses a real life culture as a reference for a fictional one and blatantly uses only the 'good' parts of it, then there can be no real constructive discourse about any issue at hand.

To me, a culture is what it is because of its 'good' and 'bad' parts.
It has evolved to what it is as a whole.
The 'bad' parts have been as necessary to its survival as the 'good' parts.
Because the culture evolves constantly, its 'good' parts can be 'bad' in a decade and vice versa.

This is one of the reasons I stay away from threads that has been initiated by this way of perceiving things, especially if the person initiating the thread is using the culture that they are living in as a real life reference and uses only its 'good' parts as a point of reference.
To me this shows that the person doing this is completely socialized by their own culture and would feel that any kind of discussion about the issues presented in the thread would make them feel defensive for they would feel that they have been doing something wrong by following a train of thought that has been taught to them by their own culture.

Then you throw in to the mix the different perceptions about New Eden, space opera or realistic for example, and you have a nice little flame war brewing.

Let's take an example.

Brutor are based on the maori people.
Maori do tattooing.
Maori are tribal.
Maori were warriors.
Maori were cannibals.

If you do not go from the basic concept of the Minmatari people being noble savages, you use all aspects of the real life culture to build your view on the Brutor.

Good and bad things about all aspects of the culture that you are basing your train of thought on.

I will make this very simple and quite aggravating as well.

Tattooing, integral part of the culture.

Those without tattoos are outside the culture. Hence anyone seen without a tattoo, to a Minmatari the gut reaction would be to treat one as a person of no social status.

The culture is tribal.

Real life references to tribal culture; gangs, American Natives, Aboriginals, african tribes.
All real life references do not have atmosphere for progressive thinking or technological development.
Hence a tribal culture would not seek to advance technologically, it would try to find a balance with its environment instead of changing it through technological advancements.

The culture holds warrior ideals.

Instead of striving to create art or science the culture would strive to create ways for its participants to prove themselves in battle, ritual or otherwise. Would lead to a very physical culture with social practices  that would enable one to go to battle with just about anyone for any reason. A lot of internal strife.

The culture has cannibalism.

Either it is linked to warfare or dealing with the death of loved ones. Consuming of the enemies or consuming parts of the loved dead so that they would stay with you always.

As you may have noticed, my examples of the real life references taken to a fictional culture could be perceived as 'bad' or as something that a person would put together if they do not really like the Minmatari culture for personal reasons. Unfortunately, I do like the concept of a tribal culture that has advanced beyond the inherent ostracism, sexism, superstition and stupidity.

An advanced tribal society would have the best surroundings for a child to grow up in, emotionally and spiritually nurturing environment where education would be custom made for each individual hence getting the most out of each and everyone on a societal level.
A society where each and every person would be equal in the eyes of the Tribe, each and everyone doing what they love for their whole lifetime which would make the Tribe stronger and self-sufficient in every way.
True freedom brought to the individuals within their society through administrative means where each individual can get their voices heard by representing a certain viewpoint when a need arises, no real politicians, just people that make their voices heard in the society when they get passionate about it.
Not to mention the wonderful rituals that bring a sense of passage to a life, from rituals that happen each day, each week, each season, each year, each lifetime and even beyond.
A family showing their love to their old by consuming them and carrying them with them in their life always.
A boy becoming an adult by passing through the trials and earning his tattoos.
A tribal leader having his face tattooed after his people have decided to give him the honor.

Hmmmm... what was I rambling about.

Oh yes, when making references to anything, I think it would be beneficial to always take in the whole picture.

Not just a part of it.

Backstage is a place for discussions and discourse, not about winning arguments.
Sharing all of the thoughts about a subject, even if you would be handing someone ammo IC, can only make for a fuller picture of New Eden and make more RP.

Anyhoos, better make some brekkies.

[Cmdr Baxter]

The problem I've always found, in trying to RP/write about Baxter's experiences in EVE, is that when I use a RL point-of-reference it robs the experience of whatever 'exotic' flavor it had. Going back to Seriphyn's comment about Mass Effect (really pumped about ME3 coming out next year!), I don't play it to experience the Systems Alliance. I play it to experience the exotic flavor of the game, including the Systems Alliance. Different architecture, armor, weapons, people/species, places, etc. If I look at that and then walk out my front door there's an obvious change between the two.

Using RL points-of-reference just lessens the experience of being immersed in something that's quite different from reality. Simplistic I know, but it works for me.