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[orange]

How they are going to compete for players with titles like BF3 and MW3 coming out?

What is the differentiator? Pencil skirts?

The selling point versus BF3, MW3, Halo:Reach, any-FPS should be there are battles where the outcome has an impact beyond individual K:D ratios, team/clan/guild/corp pride, and increasing the wallet size.  Even if it is just a dot changing colors.

Eve's warzone maps and 0.0 should be something anyone browsing the Eve-Online page immediately can look at along with snap shots of big changes.

I predict massive failure with DUST.

I agree.  It is too early in the development of the total New Eden system to introduce the game.  The community of Eve players, especially 0.0 alliances, should already be asking for the system-level mechanics that Dust 514 is supposed to fill.  We shouldn't be left scratching our heads as to how these elite ground troops and their support equipment fit into the system we play.

AMARR - Imperial Armaments, Carthum Conglomerate, Viziam
CALDARI - Lai Dai, Wiyrkomi, Kaalakiota
GALLENTE - CreoDron, Duvolle Labs, Allotek Industries (Roden subsidiary)
MINMATAR - Boundless Creations, Core Complexion, Freedom Extension

TonyG said that "while the Gallente can make a laser weapon, for the best, you'd want to go to Viziam"

I am guessing that the above are weapons manufacturers and not necessarily "starter" organizations for DUST-soldiers.  I would like to see the above corporations being designers (like T2*) and manufacturing being BPOs for capsuleers to build off and sell on the market.

*2/3 of all the above are T2 designers.

I doubt we will get the opportunity. The opportunity to manufacture non-space items, be it clothes for WiS or weapons and armor for DUST, provides and an immediate linking of the games.  And to "jump-start" weapons/armor manufacturing on our end; NPC buy orders from corporations that will host the DUST starter corps (the militia corps?) for capsuleers to fill.

There is at least a lack of transparent top down system design to fill in the details of the above, in my opinion.

[Seriphyn]

Yeah, the corps I listed are manufacturers, meant to point that out.

Also, yeah. DUST didn't come about with players saying "hey, wouldnt it be cool if we could...", but CCP wanting to advance their standings.

[Crucifire]

How they are going to compete for players with titles like BF3 and MW3 coming out?

What is the differentiator? Pencil skirts?

The selling point versus BF3, MW3, Halo:Reach, any-FPS should be there are battles where the outcome has an impact beyond individual K:D ratios, team/clan/guild/corp pride, and increasing the wallet size.  Even if it is just a dot changing colors.

I think a bigger question would be whether or not your average Halo/COD player actually cares about any of those things. I live with some and they don't care much beyond shooting Nazis in the face and jumping in and out of matches at their leisure to find a team that's winning. This is just my own test group, mind you, but I have a feeling it's not far off the mark of the majority of FPS gamers, at least in North America.

I really don't want to be cynical but I foresee DUST 514 struggling in a saturated market.

[Seriphyn]

A demographic of FPS players...

Come home, fire up the console, shoot some noobs, turn off console, go bed.

Not worry or get anxious over how ones clan is advancing in the persistent war in a region.

[Crucifire]

That really sounds about right.

[orange]

Then DUST was dead at conception, forget about at birth/arrival.

[Hurs Sokira]

The selling point versus BF3, MW3, Halo:Reach, any-FPS should be there are battles where the outcome has an impact beyond individual K:D ratios, team/clan/guild/corp pride, and increasing the wallet size.  Even if it is just a dot changing colors.

Let's assume, for a second, that an average FPS player actually would care about dot changing colors. He gets together a clan and says: "Hey guys, let's capture this system for Empire!"

They grind a couple of evenings and, after several close firefights, change the color of that dot. Huzzah!! Amarr Victor, etc.

The next morning, they wake up to find out that PL was in the neighborhood and cynoed 50 supercarriers into the system for the lulz, switching the dot right back in 30 min.

The whole concept of DUST is completely idiotic. Put yourself in place of a typical representative of average FPS console demographics. Why the fuck I, console player, should fight to support these guys playing this lame internet spaceship game, on PC, of all things? A game in which one can convert RL cash to buy a big ship that can then annihilate a planet in one shot from orbit? They even had a video showing how it would work!

[Kyoko Sakoda]

The next morning, they wake up to find out that PL was in the neighborhood and cynoed 50 supercarriers into the system for the lulz, switching the dot right back in 30 min.

The whole concept of DUST is completely idiotic. Put yourself in place of a typical representative of average FPS console demographics. Why the fuck I, console player, should fight to support these guys playing this lame internet spaceship game, on PC, of all things? A game in which one can convert RL cash to buy a big ship that can then annihilate a planet in one shot from orbit? They even had a video showing how it would work!

Two things:

#1: LOL BITTERVETS

#2: Objective-based games do a lot better than pewpew games for a reason. Console gamers aren't all 13 year-olds with an excess of adolescence-driven testosterone. Many of my friends have consoles, and my brother has one. In fact, between PS3 and Xbox there were 110 million consoles sold. I for one do not understand playing an FPS with anything but a mouse, but that's beside the point. You're making assumptions about game mechanics that don't exist yet (supercaps taking a system faster than ground units) and about the demographics themselves. You're also assuming that "switching the dot" would come without any reward for the console players, which would be part of any Game Design 101 course.

As for the cynicism with relative market success, there is a high sales bar to meet and I think CCP knows that very well considering how much they've invested in all their studios.

[Graelyn]

As a card-carrying bittervet, I am amazed at the sheer "MY HIP!" going on in here.

EVE has an audience, because consolers are getting older, and many of them are no longer the rot-mouthed 13-yr-old Halo twat they used to be.

[Hurs Sokira]

As for the cynicism with relative market success, there is a high sales bar to meet and I think CCP knows that very well considering how much they've invested in all their studios.

How much CCP has invested? Last time I checked, EVE Shanghai (the DUST development team), was half-a-dozen Chinese 20somethings skinning a 5-year old Unreal Engine 3 (same engine used to power such groundbreaking titles as Zumba Fitness).

Does anyone seriously think that such obscure developer as CCP can find (and retain, in China of all places) talent that is good enough to develop something that can be even remotely comparable to HALO/Battlefield/CoD? This is like a retarded kid on a tricycle entering Tour de France.   

DUST is nothing but the PR exercise to show investors that CCP can develop something, anything than permanently broken internet spaceship game. Same with Captain's Quarters, a technology/payment model demo for IP that is completely unrelated to EVE.

With departure of original EVE devs, CCP completely lost capability to deliver compelling content, so they thrashing about, grasping here and there, trying to latch onto the "next big thing" before enough EVE subscribers catches on what's going on and leave in disgust. Worst case scenario, there is always WhiteWolf IP to milk until current management can cash in and retire.   

[Casiella]

The preceding post brought to you by:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

( )

[Hurs Sokira]

The preceding post brought to you by:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

( )

If I am Glenn Beck, then CCP is what, Barack Obama?

Nah, does not work well. Who would that be? Someone from a remote, cold place, known for small, but very devoted fan base, and prone to blunders (boot.ini, anyone?) Somebody that starts something promising, but quits halfway trough....

[Esna Pitoojee]

Honestly, conceptual questions aside, making this thing PS3-exclusive was one of the dumbest things CCP could have done. In the aftermath of the latest intrusion into PSN, hopefully CCP will reconsider...

[Gottii]

As for the cynicism with relative market success, there is a high sales bar to meet and I think CCP knows that very well considering how much they've invested in all their studios.

How much CCP has invested? Last time I checked, EVE Shanghai (the DUST development team), was half-a-dozen Chinese 20somethings skinning a 5-year old Unreal Engine 3 (same engine used to power such groundbreaking titles as Zumba Fitness).

Does anyone seriously think that such obscure developer as CCP can find (and retain, in China of all places) talent that is good enough to develop something that can be even remotely comparable to HALO/Battlefield/CoD? This is like a retarded kid on a tricycle entering Tour de France.   

DUST is nothing but the PR exercise to show investors that CCP can develop something, anything than permanently broken internet spaceship game. Same with Captain's Quarters, a technology/payment model demo for IP that is completely unrelated to EVE.

With departure of original EVE devs, CCP completely lost capability to deliver compelling content, so they thrashing about, grasping here and there, trying to latch onto the "next big thing" before enough EVE subscribers catches on what's going on and leave in disgust. Worst case scenario, there is always WhiteWolf IP to milk until current management can cash in and retire.

If you really feel this way, why look for and spend time on a forum dedicated to this game you supposedly feel is worthless, writing posts about this game and game company you think is incompetent and meaningless?   Maybe you should, I dont know, go find another game forum to post on, for a game that lives up to your expectations.

I mean, if you really and truly feel this way, way to waste precious moments of your life dude...

[Aria Jenneth]

I ...

* Own a PS3. And am happy with it. THBBBBBT!

* Love a good FPS-- particularly if it's got a good stealth component.

* Don't agree with the "bittervets" on most game-related subjects, and certainly not on this one.

Let me put it to you straight: if CCP were as incompetent as you people let on, Eve would not be "dying" at some time in the distant, misty future. It would not be struggling with hosts of bugs. It would be dead. Now. In the present. More likely still, it would have been vaporware, an aborted mass of unworkable code that never saw the light of day.

Far as I can tell, today's CCP = good (though not always excellent) people working with bad code. If they weren't, you people wouldn't have a good game to whine about, and, if you did, it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

However, I'm happy enough to see these folks crying apocalypse: at this rate of lowering expectations, if CCP delivers a flawed but enjoyable product we'll be able to count it as a massive win.

* Am looking forward to hearing CCP's plans, one way or another. The company's not short on vision. What remains to be seen (as always) is whether they can pull it off.

And ...

* Am willing to withhold judgment on their efforts until I actually see something more than a preview. Back in the day, Devil May Cry 2 looked pretty damn gorgeous until you actually PLAYED the goddamn disappointing piece of ... you get the idea. Correspondingly, the Chronicles of Riddick games seemed to have a great deal running against them (not least being the curse of the movie license), but turned out rather well.

I'll be taking the "wait and see" approach, friends.