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[Merahl]

(well made point)

Mizhara's post is the most compelling explanation I've seen yet for the cost of items in the NeX store. Personally, I'd still feel things would be overpriced if they halved the costs, but I'm a poor newbie saving up for my first cruiser. I've been given to understand that they're planning to release more items with a broader price range over time.

But Miz is right: If we're the wealthiest individual powers in the galaxy, why shouldn't our trademarked, brand named jackets cost as much as a small city? Would someone like that ever want to be seen wearing something off a rack in Wal-Mart?

A better question is If we're the wealthiest individual powers in the galaxy why can't we build clothing factories and manufacture space-fabrics and found our own fashion empires in the grand tradition of the sandbox? We can build battleships, dreadnaughts and titans that can level planets. Why exactly can't we build a miniskirt?

NeX makes me feel like a cash-cow to be milked not a heroic space-entrepreneur.

Not exactly the right direction is it ?

I never said I liked the idea, or that it ought to be that way Simply that the reasoning makes sense.

I stand with others who simply want their characters to look as they do in the player's heads without having to shell out money I can barely afford to give up.

[Z.Sinraali]

While I can't agree that not voting for CSM makes one's opinion irrelevant, it certainly does make criticisms of the CSM as unrepresentative of the playerbase sound rather hollow.

At any rate, I was always more concerned by CCP's complete failure to communicate both prior to and following the Incarna release and the leak-induced shitstorm than most of the issues, in particular in the realm of expectations management. The Incursion rollout was a masterstroke. Zulu's devblog hit every high point: Here's what's gone wrong, here's what we're doing to fix it, here's what you're going to get until it's fixed, and we ran this all by the CSM to make sure the player's reps thought it was a good idea.

For Incursion, all we got was a smattering of devposts saying "Uh, things aren't going so well." No communication of their MT pricing strategy, even to the CSM. No coherent messaging. Coming so close, the $99 issue didn't help either.

Of course, this is setting aside the actual serious problems with Incarna that no degree of messaging would help with. Blowing up people's computers is not cool. Reducing functionality is not cool. The underwhelming nature of CQ was just gravy.

(You know, I'm wondering if the little things initiative may actually have hurt CCP here. Instead of having a pile of minor improvements to point at and say, "Hey look at the cool stuff you're getting with Incarna," they let that out early and left the problematic stuff for the nameplate change. Just a thought. I'm still in favor of their more-frequent release schedule overall.)

As for those extolling the virtues of luxury goods, can you at least agree that the initial release, consisting solely of luxury goods, stands in tension with CCP's desire to make EVE the go-to simulator for all things sci-fi? It doesn't really work if your avatar is locked into a single set of clothing into perpetuity unless you can afford the opportunity cost of at a minimum hundreds of millions in ISK. Considering the strong influence of cyberpunk and other less-than-high-society literature on EVE's aesthetic, having only luxury goods is deeply absurd. And yes, I realize they've stated an intent to develop lower-end items. That doesn't invalidate the point, since this discussion appears to be about whether the initial discontent with CCP was justified, and we didn't have access to that information at the time.

[Borza]

Crisis and drama over miscommunication but that's  and  's community for ya.

Glad the waves and winds in the teacup have calmed a little.

[Jade Constantine]

Blind faith is very different than living reality. I'm very happy with the current reality of the game and i simply choose to not join conspiracy theories of a possible butterfly effect parallel universe future which many are dweeling upon now. Let's just put it simple, I prefer to enjoy the present as it is than living in a miserable bitter shape about a suspicion paranoid future that ' may be ". If CCP does anything that displeases me , ill certainly issue my disastifaction as I have done in the past through petitions, private talks and reasonable means.
It's as simple as that really.

I am sure your one user account at that point will make quite an impact.

Let's see, is the handbag a Louis Vuitton , or a 1 $ take it all handbag? It matters a lot for a propper answer.

Since Eve is the most expensive and rarefied of mmorpgs then clearly the expensive handbag makes sense for the analogy.
 

There is also another matter into the place here: My handbag is in perfect shape, thank you. Now, if yours is broken and you return to the store, I advice you use the proper mediums to register your complaint instead of assalting the store and beating the seller to death hum?

For the purposes of the example your expensive hangbag's straps have broken off and the lady in the shop tells you rather than replacing the faulty model you should resolve your issue by building a new handbag factory and designing a replacement - this was the essence of your advice to me earlier.

As much as a imaginary " community " I take it?   

Clearly it is not imaginary since its disquiet convinced CCP to summon the CSM's to iceland and hold a press conference to address community issues to representatives of the gaming media. You may think it is "imaginary" - CCP clearly do not.

Absolutely not. Come with a spreedsheet with this current month data 2 weeks prior to the forum troll revolution and covering a period till 2 weeks after comparing number of dip in subscriptions versus new subscriptions and NEX profit  and if the value comes to minus I'll gladly agree with you. I'm an engineer not a poet. I like numbers not revolutions to base my arguments.

First point I would say that the "forum trolls" on the whole were the counterrevolutionaries in this instance. The "monocle elite" were generally recognized forum trolls and opposed the community concern in this instance. Second point - again clearly CCP as a company recognized a danger to their bottom-line in subs and income and have taken steps to address that. If you like "numbers" then consider the expense of flying in CSM reps and industry gaming reporters and put that against the monocle sales.

Perhaps when we have the numbers we can speak the same language. Till than , you speak of poetry and beautiful pseudo romantic revolutions which can be indeed passionate but not logical in any sense, and definately not useful for company policies.

For balance I should say that I feel your arguments are more "poetic" and whimsical than mine actually by quite a significant degree.

Simple reality is a company does not engage with crisis talks with its community unless it recognizes there is a serious problem. Point.

[Revan Neferis]

I am sure your one user account at that point will make quite an impact.

Not sure what you tried to imply by that. Every user account pays the same, does the fact that my one or two or 3 or 7 or 200 user accounts  gives ccp any rights to treat customers differently in your view? Maybe you are a bit upset because what you say in forums is largely different than what you say in privately regarding such opinions.
And the answer is no, they dont treat anyone different because they have one or 3 or two or whatever number of accounts active. I certainly dont feel any difference now that eve holds only rp interest to me to keep revan there than when i had other accounts active to other matters.
Honestely not sure where you are going by this.
CCP does not discriminate and the impact continues to be the same as any 20 dollars subscription per account is.

Since Eve is the most expensive and rarefied of mmorpgs then clearly the expensive handbag makes sense for the analogy.

Good, befitting of  NEX and MT transactions.
 

Clearly it is not imaginary since its disquiet convinced CCP to summon the CSM's to iceland and hold a press conference to address community issues to representatives of the gaming media. You may think it is "imaginary" - CCP clearly do not.

I clearly dont see 40 thousand players joining the forum protests. please redirect me to your numbers and ill state that your " eve player community ' really exists and that the forum protests were the motivators of the PR stund other than simple  marketting advantage at your costs.

. If you like "numbers" then consider the expense of flying in CSM reps and industry gaming reporters and put that against the monocle sales.

Numbers please? calculations to prove your statement?

For balance I should say that I feel your arguments are more "poetic" and whimsical than mine actually by quite a significant degree.

Im actually not the one frustrated about the game here dearest. Neither the one having that conversation last night about it.  im in fact quite happy with the results so per default you could count my supposed arguments by presenting the numbers that have been requested.

Simple reality is a company does not engage with crisis talks with its community unless it recognizes there is a serious problem. Point.

Or unless there are good PR to be made from it.
We know your pick dont we? lol

[Jade Constantine]

Earlier post so you can remember what I was referring to.

Blind faith is very different than living reality. I'm very happy with the current reality of the game and i simply choose to not join conspiracy theories of a possible butterfly effect parallel universe future which many are dweeling upon now. Let's just put it simple, I prefer to enjoy the present as it is than living in a miserable bitter shape about a suspicion paranoid future that ' may be ". If CCP does anything that displeases me , ill certainly issue my disastifaction as I have done in the past through petitions, private talks and reasonable means.
It's as simple as that really.

I am sure your one user account at that point will make quite an impact.

Not sure what you tried to imply by that. Every user account pays the same, does the fact that my one or two or 3 or 7 or 200 user accounts  gives ccp any rights to treat customers differently in your view? Maybe you are a bit upset because what you say in forums is largely different than what you say in privately regarding such opinions.  And the answer is no, they dont treat anyone different because they have one or 3 or two or whatever number of accounts active. I certainly dont feel any difference now that eve holds only rp interest to me to keep revan there than when i had other accounts active to other matters. Honestely not sure where you are going by this.
CCP does not discriminate and the impact continues to be the same as any 20 dollars subscription per account is.

Then ask for clarification rather than assuming some great conspiracy. My comment was that your sole account worth of private petitions would would be worth very little in the long run unless you were joined by a great number of other players protesting the issue that caused you problems. A lone voice is easy to ignore at the corporate level - especially since we have all acknowledged that bulk subscription figures are the only thing that matters to the bottom line.

Good, befitting of  NEX and MT transactions.

You have a right to an opinion. I disagree of course and I believe you have not presented a persuasive argument in any way shape or form as to how an expensive subscription-based game is "befitting" of NeX and MT transactions. Free to play games yes - subscription-based - no.

I clearly dont see 40 thousand players joining the forum protests. please redirect me to your numbers and ill state that your " eve player community ' really exists and that the forum protests were the motivators of the PR stund other than simple  marketting advantage at your costs.

I believe I addressed your "silent majority" argument earlier.

Im actually not the one frustrated about the game here dearest. Neither the one having that conversation last night about it.  im in fact quite happy with the results so per default you could count my supposed arguments by presenting the numbers that have been requested.

As you know from our private conversation I am quite unhappy about the NeX situation in eve yes. By all means make mileage by refering to such. I will be more closed-mouthed on the subject in the future. I am frustrated about the game yes. I think it is going in the wrong direction. Obviously you disagree.

[Revan Neferis]

As you know from our private conversation I am quite unhappy about the NeX situation in eve yes. By all means make mileage by refering to such.

You indeed made it quite secret by your public posts. I'm sure everyone is quite shocked to know that you are against NEX in eve online by this revelation.

I will be more closed-mouthed on the subject in the future.

Considering the number of your forum posts stating your disastifaction, thats quite a statement right there.

I am frustrated about the game yes. I think it is going in the wrong direction. Obviously you disagree.

That you are frustrated about the game? No i dont disagree. I know it is so.
That the game is going on the wrong direction? Yes I disagree.

[Jade Constantine]

You indeed made it quite secret by your public posts. I'm sure everyone is quite shocked to know that you are against NEX in eve online by this revelation.

Fortunate that I'm entirely consistent on my private and public statements on the subject then is it not.

I will be more closed-mouthed on the subject in the future.

Considering the number of your forum posts stating your disastifaction, thats quite a statement right there.

Perhaps I should have said ... "in private" but since the private so often becomes public I'm unsure there remains much a distinction.

[Revan Neferis]

Perhaps I should have said ... "in private" but since the private so often becomes public I'm unsure there remains much a distinction.

I can notice that you have problems finding such distinctions of late indeed. Specially  considering where it's going from here and the level of interest that will hold for public affairs at this point.

I'll resume my debate with you in private for the good running of the forum. There isnt really anything that i have left to discuss with you of public interest that wasnt done so on the previous posts.

[Jade Constantine]

I can notice that you have problems finding such distinctions of late indeed.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with quote specifically.
But in general you have made your opinions about MT in Eve abundantly clear in general.

[Myyona]

Dammit, Z.  I just wrote a long post about how the whole failure emits from CCPs poor communication and you had already written some of it.

The public uproar achieved what it should; it made CCP aware of the need of communicating their plans and reasons to their player base.  In fact, something they have had success with in the past but for some unknown reason forgot (again).

Especially reasons and greater goals have been lacking in the communiqué from CCP recently. Most blogs are coming out after the changes have been implemented and often just states what have been done but not why. I am still puzzled about the reasons why the viewing of faction standings had to go; all I got is player speculations.

To add: I never pushed the "unsubscribe" button and was not close. I am also running CQ in game though I fear it might overheat one of my machines.

My annoyance with the MeX is the lack of player constructed goods for purchase and the non-dynamic market value of the items. CCPs seem to be aiming at their own foot here having put themselves in a position where they have to set/predict the value of each item. Truthfully, the monocles are not *that* good looking and I have yet to see a character portrait looking better due to a monocle. The jackets and shirts are uninteresting too. The only thing I think look stylish is the female skirt but I cannot buy one as I have nothing it will match.

The shot will go off when CCP introduces a low AUR cost item with high appeal.

[Graanvlokkie]

Yeah, already saw that. The whole thing can be shortened down to the following:

"See? You all had a freakin' hissyfit over absolutely nothing."

Now to tally up how many of the ones who "unsubbed" actually follows through with it. My ISK is on zero or close to it.
I have to say, the insanely loud and viciously enraged mob mentality that was going on shamed the entire Eve community.

are you kidding? I'm pretty sure the reason that this all went through in the way it did at all was because of the noise the players made. CCP wanted to see our actions, and we showed them. I see this as a victory for the community, and its something the gaming world isn't going to forget quickly.

Vocal forum users are a very small minority of CCP's client base. CCP would not change their LONG TERM corporate stratergy, in a week, based on the outcry of a minority of its customers.

All the back patting and cries that things were accomplished by forum rage is missplaced.

[Revan Neferis]

Vocal forum users are a very small minority of CCP's client base. CCP would not change their LONG TERM corporate stratergy, in a week, based on the outcry of a minority of its customers.

All the back patting and cries that things were accomplished by forum rage is missplaced.

Short, Medium and Long term corporate strategies are set with the combined efforts of several departments and agreements made beforehand with purchasing, quality, financial backups, designers, engineering. I'm not trying to compare of course standards of a game company with the ones of the area of my expertise, although every business model do follow lines of same strategy and many common requirements for operating in the business ferocious world of making profit nowadays.
Your statement is very accurate Graanvlokkie.

[Jade Constantine]

Yeah, already saw that. The whole thing can be shortened down to the following:

"See? You all had a freakin' hissyfit over absolutely nothing."

Now to tally up how many of the ones who "unsubbed" actually follows through with it. My ISK is on zero or close to it.
I have to say, the insanely loud and viciously enraged mob mentality that was going on shamed the entire Eve community.

are you kidding? I'm pretty sure the reason that this all went through in the way it did at all was because of the noise the players made. CCP wanted to see our actions, and we showed them. I see this as a victory for the community, and its something the gaming world isn't going to forget quickly.

Vocal forum users are a very small minority of CCP's client base. CCP would not change their LONG TERM corporate stratergy, in a week, based on the outcry of a minority of its customers.

All the back patting and cries that things were accomplished by forum rage is missplaced.

I don't believe anybody is claiming that the forum protests alone accomplished the change in CCP's outlook over CQ's/restoration of hanger view/limit of MT items and apology for the various documents.

Unsubscriptions and the financial bottom line will be the biggest mechanism to force a change of policy (though I do believe bad press in the industry will also have an impact).

Mittani has a post on FHC where (though covered by NDA an unable to discuss specifics) he admits to being pretty surprised by the very high level of unsubscriptions CCP revealed to the council in Iceland.

"You don't spend ~$25k on last-minute flights to Reyk if unsubs aren't a problem. I personally think that 'actions not words' forms the template for effective playerbase protest - just whining does nothing, mash the unsub button and CCP /notices/.

Obviously I can't comment on the numbers, save that they blew my estimates out of the water. It wasn't an 'eve is doomed' situation but it was fugly. But in the future, should CCP begin publicly misbehaving, I think this incident proves that the most effective method of protest the players have is to unsub. You don't even need to ragepost about it, but unsubbing >>>>> all other means of protest. "

***

I think it is naive in the extreme to conclude that the recent protests had no role in bringing CCP to revise their plans and outlooks (and indeed directly contradicts CCP's own formal word on the subject given to the community by their chief producer.)

Make absolutely no mistake - this was a great victory for the community who found a voice in unified protest over extremely unpopular changes to the game.

[Revan Neferis]

Crisis and drama over miscommunication but that's  and  's community for ya.

Glad the waves and winds in the teacup have calmed a little.

Eve online forums starts to reflect that, which is good. Maybe many have left the game at last or they finally got tired of the screaming spamming and got back to business as usual.