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That small colony hangars cannot have comprehensive hangar security systems due to the need to scramble forces quickly? (The Burning Life p. 78)

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Author Topic: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"  (Read 12957 times)

Seriphyn

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Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« on: 01 Feb 2011, 11:47 »

So, the Federation "relies heavily on drones and other automated systems", and then there is the piece of PF from Temperate processors

Quote
Populated almost entire by robotic laborers, mass production facilities excel at creating products in bulk with minimal supervision and maintenance. They can be so self-sufficient that rumors abound of Gallente factories operated entirely by androids and governed by a skeleton crew of drones. (Detractors of this method like to note that Sansha facilities work in much the same fashion.) Either way, the results are irrefutable: Raw materials and components go in one end, and polished commodities come out the other side

Now, I think we associate the word "drones" with spacebound things akin to what we see in-game. "Frontline defences" in the Federation prior to the outbreak of new conflict was also composed of drones when compared to soldiers, so perhaps it might be something akin to...

[spoiler][/spoiler]

(on an unrelated note, EVE certainly needs more 'visualizations')

What do people think? You might have spotted tidbits of PF that I haven't...and curious to know what "other automated systems" might entail.

Federation military possibly having a droid army contingent is interesting though.
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hellgremlin

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #1 on: 01 Feb 2011, 11:57 »

The thing to be kept in mind, is that automated systems aren't trusted in Eve Online. We have some extremely prominent examples in this universe, of what happens when you try to imbue machines with life.

Now, I'm not going to call it canon, because this came from *my own* stories (Eighth Plague, Fuel,) and even though E-ON published them, I'm still the guy who applied the concept to Eve...

But the Amarr have laws against techno-heresy. Essentially, "traipsing upon God's domain in creating life." Because creating a sentient technological construct can NOT be called anything else. It is life. It wants to preserve itself, it wants to ensure the continuation of its kind. That's a living creature.

Now, if the Amarr have laws against that sort of thing, then it stands to reason that other empires might have something similar. Perhaps, not so rooted in theology, but the aim is still the same: If you develop machines that can think better than humans, eventually they will out-think their creator, and start pursuing their own goals.
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Senn Typhos

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #2 on: 01 Feb 2011, 12:08 »

Advanced autonomous battledrones? I don't know, potential for catastrophic backfiring aside, I wouldn't exclude it from the Gallentean pursuit of drone technology. Lets say improbable.

Dumbass factory bots with inherent lack of expansive intelligence? Pioneers of the technology after all. I guess what it comes down to is, how far up the scale of "intelligence" is too risky to put to use?

All the way up to "assistant" androids, I wouldn't call out of the question, since we already know AIMEDs exist on stations. Maybe there are commercially available androids of similar varieties, with the capacity to act as a secretary of sorts.

As far as the limit on military application of drone technology, well...

http://military.discovery.com/videos/ultimate-weapons-robotic-warrior-the-mule.html
« Last Edit: 01 Feb 2011, 12:10 by Senn Typhos »
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Shintoko Akahoshi

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #3 on: 01 Feb 2011, 12:21 »

I've always claimed that Shin's ships are crewed by robots, and "temperate processors" finally gives me a leg to stand on, here.  I can see there being restrictions on robots similar to the restrictions on AI in Dune, but Shin's not particularly law-abiding, so...

Senn Typhos

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #4 on: 01 Feb 2011, 12:27 »

I hate to post so swiftly after already making a point, but, there's also the potential applications for advanced roles in society. Tellers, ushers, etc. Another thought; seeing-eye drones? vOv
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Seriphyn

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #5 on: 01 Feb 2011, 12:31 »

Oh, I wasn't necessarily referring to the Federation in the OP, btw, but the other factions too. The Minmatar might use it the least since they don't have access to "high tech" stuff and prefer mechanical or some such...I think...?

As for battle androids, it wouldn't be too farfetched, if they're programmed like space combat drones. "Go here" "attack that" "take cover here" etc.

Abraxas appears the most creative of the lot, and he actually made the Gallente sound like an original sci-fi creation in the Burning Life. While Minmatar are space punks, Caldari militarists, and Amarr theocrats, perhaps the Gallente will be utopianists, with "automated systems" going down as far as city's sanitary systems, law enforcement, etc. We'll Seeā„¢ with this "Immersionist" project.
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hellgremlin

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #6 on: 01 Feb 2011, 12:32 »

I've always claimed that Shin's ships are crewed by robots, and "temperate processors" finally gives me a leg to stand on, here.  I can see there being restrictions on robots similar to the restrictions on AI in Dune, but Shin's not particularly law-abiding, so...

Mmm. I don't think it's a matter of "law abiding" or otherwise in Eve. It's more of a matter of... "Yes, you can create an AI that does anything you want. But eventually it will start doing what IT wants." Even pirates or criminals wouldn't want to create one of these bastards, much less enough of them to crew a ship.

Remember: a computer thinks far faster than a human. Everything a human could possibly think of in his lifetime, a computer has factored and analyzed within the first milliseconds of its existence. It can take a human being DECADES to alter his way of thinking; a computer can make that alteration within a nanosecond, and reverse it whenever it pleases.
« Last Edit: 01 Feb 2011, 12:33 by hellgremlin »
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hellgremlin

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #7 on: 01 Feb 2011, 12:37 »

I hate to post so swiftly after already making a point, but, there's also the potential applications for advanced roles in society. Tellers, ushers, etc. Another thought; seeing-eye drones? vOv
We have ocular implants in Eve's "modern-day," which the middle class could easily afford; why would we need seeing-eye drones? ;)
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Senn Typhos

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #8 on: 01 Feb 2011, 12:39 »

My problem is, its easy to tell a drone to attack a ship. Each vessel, I imagine, carries unique signatures; heat, weapon and engine trails, comm systems, etc. Telling a drone to attack a person, well, they'd need the ability to differentiate between humans.

That being said... if AIMEDs can tell the difference between humans and diagnose their illnesses, perhaps there's a system by which organic bodies can be told apart. Again, heat signatures, facial and retinal scans, that sort of thing. However, in combat, these would be incredibly difficult to implement. Soldiers wearing any kind of combat equipment would probably lose their defining features. Friendlies could be given strobes to keep them out of harms way, but, if that were the case, I imagine combat drones would be something like shock troopers; turn on your strobe while the thing starts turning on the heat signatures that don't have one.

Still, it's EVE, so its not as if you don't have room to say the system works via technology we don't understand in the modern age. That ocular implants can process images as quickly as a human eye says something for the analytic systems in existence in the cluster.
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Ulphus

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #9 on: 01 Feb 2011, 14:01 »

The Minmatar might use it the least since they don't have access to "high tech" stuff and prefer mechanical or some such...I think...?

The Minmatar are quite capable of designing, building and using high tech, TYVM. They may have logistics issues still which guide some of their choices, and different priorities about what's important, but the best of the Matari tech is still comparable with anyone elses.

Have a nice day.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #10 on: 01 Feb 2011, 14:08 »

Automated factories maybe possible, not but economically viable.
At least not in a population rich empire like the Federation with an expansive lower class of cheap minmatar labour.
Same goes for the Empire, where the labour force is exactly the same, they just don't have the illusion of freedom.

Automatization comes into play when the jobs cannot be performed by human workers any more, or comes economically unsound to use a labour force that consists of people.

I would say that the diagnosis is sci-fi-itis with a heavy dose of space opera.
« Last Edit: 01 Feb 2011, 14:16 by lallara zhuul »
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Z.Sinraali

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #11 on: 01 Feb 2011, 14:16 »

There's also the fact that Podder-Owned Starbases are operated at least in part by robots.

Robots which are destroyed in the process.

I suspect when the final robot revolution comes, anybody who's run a tower will be first up against the wall.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #12 on: 01 Feb 2011, 14:22 »

Or the development of EVEs world and how it works truly embraces the Dark Side when it discovers midichlorians on top of the planet buster weaponry that is abound.

All we need is stormtroopers in spiffy uniforms, no wait...
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #13 on: 01 Feb 2011, 15:45 »

one of the chronicles, mentions that having an ex-holder as a slave is considerably more prestigious than having an android to pour your coffee.
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Shintoko Akahoshi

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Re: Drones, androids and "other automated systems"
« Reply #14 on: 01 Feb 2011, 17:19 »

Yeah, but an android is sexier...
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