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Author Topic: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden  (Read 5272 times)

Saede Riordan

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #15 on: 23 Mar 2011, 13:01 »

I'm honestly wondering why this is an issue. Its effectively a minor tweak one way or another that doesn't particularly harm anyone's RP. Why do we need to dissect each and every little thing for "accuracy" can't we just have fun with the setting and not worry about the details that CCP themselves haven't worried about?
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Casiella

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #16 on: 23 Mar 2011, 13:03 »

Once again, repeat with me: "it's a big cluster". :D
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Kaleigh Doyle

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #17 on: 23 Mar 2011, 13:26 »

What's funny is even if CCP did spell everything out in explicit detail,  people will still argue and debate interpretation.

It's a big clusterf-... cluster.
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Ulphus

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #18 on: 23 Mar 2011, 13:30 »


I'd suggest that we have limited bandwidth for our RP over text channels, and describing something as a waltz does not need to imply that it's a similar dance in any way to a modern (or even original) waltz, other than that it fits into the same general social niche - it's a short-hand for a formal structured dance.

And given that IRL you could probably find waltz schools throughout much of the world (I bet you could find them in Russia, India, China and the US for a start - probably not Iran though, maybe Iraq before the war) There's no particular reason to think that if the waltz survived into the far future it would do so through the French.
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Matariki Rain

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #19 on: 23 Mar 2011, 19:04 »

This is something I poke at from time to time.

Is a waltz a waltz, or is it "a particular type of dance which has similar social (and physical?) characteristics and meaning to an early-21st-century waltz"?

I incline towards saying it's the EVE-universe equivalent of a waltz, not that humans waltzed through 20,000 years. I use "waltz" as a convenient package which sums up a huge amount of information, helps set the scene and allows us to concentrate on other aspects of the interaction. That means that in my RP a waltz might indeed look like a waltz, just as there are strands of Gallente art dance which I describe in terms of current ballet and Isadora-Duncan-style free dance. I want to use the resonances those have: to be able to compare ballet school with RMS basic training, for instance. So there are times when I translate, using modern terms to stand in for their EVE equivalents.

(This is just one thing I do, alongside extrapolation and invention. We have lots of tools in our RP toolboxes. It's fun to give them a workout.)

One of the reasons for using current RL words and concepts is to allow us to extrapolate based on what we know and assume. If someone's a confident dancer -- or not -- that suggests things about their background and personality. If someone's hand is slipping too low, that tells me something that doesn't need huge amounts of explanation. On the whole, I find this very useful.

I think a problem comes when we have different RL assumptions about things and we then draw different conclusions about the significance of an action.

So, for instance, a chain of thought might go "They're waltzing; waltzing is French; French is the stand-in we use for Gallentean; other stuff here is pinging my Gallente-dar: These people are doing Gallente stuff! Soon they'll be doing market research and voting on things!".

I might respond saying "I think they're using 'waltz' to stand on for some sort of formal partner dance: I always thought of the Amarrians as doing minuets, myself", or I might say "Dude, waltzing is German".

I don't think it's a bad thing to derive what you think an action means from assumptions about what's described: given how little canon we have and how much of that is debatable, and how rich our RP lives and relationships can be, I think we need to extrapolate a fair bit. I do think it's awkward when either our assumptions or the layers we build on them turn out to be different, and sometimes opposed.

Sometimes we can work that out by talking about it. Sometimes we just shrug and say "we do things differently in my clan/alliance/planet/polity" or "science must have advanced: isn't that wonderful". Sometimes some pilots end up thinking other pilots are mad, deceived or lying because they insist on things that clearly cannot be so. (That last one can lead to heartache and schisms. Classic bones of contention would be flying pod-ships without a pod, and whether it's possible to provide back-ups of crew.)

No big conclusion here. This is a pattern I see often. Mostly it works okay-to-well. Sometimes it doesn't. Maybe watch for it and think about it.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #20 on: 24 Mar 2011, 05:26 »

Anyway, waltz is of austrian origin, not french, isn't it ?
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Mizhara

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #21 on: 24 Mar 2011, 06:08 »

I'm more than willing to attribute a hodgepodge of current cultural heritages to almost any and all races and factions in Eve. Take the Matari as an example. When it comes to much of Matari culture I'm willing to incorporate anything from Norse mythology/culture to the voodoo of the Pacific (or it's ancestors in African culture) in the faith/culture along with all kinds of modern day society features and cultures simply because you can.

Would that block any of the other Eve cultures/nations from having something similar? Hardly. Since we OoC know everything in New Eden originally came from one place (Earth) and that everyone came through the Eve Gate... Well, that there'd be a freakin' hodgepodge of cultures, faiths and such involved in every last grouping out there is something I'd take for granted. If nothing else, the knowledge of the other cultural traits and such out there would be common.

Then, once the cataclysmic events that knocked us all back to planetbound life came along, it'd make sense that when rediscovering/reinventing things, there'd be all kinds of common links between the various factions/peoples in various degrees. Each would evolve a distinct culture and way, but in various degrees you'd probably find many similarities.

Amarr Nobility dancing a waltz? Definitely acceptable to me.

Besides, as Borza's mentioned a few times, not a single one of us in Eve speaks English so it's all just translations/terms that don't necessarily correspond to our real life equivalents.
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Bong-cha Jones

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #22 on: 24 Mar 2011, 07:20 »

Out of curiosity, because it's pretty far removed from my normal RP spheres of interest, what ties the Intaki to the subcontinent beyond the Reborn?

'Ida' is rooted in Sanskrit.  The oath of the Idamas is very similar to the Bodhisattva oath.  The tropical nature of the world fits too, something that quite a few players have built on in their writing.  I mean, personally, I've drawn heavily on the pueblo peoples and the Dogon for my influences, but I've intentionally been setting Simon's background up to be somewhat at odds with the default Intaki experience.  Can't say it's raised too many eyebrows; the cluster is very, very big  :)

Seri:  Why not have Caldari bhangra?  It's an energetic, athletic dance(s) with communal functions.  There's gotta be room for that somewhere in the State, even if it's just something workers do together in their spare time at celebrations.
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Casiella

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #23 on: 24 Mar 2011, 09:35 »

Thanks, Simon. And just to overemphasize, I wasn't criticizing, just trying to understand as most of the areas where I've spent time and attention have different foci completely. :)
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Rodj Blake

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #24 on: 24 Mar 2011, 10:44 »

If you ask me, Amarrians all dance like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anN_L-JiyIA
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Shintoko Akahoshi

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #25 on: 24 Mar 2011, 11:09 »

While the Khanids are more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3it4c0dcU4c

Mizhara

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #26 on: 24 Mar 2011, 11:43 »

While the Khanids are more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3it4c0dcU4c

And then there's Katashi dancing with Shin (from a ton of different angles. Amazing what angles and lighting will do to make things look different). Dancing... Shin/Katashi style.
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Benjamin Shepherd

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #27 on: 24 Mar 2011, 12:22 »

I think it's hilarious that you're all arguing over someone's imagination. CCP hasn't even given out any info over this, and so you must come up with something? No one is right here, no one is wrong, so just RP without having to make a reference to every EARTH-RELATED THING.
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Matariki Rain

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #28 on: 24 Mar 2011, 12:45 »

I think it's hilarious that you're all arguing over someone's imagination. CCP hasn't even given out any info over this, and so you must come up with something? No one is right here, no one is wrong, so just RP without having to make a reference to every EARTH-RELATED THING.

Benjamin, in light of what I've said above about using Earth-terms to stand in for things -- because we have an awful lot of gaps to fill in the EVE-world and it can be an effective way to fill those quickly -- how do you suggest I RP? Do it all in terms of the stuff I make up especially for EVE?
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Vieve

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Re: Dance and Culture Shift in New eden
« Reply #29 on: 25 Mar 2011, 11:52 »

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