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Author Topic: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE  (Read 12925 times)

Merdaneth

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Hi guys,

I've decided not to renew my current subscription (although it still runs for the next 9 months, paying by the year) due to the Incarna disappointment. Actually, I'm not that disappointed by Incarna, but Incarna is a cumulation of some poorer strategy decisions for EVE the last few years plust my interest in sending a strong signal they should reconsider making more 'mistakes' like this again.

IC: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1535584
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #1 on: 23 Jun 2011, 10:37 »

* Louella Dougans hugs
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Misan

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #2 on: 23 Jun 2011, 10:53 »

Done the same thing with my accounts, although they expire much much sooner.

At this point I'm waiting to see what CCP says before I decide if the decision will be permanent.
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Casiella

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #3 on: 23 Jun 2011, 10:59 »

All my accounts are now "pay by PLEX". Iurnan will renew next week via that method, but I don't know past that -- and my other accounts will be dropping within the next two weeks.
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Mizhara

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #4 on: 23 Jun 2011, 11:00 »

Not going to throw my toys out of the pram until I see for certain how things will go from here. They're in the initial phases of Incarna, which means the uproar just might change things. If they change things for the better with optional CQ, I'll be satisfied, because everything else I just don't give a shit about. They could quadruple the Aurum cost of stuff(tm) and I still wouldn't care.

Miz got better outfits in RP and has had them for years. Monocles? I'm not RPing an old WWII German officer, nor a Ye Olde British Gentleman, so I can give that a miss too. I've yet to see any kind of proof that they will be adding any kind of balance changing (or magically appearing) stuff through micro-transactions, and I won't act upon the rumors we have now.

They've done several great things with this expansion too. The new turrets are great. Making ships impossible to be unprobable is nothing short of groundbreakingly awesome. I'm not giving up just yet... I'll be wary... but I'll still wait and see.
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Victoria Stecker

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #5 on: 23 Jun 2011, 11:08 »

Yeah, I'm still in wait-and-see mode. The recent changes and direction they seem to want to go with MT make me hesitant to keep paying for multiple accounts, but the changes they've made so far aren't going to ruin the game for me. If it gets better, I'll be happy. If it gets worse, I'll find something better to do with my time and money.

Thus far, however, while many of the changes are poor decisions IMO, they haven't yet ruined the game for me. If they have for other people, I understand completely.

Sending a strong message, though, doesn't seem like a bad idea... I just don't know if I have the cajones to do it by unsubbing. I hope that pages and pages or rage threads might have gotten their attention? Maybe?

 :psyccp:
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Aria Jenneth

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #6 on: 23 Jun 2011, 11:21 »

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to respond constructively to this sort of thing.

Go if you're going, and don't expect me to follow.
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Merdaneth

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #7 on: 23 Jun 2011, 11:26 »

Not going to throw my toys out of the pram until I see for certain how things will go from here. They're in the initial phases of Incarna, which means the uproar just might change things.

I'm not that disappointed by Incarna itself, however there has been a glut of sub-standard expansions. Farmville in space was and still is poor gameplay, the nullsec warfare changes were a missed opportunity to change some boring basics, incursions was ok-ish, EVEgate as social media platform is fail, asking people that are providing free service to pay for a license is fail, and the failure to iterate on a lot of things or fullfill promises made within reasonable time (treaties etc.) reflects poorly on CCP.

There is currently momentum, momentum to give CCP a real message. CCP say they strive for excellence, but Incarna is is not excellence, and most expansion haven't been excellence. Incarna is merely the promise of future excellence. And CCP is starting to gain a reputation for promises they can't or don't want to keep.

In short, CCP is starting to act like a big company (which they are) with a lot of distance between them and their customers. They need to find a way to close that gap, and preferably sooner than later.

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Merdaneth

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #8 on: 23 Jun 2011, 11:30 »

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to respond constructively to this sort of thing.

Go if you're going, and don't expect me to follow.

Simply ask yourself why people do 'this sort of thing'. Then try to respond that with reasoned arguments.

Why do you find it difficult to respond constructively. Is there something about 'this sort of thing' that sets you off?
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #9 on: 23 Jun 2011, 12:18 »

I will in all likelihood let my sub run out as well.

It's not like I have been using EVE for more than chatting for the past six months anyways.
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Graanvlokkie

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #10 on: 23 Jun 2011, 12:28 »

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to respond constructively to this sort of thing.

Go if you're going, and don't expect me to follow.

Simply ask yourself why people do 'this sort of thing'. Then try to respond that with reasoned arguments.

Why do you find it difficult to respond constructively. Is there something about 'this sort of thing' that sets you off?

Every expansion brings out the Eve is dying argument. Every expansion spawns a threadnaught. It all really amounts to nothing.

I remember reading the 80 page Dominion threadnaught where the new SOV system would be the destruction of the game, and it wasn't. CCP buckled under the mothership complaints though and gave us the new super carrier, which is more game breaking than anything at the moment in my opinion. The lesson, people who complain on forums don't always know best.

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Aria Jenneth

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #11 on: 23 Jun 2011, 12:33 »

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to respond constructively to this sort of thing.

Go if you're going, and don't expect me to follow.

Simply ask yourself why people do 'this sort of thing'. Then try to respond that with reasoned arguments.

Why do you find it difficult to respond constructively. Is there something about 'this sort of thing' that sets you off?

Being understanding is generally one of my strong suites, Merdaneth. But there are limits.

What you are attempting to do is "vote with your pocketbook"-- use your leverage as a consumer to convince CCP to reverse certain policies. Very well; that's your prerogative, as is attempting to convince others to do the same. And I do understand your frustration with faction warfare, in particular.

That's all well and good.

What gives me a roaring headache and makes me want to delete Backstage from my list of bookmarks, refuse to accept all OOC contacts, and stick forevermore to just playing my character without regard for anybody else's out of character opinion on any subject whatsoever is the unending bitching.

You can't please everybody. CCP can't please everybody. You, obviously, are not pleased, and you have your reasons for that.

And yet you clearly still love the game.

Yours may be well-reasoned arguments; they may not. CCP may actually be suffering from fits of horrid greed and from a tendency to ignore serious problems. Corporations, after all, are by nature amoral entities that exist for no purpose but to make money. On the other hand, CCP may just be having a devil of a time coming up with good solutions for some of those problems.

Talk to Eve players, and we tend to act like CCP's problems are in some way unique to CCP, as though they're unusually incompetent or unusually dishonest, but talking to players from other games, it seems that EVERY GODDAMN ONE has this kind of moaning going on pretty much constantly. In fact, in my experience it happens in every group of people with any hierarchy to speak of in numbers greater than twenty or so.

And what's more, the complaining occurs, and is virtually impossible to suppress, whether the complaints are well-founded or not.

You can bet that CCP is well aware that if it pisses enough of us off, the results will be bad for it. MMO's apparently follow a predictable pattern: if the player count actually stops rising, the MMO is doomed: the result is nigh-on-irreversible decline. There's not a goddamn thing you can tell them by cancelling your subscription that they don't already know from all the forum complaints. And yet you, as I say, obviously still love the game.

So the person who is really going to be losing out here is you.

CCP will be down a subscription, but your specific subscription is an acceptable loss if they can keep drawing in others-- and not being able to get out of your ship is a major gap in immersion that keeps a lot of people, such as my wife, from joining. When IC bars can exist in-engine, and not just in-chat, she'll be resubbing.

All this trouble CCP has been going to-- PI, DUST, Incarna, all the little bits and pieces we've got that haven't quite come together-- are working towards something, a much larger universe. If CCP were content to just have a happy little spaceship game and keep it all working smoothly, Eve would have a normal MMO life cycle: start, grow, diminish, die.

That's not what CCP has in mind. They're more ambitious, shooting for a comprehensive sci fi universe where various little unimpressive stubs grow and interconnect to produce a truly vast, interlocking network of players playing various roles in various positions of, indeed, various games. When the execs talk about keeping Eve going indefinitely, they're being serious: they don't want to sell you a ship, they want to sell you a universe.

And that, I find much more admirable than the usual run-of-the-mill "build the game, take their money, move on to the next thing" corporate attitude.

Because they are thus ambitious, a few things are going to end up going by the wayside because CCP's focus is presently on getting itself fully ready for the steps it means to take in the next several years. That means getting PI functional to prepare for DUST, and it means getting captain's quarters functional to prepare for the "real" Incarna.

Neither is in a finished state. Nor is FW, but CCP's got larger problems, notably its struggles to engineer a system that will actually permit small to mid-sized entities to flourish in nullsec and will discourage overly massive fleet fights full of proliferating supercapitals. That's a pretty freaking intractable problem, and you'll have to excuse me if I don't blame CCP in the slightest for giving fixing that particular horror-show priority over FW. FW, while nifty in concept and important to some of us, doesn't crash nodes when it gets out of hand.

Eve is unique. It's uniquely vast, uniquely unified, uniquely cutthroat, and uniquely ambitious. It is not uniquely polished; that's WoW's schtick. You will not find anything like it out there, and you will not be able to get CCP to slow down its ambitions for the sake of a feature that turns out to have been taken out of the oven a little early.

And if it dies because a bunch of people who really love the game want to make a goddamn superfluous point by closing their accounts while screaming "Fix FW!" or, more reasonably, "Fix 0.0!" that will be a damn shame.

CCP will be partially to blame for that if it happens, yes. For ambition to be worthwhile,  one must be capable of achieving it.

If you were genuinely tired of the game, I'd understand much better. But now, if you don't get what you want and nevertheless renew your account, you'll appear to have been just an over-dramatic whiner. If, on the other hand, you actually quit, you'll have abandoned an entirely unique game (and universe) you still cared about and enjoyed greatly, and you will have nothing to show for it.

You see, CCP may listen to us about macrotransactions. It may listen about making CQ optional, unless there's some technical issue there. It will not, however, listen to you about its priorities; it's put too much into developing its "future vision" to stop now, or even to slow down.

If you insist on cancelling your account because of this, well, go ahead. Maybe enough of you will decide to "make a point" that you can put the game you love to death. That's probably more likely than a reversal of course.

And if CCP really is as incompetent as the "bitter vets" keep claiming, maybe that would be a mercy. At any rate, you'll do a fine job of doing in your own fun if you carry it through.

Personally, I'd rather see what they come up with to keep me paying my hard-earned iskies, until I genuinely conclude that the game no longer deserves them.
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Invelious

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #12 on: 23 Jun 2011, 12:42 »

The irony Aria is you posted against bitching while in turn bitching yourself. Simple solution would be to ignore. The title of the thread alone gave away what the topic of discussion is. You could have avoided it.

On a side note, Aria, I do agree with your statements regarding CCP's direction. I am however agaisnt the buying of any items and this Aurum currency system. 
« Last Edit: 23 Jun 2011, 12:45 by Invelious »
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Casiella

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #13 on: 23 Jun 2011, 12:46 »

I am completely and totally on board with the concept of WiS. Sci fi simulator? Great, that's why I'm here. Technical and design details? I can work through those.

Eviscerating core gameplay under the guise of convenience? No. I want to stay, but I want EVE to still be EVE for me to do that.
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Aria Jenneth

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Re: Sending a message about Incarna and the future of EVE
« Reply #14 on: 23 Jun 2011, 12:47 »

The irony Aria is you posted against bitching while in turn bitching yourself.

Ironic, maybe. No more so than a generally tolerant person being intolerant of intolerance, however.

... Which I do occasionally tend to be.
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