Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Seriphyn]

One day, each CCP writer will not have their own image of each faction and portray vastly different, contradicting things...anyway, from the live devblog, CCP are aware of this, and will be consolidating everything, hooray!

One thing I thought would be interesting to explore is the social/wealth classes amongst the four main factions in EVE, and how they vary, and how the measure of wealth may vary between them.

Gallente - There are various, oft-clashing "facts" regarding the state of Gallentean citizens. In the Foiritan years, there's a comment about "unemployment nearing zero", and TonyG's own favourable leanings to the Gallente in TEA have them in a "near-utopian" state. But then, you've got "the poor numbering in the millions", and the idea that native citizens (ie. ethnic Gallente, Intaki, Jin-Mei and Mannar) occupy the "white collar" jobs and immigrant citizens (ie. Minmatar) occupy the "blue collar" jobs. Gallenteans may measure wealth by these two categories.

However, in The Burning Life, we were demonstrated a "megalopolis" on Gallente Prime. It is described as a massive, vertical pyramid, with multiple tiers with its own flora and working roadways on each level etc. Abraxas said "there was no social segregation" and that lifestyle moves with whatever wealth level you're on. So, the richest may inhabit the apex, but their lifestyle wouldn't necessarily be different from someone on the mid and lower tiers.

At any rate, I have the theory that Gallente society is divided between the "haves" and the "have-nots". The "haves" may have extremely comfortable standards of living, with all the excess and luxury that have been associated with the Gallente over the years. The ethnic makeup of these populations might be overwhelmingly native, but there's likely to be "immigrant success stories", too. The "haves", I feel, would be what is described by Abraxas in the Burning Life.

Then, the theoretical "have nots" are the ones that occupy the "undercity" of these megalopoli, and were not included in Abraxas' description, but were likely kicking around somewhere. These would be the failed migrant workers, the homeless, and those employed by shady businesses and so on.

I think this "stark contrast" and bipolarity might be something that defines the Federation's social class levels, and there may be no "clear, middle ground". Either you got it (holovisions in the bath, drones serving your whims etc) or you don't.

Caldari - A bit more easier to describe I think. Thanks to the meritocracy, I believe that there will be a much more, broader spectrum of wealth levels. You'll be able to divide it into multiple categories...workers, foremen, managers, junior execs, and so on. This contrasts with the Gallente's theoritical thing of having a more juxtaposed measure of class.

Though, the State also has a crapload of homeless too, or "Disassociated". They likely fall beneath the standard measure, ie. You've got the 6 categories of Caldari wealth levels, then those who are outside it altogether. I do wonder, though, that if almost everything is controlled by the eight megacorporations, where these homeless may actually be found? Where do they inhabit and live exactly? Abraxas' description of a Caldari city was a more horizontal "beehive" or somesuch, so who knows...though Caldari RPers might have some pieces of fiction that shed some light on this.

Amarr - This one's simple enough. Holders, Commoners and Slaves. However, I think the Amarr have their wealth measured differently to the Gallente/Caldari, putting less stock in materialism. While their lives may be extremely comfortable and extravagant, they might lack the things that a Gallente might consider "wealthy", ie. "You earn the same as me but, by the gods, why doesn't your car have holoscreens in it?! Are you mad?". Considering they have slaves to do their work (and, I imagine, in Holder households, they are likely to be the equivalent of houseservants), they use of drones is unnecessary, which may be found in Gallentean households.

A house owned by a Commoner family, for example, will be very comfortable, but it won't necessarily be dripping with ease-of-living technology. In fact, the Amarr are quick to shun the Gallente for their excessiveness and hedonism, so I would doubt they've got all the silly little things the Gallente have.

Minmatar - An odd beast, this one. The poorest and "underdog" of the four, but even saying "poor", they are still one of the four major powers regardless. I would say I'm stumped with this one, though I imagine their "slums" would be the worst of the four, prone to gang violence (ie. tribal violence) and other such things. A middle class citizen may be similar to the Amarr, in the sense everything for them is good and comfortable, but they lack those lazy Gallente's excessive appliances.

[Casiella]

Good post, Seri.

I don't doubt that significant divisions of wealth actually exist within the Minmatar (reference the Chronicle when Shakor gets "drafted"). However, there's likely a facade of "we're all in this together", with at least some basis in reality. That is, I would expect lots of support within most clans and tribes so that families have something to eat and a roof over their heads.

Several other chronicles have referenced roving gangs of young Minmatar street thugs. Perhaps they feel that they've got no real economic prospects for advancement due to social factors, lack of education, whatever, so their rebelliousness and anger gets displaced into these sorts of structures?

[Esna Pitoojee]

Also worth noting that the Empire has a class of "slave nobility" - that is, latter-generation slaves who have been "domesticated" and are considered loyal and tame enough to assign positions of relative wealth and authority. The luxury of these positions may equal some lower-class commoners, although I'd imagine the societal views toward the two are far different (slaves are still slaves, no matter if they have some luxuries).

I also reccomend reading the Chronicles "The Ever-turning Wheels" and "Chained to the Sky" - both give views from the lives of lower-level citizens of the Gallente Federation and the Amarr Empire, respectively. Interesting points in both - for instance, the aformentioned "slave nobility" may be issued (rent?) private apartments, even on a world as crowded as Athra.

[Lyn Farel]

Nice.

I think there is one thing that is more or less shared by at least 3 of the 4 nations : Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar.

Caldari : you are not part of a megacorportation, or part of a lesser corp owned by a mega, then you live like an outcast.

Amarr : you are not part of a Holder jurisdiction or the imperial administration jurisdiction (thus the Empress at its top), then you are like an outcast.

Minmatar : you are not part of a tribe, then you can live like an outcast.

I mean by outcast a people living on the fringes of the society.

[Hamish Grayson]

I think the original authors of Eve's PF intended the Caldari to have the least amount homeless.    In that version of Eve, the Caldari population was very small relative to the amount of space they controlled.   The orbital bombardment of their home world followed by a hundred years of war depleted the population severely and forced them to resort to the tube child program because the supply of labor was so short and why laborers were so highly valued.


It wasn't until just before FW that all Caldari corps were retconned into clones of the Omni Consumer Products from Robocop.   

In the new version of Eve, Kaalakiota didn't create Caldari Funds Unlimited to take care of it's low-level employees and wasn't the largest and most successful because it invested the most heavily into it's people like successful companies do in the real world.   In the new version it's the biggest because it was the most oppressive and therefore squeezed more profits out  of it's enslaved employees.

[Saede Riordan]

I think the original authors of Eve's PF intended the Caldari to have the least amount homeless.    In that version of Eve, the Caldari population was very small relative to the amount of space they controlled.   The orbital bombardment of their home world followed by a hundred years of war depleted the population severely and forced them to resort to the tube child program because the supply of labor was so short and why laborers were so highly valued.


It wasn't until just before FW that all Caldari corps were retconned into clones of the Omni Consumer Products from Robocop.   

In the new version of Eve, Kaalakiota didn't create Caldari Funds Unlimited to take care of it's low-level employees and wasn't the largest and most successful because it invested the most heavily into it's people like successful companies do in the real world.   In the new version it's the biggest because it was the most oppressive and therefore squeezed more profits out  of it's enslaved employees.

I think I liked the old way better

[Silas Vitalia]

I too, prefer the pre retcon Caldari.

Very fun post to read, good insights. I would love to hear a bit more about the Matari wealth if one of our more knowledgeable RPers could contribute.

Regarding Amarr Holders and wealth, I think you can make a case for the higher level nobility material 'excess,' but in a different way than the Gallente. This is the faction with the gaudy, shiny-gold ships and stations, remember?

The wealthy Gallenteans are 'new money' in the temporal sense of new facilities, material possessions, etc.  The Amarr wealthy holders are generally wealthy not through any act of their own, but because 'x' holder family has been ridiculously wealthy for the last 900 years, and that's just the way it's always been.  Social mobility up to the high levels is a rare thing, unless you are talking about a slow rise or fall of a holder family over hundreds of years of plotting and vendettas, etc.  Opulence wise, I think more "priceless antique" and family heirloom property, rather than the newest modern examples of wealth.  Yes, that's Aunt so-and-so's dress from the Emperor's coronation 600 years ago. Yes it's gold thread.  That throne over there? 750 years old, yes those are actual diamonds, etc.

Now there's certainly a case to be made for a much more modest, monk-like aesthetic in many homes, locations, etc, but in my imagination at least I see the Holder class as being ridiculously opulant with displays of wealth, especially at court/palace intrigue levels.  Just being completely out-of-touch with anyone outside of that social class. Versailles levels of opulence, but of course in an Amarrian aesthetic. 

I know the aesthetics are completely different and it's hard to make comparisons, but I often tend to imagine more of a 'dune' feel with regards to the Amarr and court politics, palace scheming, that sort of thing. How Dune would spend half the book detailing intricate plots amongst the court of the Emperor, etc. That sort of ridiculous wealthy extravagance in materials and settings. Again very rough to compare the two, just my 2 cents.

 

[Lyn Farel]

Dune or Rome. The Rome series is very close to some aspects of the amarrian daily life, especially for slaves.

[Mithfindel]

Gallente: The public image is likely quite egalitarian. The official figures show everything is right. There is, however, possibilities of a underworld hidden from plain view (see the Short Stories of a hidden drug factory). The greatest excesses are likely hidden from the public. Media plays a very important role. If the activists don't know of the excesses, they're happy.

Caldari: Likely structure between different grades of pay, but as long as the meritocracy works, it's not really a class system, as mobility between different pay grades can be assumed to be high. The system is corrupt, though, as wealthy people are likely able to get their children into better schools, possibly assign them better jobs in their corporations etc. as long as they don't anger anyone who cares and can cause them trouble.

Minmatar: The underworld likely has great differences of wealth. The lawful part, not necessarily, though no doubt differences exist. If things go like in the real world, the poorer the people are on the average, the higher the excesses of the few very richest.

Amarr: There's two scales to be considered. First, position in the society, and second, wealth. The position depends on a whole wealth of things, but ultimately, Royals/High Clergy > Holders/Clergy > Wealthy Commoners > Other Commoners > Better-off Slaves > Work Slaves > Recently captured slaves. In the case of wealth, a successful commoner may have more power than a Holder whose family was given their holdings on a backwater planet in Aridia a millennium ago, and has since been successful mostly at spending money. Of course, if the two meet, the commoner bows before the noble. The slaves in royal courts may have very great unofficial power, but they, in turn, are lower in rank than commoners. This case isn't as clear-cut as the previous Holder and commoner case, since a powerful slave may be able to use the position of his master to make commoners do his bidding as long as the bureaucracy isn't there watching.

[Cmdr Baxter]

I've always thought that Caldari society, pre-retcon, was too whitewashed and it never sat well with me. Megacorporate CEOs putting the welfare of their workers ahead of responsibilities to their shareholders? These are men (and women) whose primary goal is to provide a financial return to people who have invested in their corporations. Providing "extras" to their workers - things beyond what would be required for a routine day-to-day existence - would cut into the bottom line and thus their net profits.

To use an example, if the CEO had to balance upgrading equipment against a bonus to the employees which would they choose? The first one yields a long-term benefit (greater efficiency, increased productivity, less maintenance) whereas the latter is only a short-term benefit (increased morale, increased circulation in corporate scrip which ultimately gets funneled back into the corporations anyways). The first one indirectly yields more profits, which would probably cause it to be the winning factor.

With what I've said in mind I think that - as compared to the other races - the Caldari have a much more glaring income disparity between those at the top and those at the bottom. People whose sole function is the acquisition of wealth and power (granted on behalf of their shareholders) are naturally going to want a slice of that for themselves. If they squeeze those at the bottom in an effort for a leaner bottom line, there's going to be an obvious difference in monetary incomes. Which doesn't marginalize the fact that the workers at the bottom are working anyways - they're not out on the streets, they have jobs, they have (corporate-provided) homes. It still counts as a focus on the greater good, and that is a most Caldari virtue, right? 

So I have to say that I like the new post-retcon Caldari society. It's grittier and colder, and I think it dovetails better with the thought of a hyper-corporate society that was forged under the auspices of competition and a struggle for survival.

I think the original authors of Eve's PF intended the Caldari to have the least amount homeless. In that version of Eve, the Caldari population was very small relative to the amount of space they controlled.  The orbital bombardment of their home world followed by a hundred years of war depleted the population severely and forced them to resort to the tube child program because the supply of labor was so short and why laborers were so highly valued.

Let's not forget that it's been, what, a century since the Caldari gained their independence? (I'm not sure how out-of-date the Caldari timeline is.) If we compare the present State to the immediate post-independence State I think one of the biggest things to jump out at people is going to be the population size. There's no more threat of a Gallente invasion - they have CONCORD to keep the peace and maintain the unofficial status quo - so the competition is economic, not military. And from a corporate standpoint keeping thousands upon thousands of unproductive workers on the payroll is going to sink your profits.

Just ask the Japanese corporations in trouble now because they're continuing to pay retirees to remain on the payrolls.

[Akikio L]

It's interesting that people focus on the poverty when talking about the Minmatar. Looking at human nature in general and real world societies with tribal background I can see lots of tribal funds siphoned in to the wallets of those with power. A lot of wealth might not go straight in to the wallets of individuals but be used for projects benefitting those closest to the higher ups within the tribal hierarchies. Tribes may fund building of new residential areas but who gets to live there? Who gets to live in the better areas, the newly arrived refugee family from the Empire or a tribe elders grand daughter and her pet fedo?  

I'm thinking the Amarr Empire might be the one where capsuleers provoke the order and traditions most. This depends on how the process of picking out pod pilot candidates is controlled but from what I understand all the nations have been pretty eager to find anyone within their population fit for pod training. This would lead to exceptional social mobility for a lower class family with a capsuleer capable member. In a few years a capsuleer can amass wealth to rival at least smaller holder families.