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[Louella Dougans]

I disagree.

Locator agents are expensive and restricted for reasons.
When you ask an agent to locate someone, they have to request information from:
Their own corps stations
Other corps stations
Stargate operators

to get movement logs and other records, to locate the last known position of a capsuleer.

That's why it's expensive, it is using a lot of computing resources, and substantial sums of money are transferred in order to pay for it all. that's why the faster locators are more expensive.


"hacking" it, I don't see as possible, because of all the payments and lookups that need to be done.

If you say you "hacked" it, you are god moding being able to falsify authorisations for access to a whole lot of megacorp station networks. Not a "database", but many.

besides all that, asking other people to expend money for you, even if you reimburse them, is problematic, as wallet transactions are IC. Unless it's your own character. In which case, vOv.

[Mithfindel]

I assume the problem with any official EVE RPG is that there's not enough flesh to the bones for the factions - at least as CCP is aware of and what would be required for a good product. I think I've seen a few player-made settings for other systems, though.

[Ken]

"hacking" it, I don't see as possible, because of all the payments and lookups that need to be done

If Nikita were to develop a more detailed explanation of her character's "hacking" abilities in a way that plausibly overcame the obstacles you've explained, would you still reject it?

[Silas Vitalia]

The locator 'agent' you pay is bribing or hacking their way to the same information, I think it an extremely small IC leap to assume you as a capsuleer could do the same, and just cutting out a single middleman (of many that are surely involved).

[Merdaneth]

I can't even put on new clothes in-game, much less have a drink at a bar. There is no representation in game of many of even the basest functions.

Nobody that is taking a drink is actually consuming a portion of a unit of spirits. Nobody ever consumes food etc.

It is all about perception really. Get people to believe that you did.

I can easily make up a story about some space battle I've had and post it on the IGS. Purely in-game but completely made up. I could tell you I've colonized some planets I've never colonized in-game. I could claim I've been behind certain plots that led to the fall of alliances.

Make it believable enough, and people will believe. It doesn't need to be in-game, it doesn't even need to be truthful.

[Louella Dougans]

"hacking" it, I don't see as possible, because of all the payments and lookups that need to be done

If Nikita were to develop a more detailed explanation of her character's "hacking" abilities in a way that plausibly overcame the obstacles you've explained, would you still reject it?

I don't know. They appear to be saying they ask other characters/players to do that for them, which I don't feel fits.

Besides which, there are other issues.

E.g. I have +7 with the Amarr Empire, a consequence of which is that every Amarrian corporations locator agents are open to me. Hurr, standings, but I also have sufficient with other npc corporations directly, e.g. Sarum Family, whose top locator agent, Avel Sounillier I have worked for quite a lot.

Now, to me, this suggests that I have some level of trust and influence, that is sufficient that people are willing to authorise actions on my behalf (i.e. locator agents).

However, this "hacking the locator database", says that this level of IC trust and influence is worth nothing, because you could just use an alt and "hack" it.

Using an alt to obtain the location, and saying you "hacked the information", in my opinion, is rude to anyone who does have the ability to use the locator agents directly.

It says "Hey, your trust and influence is worth nothing, hahaha", imo.

Same for a whole lot of other usage of alts.

[Ember Vykos]

I think its time for CCP to put out a table top RPG of this game. Imagine using the character sheets and mechanics of the table top version to influence our "face to face" outcomes in game. We set up a random dice generator to use and can be view by multiple parties as proof of the roll. Wishful thinking I suppose.

They started and then cancelled that exact projection, Invelious.

They started and then cancelled that exact projection, Invelious.

   someone call whitewolf. I love the D10 dot system.

So sad. I'd buy it knowing full well I wouldnt have anyone to play it with, but the use it would be to EVE RP is nice to think about.

One thing this makes me think of though is that if CCP either doesnt care enough or doesnt think it will make enough money to be viable why dont we just make our own? It shouldnt be that hard to agree on a setup to use for character sheets and the dice roll generator is a great idea for RP in general regardless of having a character sheet or not.

[Casiella]

Just asked CCP Fallout about the RPG. I'll see if she can't tell us something about it. 

[Ken]

It says "Hey, your trust and influence is worth nothing, hahaha", imo.

There is usually more than one way to get what you want in real life, and in this case we're talking about something as straightforward as finding out where another person is at the moment.  Doesn't seem like the sort of data that would be so secretive that only a few people privileged by trust and influence could acquire it.  In fact, it's not.  Any locator agent anywhere (depending on their level) can provide you with that information regardless of individual faction or corp affiliation.  If you can locate someone through Sarum Family and I can do so through Federation Navy, am I saying that your influence with Amarr is somehow less meaningful by doing so?  I don't think so and I don't think RPing that I acquired the information by other means does so either. 

There is always room for Mary Sue to crop up in things like this, but it comes down to plausibility and style.  Is it plausible one could find location data by some contrived scheme that is best summed up as "hacking"?  Sure, I suppose it is.  Just like its possible for both "60 Minutes" and Ali-G to get an interview with Donald Trump.  Obviously, such "novel" routes to one's objective are increasingly difficult to reuse and can easily stray into the territory of the absurd, but for a one off twist I'm all for Nikita's improv take on an otherwise bland mechanic. 

I see this more as a case of "Well, I have my sources too..." rather than "lol, i hacked teh concord"

[Andreus Ixiris]

Not sure if this is entirely relevant, but here goes anyway.

Though I never buy GTCs, I do sometimes get money for entirely OOC reasons (I once wrote something in the EVE Livejournal community that was apparently so funny it was worth 100m ISK to one of the readers). If that happens, I have a way of explaining it IC, which is as follows:

Andreus' father is the current patriarch of the Ixiris family, which all told owns roughly 18% of Calluya, Andreus' city of birth, and a raft of other business interests across Intaki. Andreus despises his parents because he feels that they were cold, distant and cared only about having a son that would be the next family patriarch. They showed him little love or attention when he was growing up, and bustled him off to a fast-track program in the Centre for Advanced Studies when he was only twelve years old. He hasn't been to Calluya for more than six hours at once since - to everyone else, he pretends like it's the absolute best city in the universe, but secretely he despises it because it reminds him of his parents. When he decided he wanted to be a capsuleer, his family cut off his scholarship, wrote him out of the will and disowned him - he got a sponsorship from the Federation to continue his education instead.

If you've ever wondered why Andreus is unwilling to talk about his past or his family, this is why.

Ever since, he's been sinking a little bit of ISK here and there (remember, even a few thousand ISK goes a very long way on planets) in his own little private war against his own family. He's slowly buying up controlling interests in various planetary corporations throughout Calluya, and with the new treaty allowing capsuleers to establish their own planetary facilities, what he can't buy up, he's been directly outperforming with his own subsidiaries. His long-term goal is to put his father out of business and force the old man to acknowledge the life he's made for himself.

Any time Andreus gets money for OOC reasons, I just put it down to "some of his investments returned significant profits" or "he's been plundering one of his new acquisitions".

[Graanvlokkie]

The problem with locator agents is that this is not a situation where it is "power outside mechanics" as you put it Nikita. This is a system and that is detailed within the confines and mechanics of the game.

Its all well and good when storytelling using your own actors to describe and do things outside the mechanics. I think Merdaneth's posts address more this issue. There are no mechanics to eat, drink and/or conquer planets, so do as you wish within your own stories, or what is accepted by the people you are involving in your stories.

A problem arises when you start involving other character, intentionally or unintentionally, in your storytelling. This shifts it into RP.

A problem with RP is that it is not consensual and needs rules to guide the improv actors (players) towards an outcome that has not been determined (predetermined outcomes can often sit more on the side of combined storytelling rather than RP).

If your alt does not have access to locator agents, if is in your own story, describe how she hacks everything you want. If your alt is interacting with my character, you cant. Now the mechanics for locating my character exist in game. Your alt is essentially using mechanics that are unavailable to it, and then spinning a story around it to make the transfer of information seem legitimate. Your alt (X) would not have access to that info at all per the game mechanics, you use another character (Y)  to get the info and then spin a story as to how the info went from X to Y.

Its no different from me telling "character Y" in character where I am, and then you saying "HA! My "character X" just hacked that info and knows where you are!"  

EDIT TO ADD:

I think that's a fantastic/creative way to RP the 'agent locator' game mechanic.  Makes sense and I don't think harms anyone.

I seem to agree with the above. It is a nice way to possibly explain your use of the mechanics, and I would accept it if you explain that when you say "I hacked the database" you simply mean using the locator agent mechanics, or any other mechanics.

But I would be pissed off if you say that it means you located my character though means unavailable to the character and then used that info IC.


 

[Lyn Farel]

This whole thread reminds me of Bloodbird and her amarrian colony in republic space. As long as it remains coherent, logical, structured, and with an OOC "gentlemen-agreement" behind, I do not se why I should screw with that.

First rule in roleplay : scenario before anything else, or no need to roleplay anymore, just play the game lile the average player.

[Louella Dougans]

Well, I still don't like it.

I believe it diminishes the IC value of characters doing those actions themselves. And diminishing the value of characters doing anything. Moneymaking alts, locator alts, scout alts, R&D alts, industry alts. Alts, everywhere.

It reduces the amount of reasons to interact with other people.

It just feels wrong. Like using an OOC scout. And then saying there's no IC connection. Even though the information gathered OOC is acted upon IC.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Power outside mechanics is heavily dependent on how often and how egregiously it is used.

Example, dependent on rate of usage: I once played Esna as calling on some contacts from an area he used to live in to pull some strings to get his name entered as part of something involving someone else's storyline.

Was it power outside of the storyline? Yes. Were any big cries raised about it? No. Why? Because it was used exactly once, on a small aspect of another storyline, and then largely laid to rest. If I'd started yanking it up repeatedly to arrange anything for Esna, then yeah - I'd fully expect someone to call me on i.

[Saede Riordan]

My attitude is that if its used infrequently and tastefully, its not a big deal, I've used it in the example I mentioned entirely for flavour. Because I thought it would be amusing, and totally fitting the character to have her know where someone was when she tried to contact them, just to let them know she was interested.