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Author Topic: Where do I fit in?  (Read 8617 times)

Casiella

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #30 on: 05 May 2011, 14:02 »

I'd promised myself I wouldn't come back to post in this thread, since I'd said everything I thought I could say. I'm breaking my promise to myself, but making it again starting as soon as I finish this post. ;) (I will, as always, keep reading.)

Here's the thing. Something gets reported because somebody thinks it's offensive. Lots of discussion takes place around it, and as a result the eventual understanding is "but I didn't mean it to sound the way it sounded" (cf. Ciarente). Not everyone hears the same words in the same way, of course, so for some people it doesn't sound offensive, and for others it does.

Without making general statements about society at large, I will simply say that here on Backstage we bend over backwards to promote civil, respectful discourse. If a post seems uncivil or discourteous, we will moderate it, because that determination of discourtesy lies with the audience rather than the speaker. As the FAQ notes, this is subjective and may occasionally appear unfair, our best efforts to the contrary. That is the nature of the beast. Apparently, in this case, at least some of the moderation team and other members as well interpreted your post in that way.

However, I want to respond in particular to Laerise:

It is not dismissive and I would rather not be called someone who is lacking in respect for anyone. Rather it is you who is dismissive of me and my style of writing.

Quote
I hope that clears things up for you and will assist you ensuring future posts are within the guidelines and standards of the boards.

No, actually it does not clear up anything - and I would much preferr if you would not aim veiled threats at me, thank you very much.

If you would rather not be told you appear to lack respect, then you should likely adjust your "style of writing" so that it does not appear to lack respect. I understand that this may result in part from a language issue, but that does not change the fact that stylistic variations matter. Presentation and content, in other words.

And Cia made no veiled threats. I will be more explicit: if you (or anyone else, of course) post in a way that appears disrespectful, rude, or dismissive, Ciarente or any other member of the Backstage staff, including me, will "assist you" in making sure that those posts conform to the rules, either by moderating them or taking whatever action the staff deems necessary. I hope you don't think that's a veiled threat, but it certainly is an affirmation of our moderation stance and that it includes everyone.

If you don't want the moderators to remind you of that stance, then don't post in a way that will bring that level of attention.
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Kaleigh Doyle

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #31 on: 05 May 2011, 15:07 »

I think it's pretty simple here. Trying to tell other players/organizations what they are or aren't, regardless of fact/truth/opinion, is pretty much a violation of the rules.

That wasn't the case though, no one was telling KOTMC their RP was wrong or that they weren't who they said they were, they were expressing their opinion on them to another group. I see know issue with that.

Sure it is, and she even admits it...

You still fail to explain why you think that that makes me tell them they're doing anything wrong.

The simple fact that Kotmc is harbouring open heretics in their ranks does differentiate them from what is traditionally known as the amarr bloc - me telling Kotmc they might well not be a part of the so called amarr bloc anymore does not mean they are doing anything wrong, just that they do things differently than the amarr bloc.

She's not telling them they're doing it wrong, but she's certainly telling them what they are. Opinion/fact/truth/reality, whatever you want to call it, is irrelevant in the face of this.

It's possible to make an opinion without telling people what they are or aren't, but some people take offense to the notion. It's called curbing negative posting behavior that leads to flame-wars and other opinion battles that rarely end well, and can easily be rectified by presenting a viewpoint in a different manner.
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Laerise [PIE]

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #32 on: 05 May 2011, 15:31 »

Quote from: 'Scagga'
The Amarr bloc is a term that is very distinguishable from being simply 'Amarr RP'.  As far as I remember its origins lie in a characterisation that was created by Jade Constantine for the closeknit Amarrian organisations of the time that held a line and had a generally orthodox way of interpreting Amarr RP.  It was so catchy that those who had been labelled as the 'Amarr bloc' adopted the term. 

Traditionally the Amarr bloc know who they are, examples of units to include would be PIE, 1PG, CVA (though at times more of an associate member in my humble view), and at times the Ammatar Free Corps I suppose and even at some point the Aegis militia folk.

I think it's pretty simple here. Trying to tell other players/organizations what they are or aren't, regardless of fact/truth/opinion, is pretty much a violation of the rules.

That wasn't the case though, no one was telling KOTMC their RP was wrong or that they weren't who they said they were, they were expressing their opinion on them to another group. I see know issue with that.

Sure it is, and she even admits it...

You still fail to explain why you think that that makes me tell them they're doing anything wrong.

The simple fact that Kotmc is harbouring open heretics in their ranks does differentiate them from what is traditionally known as the amarr bloc - me telling Kotmc they might well not be a part of the so called amarr bloc anymore does not mean they are doing anything wrong, just that they do things differently than the amarr bloc.

She's not telling them they're doing it wrong, but she's certainly telling them what they are. Opinion/fact/truth/reality, whatever you want to call it, is irrelevant in the face of this.

It's possible to make an opinion without telling people what they are or aren't, but some people take offense to the notion. It's called curbing negative posting behavior that leads to flame-wars and other opinion battles that rarely end well, and can easily be rectified by presenting a viewpoint in a different manner.

So now we all have to add "I think" to everything we post - be it as a cop-out to do some veiled flaming or to make sure a constructive post is not moderated to death? Sounds good to me.  :)
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Kaleigh Doyle

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #33 on: 05 May 2011, 15:48 »

Go for it.  :lol:
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Casiella

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #34 on: 05 May 2011, 15:53 »

So now we all have to add "I think" to everything we post - be it as a cop-out to do some veiled flaming or to make sure a constructive post is not moderated to death? Sounds good to me.  :)

Oddly, if you check the FAQ, you'll find at the end a "Short Guide to Polite Posting" that says basically this.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #35 on: 06 May 2011, 05:11 »

I agree with the moderation.

What is disrepectful is not to report that kind of things, but to let people OOCly criticize IC stuff. This is just unsane. Almost like confusing OOC with IC.

Inventing criticism where there is none does not make for a compelling argument Lyn.

For comparison, if a mouse calls itself cat, does this mean you shan't call it mouse, but cat?

Anyway, your argument is out of place and imo, means nothing much related to the matter. You can't compare objectives facts like mouses and cats with subjectives facts like what is an IC entity. It is not for nothing that we have a lot of IC political discussions around such matters, that have a lot of shades of grey and are all but cats and mouses.

In any case if your posts are reported it is mainly because some people, myself included, find your tone very assertive and often condescending/arrogant. We are not being IC here.
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Laerise [PIE]

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #36 on: 06 May 2011, 13:26 »

I was a bit sarcastic  :)

Also Lyn, stop trying to flamebait me, tyvm.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #37 on: 07 May 2011, 04:42 »

Well this is a discussion about moderation, and your wording have been pointed out. I also pointed out what is the main issue for me. If you do not want to speak about that in a thread where you ask where is the problem, I don't know what else I could tell then. Not going to speak about cats and mouses.
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Laerise [PIE]

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #38 on: 07 May 2011, 04:58 »

Well this is a discussion about moderation, and your wording have been pointed out. I also pointed out what is the main issue for me. If you do not want to speak about that in a thread where you ask where is the problem, I don't know what else I could tell then. Not going to speak about cats and mouses.

This thread has made clear that the general opinion in regard to my statement/s is divided, as far as I am concerned the matter is settled.

Should you desire to continue the discussion on who is annoyed by what, please feel free to start another thread.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #39 on: 07 May 2011, 05:38 »

Again, very assetive and condescending. Division is not an excuse but the proof something is wrong somewhere.

And if division there is, that means it is NOT settled.
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Mizhara

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #40 on: 07 May 2011, 06:21 »

Again, very assetive and condescending.

Oh come on! I promised someone I wouldn't get deeper into it in this thread, but this one needs mention. If that is condescending and asseRtive, I need to question your definition on both words.
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Casiella

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Re: Where do I fit in?
« Reply #41 on: 07 May 2011, 09:02 »

[mod]As Laerise has had her question answered, I will close this thread. Please feel to start a new one for any further questions, issues, or criticisms of the moderation here.[/mod]
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