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[Milo Caman]

Alright, let's try this again. Following on from it's predecessor. Some of this will be paraphrased from the previous thread.

For those of you not following the eRaeg, here is a link..

It seems that the ANN announcements thread explodes every time we post an article about the ILF or IRED at the moment. Site traffic has jumped about 400%, and I actually have to clear the spam queue once in a while to avoid losing legit comments.
However, things turned sour when I received a mail from one of my Freelancers who I was previously on good terms with. Whilst I still suspect strings have been pulled due to the nature of the email, I'm not going to point any fingers at the second. Nor am I going to do it here.

I would like to clarify a few things OOC as well:

-Whilst previous articles were written to provoke, given previous reception, as well as a preference towards the moral high ground, every effort was made to keep this one objective.
-Only two writers who regularly write for ANN under a pseudonym are in Anshar Incorporated. Freelancers are typically actual Freelancers as we claim.
-We did indeed try to contact John Revenant. I assume there was a bug involved.
-For the Love of god, stop Pyramid Quoting.

Discuss.

[Andreus Ixiris]

I solidly maintain that quite a lot of this debacle could have been completely avoided if you people had accepted his assertion that he never received any of your attempts to contact him.

[mod]Please avoid personal attacks[/mod]

[Milo Caman]

I don't think we expressly stated he ignored them at any point, only suggested that he might've done, however, that caused problems in itself.

That said, I do get the feeling that Someone from that Bloc would've popped up and tried to defame the article anyway. You'll notice that John actually made the first post Re: the article in question.

[Ciarente]

[mod] As this topic already went downhill fast once, the mods would like to remind you all to post within the guidelines, and not to respond to posts you report. [/mod]

[Andreus Ixiris]

You'll notice that John actually made the first post Re: the article in question.

Well that was mostly because he was (in my view, justifiably) upset by what it implied about him and his organisation. As a friend and ally of his, I can quite clearly see why.

[Milo Caman]

I'd like to know what he thought it implied? It didn't really imply anything. It's a fairly widely known fact that QCATS regularly engage in acts of piracy.

[Andreus Ixiris]

Generally when one says someone "could not be reached for further comment", it implies either an inability or unwillingness to talk to the press, whether or not such an implication is strictly intended.

[Senn Typhos]

It probably would have stopped early if we simply said we'd never contacted the other parties, but that's just not the case, afaik. Accepting assertions for the sake of not agitating another party doesn't really solve anything, does it? Appealing to inoffensive dialogue is not the purpose of a media group.

I'm not going to say anyone in one camp or the other is innocent and free of blame for heated IC exchanges, but if the result of honest endeavors to keep an article unbiased will be met with the same, if not a worse level of venomous responses as one meant to spark controversy, I have to wonder what this argument is really about, and if it can progress at all.

[Syylara/Yaansu]

I'm not going to say anyone in one camp or the other is innocent and free of blame for heated IC exchanges, but if the result of honest endeavors to keep an article unbiased will be met with the same, if not a worse level of venomous responses as one meant to spark controversy, I have to wonder what this argument is really about, and if it can progress at all.

Syyl'ara stated what objections she had to the article's content.

The majority of the IGS posts weren't so much about the article itself, but a kerfuffle between ILF/I-RED pilots and an Anshar pilot throwing everything they had at each other.  Given the full context of the last few weeks/months, I find absolutely nothing out of place about this.  Personally, I found it to be an enjoyable exchange of conflict-based RP.

There seems to be a lot of presumption that people who's characters have filed objections also hold those objections as players.  Bottom line, Syyl'ara perceived the article to be a (veiled) snipe.  If I -the player- were to take your OOC assurances that it was well-intended and change her attitude based on that, I'd be meta-gaming.

Now that there's OOC hurt feelings, I'm just going to take a step back and will find some other way to entertain myself.  This is really all I have to add on the issue, as I have no intention of getting into a back-and-forth with other players.  This is a leisure activity, I deal with interpersonal politics enough at work.

[Saxon Hawke]

For those of you who don't know, Levi and I are both professional journalists. We went through the same J-school program and we do talk out of game (and mostly about things not related to Eve).

Levi recently hit me up for some ideas on how to teach in-game reporters to act more like "legitimate" journalists. Apparently this was something Milo had asked him to work on. Then I got a call from him today and he said, "Never mind, I'm done."

From what he told me, it wasn't the latest article, but the editorial comments that followed. The best way I can describe it is that Levi isn't really a role-player. He put some stuff in his bio to give the character a background, but Levi the character was pretty much just a stand-in for the real guy, which is to say a reporter who enjoys dabbling in science fiction.

So in-character and out something about what the Milo character said on the ANN site rubbed him the wrong way and he's opting out. I don't know what his long-term plans are, but he's disappointed.

I'd encourage Milo to archive the articles if he does decide to remove them. One thing about Levi is that he sometimes shoots from the hip and is a bit more reasonable after the heat of the moment has passed.

The e-mail he uses for his Eve stuff is levisaul@rocketmail.com, you can contact him directly if you want to hear the story from him.

[Senn Typhos]

I've tried hard to keep the OOC and IC divide visible while this engagement has been going on, but I suppose part of me expected that somewhere down the line, someone would take it personally and cause more problems than the original issue did. I don't know, maybe it's just the nature of things at this point.

I'm sad to see Levi go, but the media group functions as a whole, and freelancers can come and go as they please. As for the remaining freelancers, they might not be "professional" journalists, and might not practice "legitimate" approaches, but I would say having diligently worked to counter the criticisms of the previous articles, they're respectable in my eyes. Even if they're not "actual" journalists, they're also not "actual" cyberized godkillers in space. RP is RP.

I'll enjoy the interaction to the extent I can, but personally I don't expect the situation to change. So ANN and Anshar will do what they will, and I won't expect I-RED/ILF pilots to let this situation bring them down. Neither group really "needs" the approval of the other, ICly or OOCly. We're all our own people, after all.

[John Revenent]

RP is RP, so long as I-RED feels we are being targeted in the public eye by a media group we view as run and operated by pirates. (Which all of our Government and most of our pilots view these articles as.) We will continue to defend ourselves, our allies, as long as the same journalists keep implying we are incompetent such as past articles because of one sided views will result in continuous debates we hold on the IGS.

On the other note I have had reds convo me today and my mail system is working fine. I only have the pilots Alacante and Sarah Letha blocked for bastardly greifing acts against I-RED.

I will also add I support pirate groups OOCly openly, I always keep my IC views IC and OOC where it belongs. I like the ANN OOCly, even if it causes issues ICly, so maybe with IC pressures things will change.

Like I tell everyone I RP with and piss off... Its a game, lets get to it.

[Valdezi]

Firstly, my apologies. I've been away with work and I missed all the drama. I just got caught up on all the threads in question.

From my own perspective, I thought that the article in question did have attacks in the ILF in it, even if they were more veiled than previously. The implication that it took 'only' five ships to take down the starbase (suggesting we are weak, and it's also false, but that's neither here nor there) plus a few other small things probably led a couple of ILF personnel to respond negatively to the article. IC, there is some justification for the response. It really shouldn't be that mystifying.

However, this is all IC. As I said to Milo in the OOC channel, we certainly aren't taking things personally OOC. Sure IC, from my character's perspective Anshar are using ANN to attempt to destroy the ILF's reputation, and as far as he sees it, it isn't working.

I'm not sure how helpful it is to take this OOC. As far as I can see this only has the potential to cause harm and create OOC friction. I've seen it happen countless times. Let's get on with hating each other IC, shall we?

[Milo Caman]

Well. Levi appears to have changed his mind Re: Leaving and has explained his situation. The only reason OOC drama spilled out was because Levi decided to drop ANN due to the storm occurring in the comments thread. I Agree with Mammal in that this should stay cordial OOC, and keep things rolling IC.

I'd also like to apologize to John regarding the 'could not be reached' comment. I can only assume there was a bug involved. I've filed a report in the hope that perhaps CCP can come to the bottom of that one.

As for the IRED/ILF pilots who are/were flaming the article IC, by all means carry on, but there will certainly be less heated response on our side now. I'd appreciate it if you could try not to take the thread pages into double figures though?  

[Senn Typhos]

I think I can agree with that. I mean conflict is a good way for corps to define themselves...

We've got a system to ravage with our evil pirate-ness and the defenders have... well, unless I'm mistaken, the only Serp-affiliated capsuleer corp to fight back against. Room for growth all around, amarite.