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Author Topic: Bodymods (and combat applications)  (Read 6733 times)

Seriphyn

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Bodymods (and combat applications)
« on: 21 Feb 2011, 20:45 »

I've been playing too much Deus Ex and looking forward to its latest installment but....

The Gallenteans are apparently the masters of body modification, replacing entire internal organs with canisters fill of liquid that do the same thing, then replacing the abdomen skin with something translucent so that you can see it yourself. Or add spikes to your wrists, and get a perfect body. All according to the TBL.

Those are of course the extreme cases, but in this post, I wonder two things...firstly, what are the more casual applications of bodymods, that teenagers might try out, or the average Joe but use? For example...

- Hardened liver: Drink all the fuck you want, baby
- "Stamina" enhancement: Infinite testes capacity
- Lungs: swim forever
- Leg muscles: run forever...
- <total lack of inspiration>

So on, and so forth. Then I thought of military applications. Perhaps the top FIO agents are extensively bodymodded? If the Gallente can replace internal organs with canisters in the civilian world, then they could easily do the same for agents if it means increased survivability. Take a shot to the gut, it doesn't really cause bleeding or any sort of internal organ damage....replace entire limbs with prosthetics...

It's not really mentioned anywhere at all other than the Burning Life (and in civilian use). But "biomechanical" Gallentean agents doesn't sound too farfetched, or maybe I'm playing too much DX.

Anyway, feel free to share you thoughts, most importantly, I challenge you to come up with creative bodymods that the Gallente might use (realistically, not camp tyvm), given that apparently the only limitations is your imagination.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #1 on: 21 Feb 2011, 21:34 »

Interesting.

I have to feel that extensive cybernetics would be extremely cost-prohibitive for most any run of the run of the mill soldier, though.  I imagine extremely well-trained special forces teams would have at least some basic ocular and physical modifications or other goodies. Some good room for inventive fiction here. 

You'd quickly run into a cost / benefit senario though given the prohibitive cost of cybernetic combat modifications, so I would guess only the best of the best on the most important missions would have anything at say, a ghost in the shell level *shrug*  But then again best of the best small teams are great places for stories to start sometimes ;)

Would certainly like more PF on this though, considering the whole Khanid 'cyber-knight' thing has been woefully underdeveloped. Religious zealot cyborgs running around ruining people's days?  Yes please.



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Mithfindel

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #2 on: 22 Feb 2011, 01:27 »

Read "A Life in Three Acts".

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=19-05-08

Hello, DUST soldiers.
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Borza

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #3 on: 22 Feb 2011, 03:36 »

Furries.  :eek:
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DosTuMai

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #4 on: 22 Feb 2011, 05:32 »

I'd suppose things like wrist-mounted weapons, extendable claws/blades/spikes for personal combat. That sort of thing would be financially viable.
There is somewhere info about implanted explosives, so implanted cybernetic pewpew and stabbitty wouldn't be farfetched. Although, I'd hate someone to piss off a military modded Mei, she'd make a terrible mess, considering she already does with those nice, pointy teeth of hers.
I'll see if I can work something out.
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Isobel Mitar

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #5 on: 22 Feb 2011, 06:02 »

I imagine bodymods Joe Average might want would fall primarily into four categories.
 
1) Medical, such as replacement kneejoints or fixing bad eyesight or asthma
2) Small helpful appliances integrated to the body, such as PDAs
3) Stuff that increases control over personal bodily functions or immediate surroundings
4) Cosmetic changes/enhancements, such as selectable hair colour or makeup you can turn on and off at will

I suspect far more people would be willing to pay for control over their digestive system (helps with weight management!) than the ability to run forever.

Militarily, I would expect stuff like communication devices and cameras would be more popular than physical hand-to-hand combat enhancements like increased strength or weapons. I imagine majority of space-age combat might happen at longer distances than hand-to-hand combat, and that fog of war is still an issue.

Also, assuming the cost of bodymodding is not trivial, bodymodding the people who are going to do most of the dying is likely not as cost-effective as bodymodding the others.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #6 on: 22 Feb 2011, 06:27 »

Ah, I forgot about the Khanid cyber-knight thing, and that is definitely something in addition. It's interesting to note the use of "Amarrian mastery of cyber implants"...Amarrian Heirs have significant cybernetics to support them right? So it sounds to me as if the Amarrians hold the leading technology in cybernetics, which is distinct from Gallentean mastery of medicine. While the Amarrians might use electronics and cyber thingies, the Gallenteans might rely on more "artificial-natural" replacements instead, biomechanical, not computer stuff, if you catch my drift.

The only downside of this discussion is the sudden appearance of a bunch of Mary Sues with their rocket gun arms and laser eyes :P
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Inara Subaka

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #7 on: 22 Feb 2011, 13:35 »

Enhancements through <isert proceedure> are a common theme in the EVE universe. Capsuleers themselves afe just people with the right genetics to prevent wetgrave and a heavy amount of hardware wired directly yo their nervous systems.

Then take a look at the Nation, "improvments" are the status quo via use of implants of various types. The serpentis are masters of biological/chemical improvements, boosters for Capsuleers and other variations for non-eggers. The State is listed a using 'mobile suits' of some type, as well as 'power armor', both that are likely (though, not necessarily) use a cybornetic interface.

Personally, I RP Inara as having auditory implants, allowing her to hear better and filter out extraneous noises.

Further 'options' could include visual implants, to improve sight or allow viewing of different spectrums of light (would be useful for combat as well as many engineering purposes); not to mention optional recording abilities.. Bone replacement or enhancements to allow more strain (lifting more, injury prevention in atheletics, etc...).

Likely, many enhancements are cheap/common it's simply up to the individual whether or not they want to spend the excess Kredits on them.
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Shintoko Akahoshi

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #8 on: 22 Feb 2011, 14:05 »

I'd posted a nice reply here, but I think it was lost in the site migration. Anyway...

I've noticed a few things in PF over the years that seem to point towards Amarrian/Khanid body modifications being largely cybernetic, while Gallente/Caldari modifications being largely biological. The Khanid cybernetic knights, Holders and the Emperor's life extension cybernetics, and the like all point toward an extensive and well developed cybernetic program in Amarr society.

At the same time, you have the modifications in the Burning Life, which seem to be mostly non-mechanical and non-cybernetic. You have the obviously high development in biology and biotechnology in the State, which led to in vitro fertilization and gestation of babies on a massive scale. Considering this happened soon after the end of the first Gallente-Caldari war, I'd imagine both civilizations shared similar levels of development here. Also note the focus that both the Serpentis and the Intaki Syndicate have on boosters, which also speak to a high level of understanding of biology.

In my own case, Shin's backstory says that her "family" were subjects in a program to produce humans better developed to life in space, immediately prior to the outbreak of the first G-C war. That fits well with the idea that Caldari and Gallente biological technology is well developed.

One thing I've always liked about Ghost in the Shell has been Shirow's claim that the greater expense involved in extensive body modification is in maintenance. Because of that, I can easily see the average Gallentean adopting useful low-maintenance modifications: implanted data links, medical modifications, etc. Specialized soldiers and the like might have more extensive ones, while pod pilots would, of course, not even notice the expense.

Also, Ian M. Banks' Culture stories provide some good insights into the sorts of modifications the average Gallentean might value.

Mithfindel

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #9 on: 23 Feb 2011, 07:05 »

While the Amarr implantation of holders is meant to be both flashy and useful, medically it doesn't fundamentally differ from the Gallentean approach. An artificial liver or a heart is an artificial liver or a heart, no matter where it is installed. Some very old sources do indicate, though, that purely decorative implants were also a trend for younger Holders, since implantation is associated wit power in the Amarr society.

For the military, I'd most certainly assume that the most useful implants would be C3I (Commond, Communications, Control and Intelligence) related implants, interfaces to different equipment and sensors. A soldier that could hear like a dog and see in the dark, for example - with a built-in radio interface to report to the command post. Kind of an equivalent to what we see in space - near-total battlefield awareness by almost instinctive reports from soldiers. Some commando types might have strength modifications, such as enabling them to cross terrain at superior speed compared to regular soldiers.

And then, since people like things that make other things go boom, perhaps such things as integrated ocular implants to smart guns. In PF a quick draw implant has been mentioned, I believe. In addition, there might be other similar applications, such as automatic targeting implants. A sniper detects a target with his enhanced senses, assigns the implant suite a target which checks the integrated rangefinder on the cybereyes, calculated wind strength based on available cues and then starts to track the target. On command, the weapon is fired. Target down.

Or, back to my other example, a commander might be receiving coded messages from the front-line soldiers about a group of enemies detected. The commander lays his hand on a self-propelled gun and gives bombardment targets via implanted connection. Field gun executes orders, the other people die for their whatever.
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DosTuMai

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #10 on: 23 Feb 2011, 08:22 »

[stuff]
I was going to say about fire-control systems.
Personally, I think a GitS-style Khanid would be sexy, but yah, I've been reading up a little about cybernetics and biological bodymods and can only think of two things for 'Joe Average'; it depends on how far they're willing to go, and on their bank balance.
Body modding isn't limited to replacement parts, you can include tattoos and piercings in that list. I  think that a society with EVE's level of technology can go as far as GitS-style cyborgs and genetically modded freaks with 37 arms and blue-green-pink skin.
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hellgremlin

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #11 on: 23 Feb 2011, 08:44 »

Huh... I made a big long post here, and it's gone now.
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Gottii

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #12 on: 23 Feb 2011, 12:00 »

Huh... I made a big long post here, and it's gone now.

Yeah...thats odd.  I was gonna post something in response to it.  Now I cant find it.
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Vieve

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #13 on: 23 Feb 2011, 13:13 »

Looks like my natterings also disappeared.  I remember responding to Shin's comment about Banks' Culture novels (and the original comment about maintenance of mods potentially being aggravating) with a remark about one of the scenes that stuck in my head from Greg Bear's Queen of Angels.  The bodymodded policewoman character spends a tidy chunk of time inspecting and ruminating about the work done to give her dark skin.

I'm fairly sure I then segued into some brilliant commentary about how the clash between the 'therapied' and 'non-therapied' folks in that book's future Earth might look a fair bit like some of the conflicts going on between the 'have money to have surgical self-improvement" vs. the "don't have money to have surgical self-improvement" folks in Federation culture.  Yep, it was likely brilliant.

I do remember Istvaan's long post.  It too was brilliant, and thank you for reminding me who wrote that damn story that inspired me to write about 'tweaker parties' when I was flailing around trying to figure out how in the hell Sabi was still alive (this after Soter fished her out of one of my old character applications and dropped her in my lap).  Oh, yeah, and thanks for the story too, in case that wasn't clear from the previous demented sentence.
« Last Edit: 23 Feb 2011, 13:23 by Vieve »
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Bodymods (and combat applications)
« Reply #14 on: 23 Feb 2011, 13:46 »

Huh... I made a big long post here, and it's gone now.

the forum migrated.

and like the migratory swallow, some of the posts didn't make it and died en-route :(
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