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[Casiella]

I think that, as a general rule, that's a good way to go. In this particular case, though, I find the IGS of limited value because of the structure from CCP. I suppose that the IGS can work well as a venue for propaganda wars. But I generally don't play characters that indulge in that sort of thing.

Really, I need to find more interesting IC channels and then start conversations in them.

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

So then what's the proper response when someone ignorantly claims that your IG actions don't support your IGS postings when, in fact, they actually do and the person making the claim doesn't know what the hell they're talking about?

1) Inform them, if you think it is a genuine case of not being aware, it is someone who's opinion you care about, and you can do so without risking your own operational security.
2) Otherwise, ignore them. If they really know but are making stupid claims, no one who you actually need to care about believes them more than you (because if your actions are that public, it is likely the people who actually matter to you also know). If you do not care about their opinion anyway, chances are the people you do care about don't either, so same thing. The opsec point is self-evident.

What's the proper response when someone spends more time tearing down other people's sandcastles because they are a blight upon their vision, but never build any of their own?

Ignore them. If they are not fun for you to play with, don't play with them. (Except if they come shooting at you, in which case shoot back, obviously.)

People often tend to think that to "win" a forum propaganda war, they need to get the final word or "prove" the other side wrong. This is pretty much always wrong. If you can see the other side is making an arse of themselves, in 99 percent of the cases everyone you care about will also see that, and all you can accomplish by prologued arguments with them is make yourself look like one too. Once you've said what you have to say, engaging in "no, you!" types of arguments will simply waste your time.

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

I think that, as a general rule, that's a good way to go. In this particular case, though, I find the IGS of limited value because of the structure from CCP. I suppose that the IGS can work well as a venue for propaganda wars. But I generally don't play characters that indulge in that sort of thing.

Really, I need to find more interesting IC channels and then start conversations in them.

IGS's problem is that it is a public non-realtime forum with wide readership and posting rights for every capsuleer. For this reason, it is not a suitable or realistic place for RP that is not about something that is meant for a public forum with wide readership. Namely, secrets are right out and nuances are lost, and everything you say has a PR implication and will be questioned by someone who disagrees or wants to promote their own agenda.

For myself, this is not really a bug, it's a feature. That's what a public, wide-readership forum of capsuleers would mean, given that capsuleers were the sort of people we make them when we play EVE the way we do.

So, what Rodj says, for IGS, and other places for other kind of RP.

[Casiella]

Yes, but you play a far different role than most of us do. The IGS (and similar venues) are, in a sense, a key battleground for Else. On the other hand, many characters have little to no interest in grand, sweeping propaganda or diplomacy, but prefer to find discreet contacts or be available as needed for particular things.

Hence my suggestion that we should do a better job using chat channels. I'm probably the most guilty of not taking advantage of those resources, to be honest.

[Ulphus]

On the other hand, many characters have little to no interest in grand, sweeping propaganda or diplomacy, but prefer to find discreet contacts or be available as needed for particular things.

Hence my suggestion that we should do a better job using chat channels. I'm probably the most guilty of not taking advantage of those resources, to be honest.

Umm, I figured this out about IGS about ... oh, 2 weeks after I started RPing. I also came from a line of Corps/alliances that said "unless you're a diplomat, don't post on the forums - particularly CAOD" so I assumed that most people shouldn't post on IGS unless they were in a position to speak for their corp/alliance.

My problem with chat channels (which I use extensively) is that "the Summit" is pretty much realtime IGS, and thus not any more attractive, and so is the NEA. And I've found it difficult to justify hanging out in IC channels full of reds and having relaxed conversations. (OOC Channels are lots of fun though). Pirate pubs? also not easy to justify.

"Come down to M-M and visit the broken Piano in zero-zero" someone asked me in an OOC channel, and I had to say "Why would my character do that?" I haven't found a good answer to that yet.

So I end up talking to people that I already know about issues that are primarily internal, and there is no easy way to increase the interaction outside the RPers I already know and work with IC. I haven't found a solution to that yet.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

I've been hearing this discussion since I started trolling EVE forums, and the answers haven't changed much over the years. They range from, "HEY GUYS, IF WE WORK TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!" to the less positive, "WELCOME TO HELL!". It hasn't changed much and probably won't in the foreseeable future.

[Esna Pitoojee]

On the other hand, many characters have little to no interest in grand, sweeping propaganda or diplomacy, but prefer to find discreet contacts or be available as needed for particular things.

Lately, when I see someone put something on IGS that looks like it warrants further interaction from my end (i.e., something that can actually open up new lines of RP), I've taken to sending private EVEmails to them and continuing it that way. If we end up with something that merits declaration (rarely happens; Esna prefers to keep his actions quiet) then I go back and post again.

Hence my suggestion that we should do a better job using chat channels. I'm probably the most guilty of not taking advantage of those resources, to be honest.

In my opinion, part of the ongoing problem with usage of chat channels is that the vast majority of them can be distilled down into a handful of general categories, none of which in my experience are extremely conducive to cross-faction interaction and the opening of new storylines. Hence, we are left with the IGS as the only way to get the attention of other people who you think might want to be involved in a storyline; however, it seems to me that the interaction never moves off of the IGS and back into the client-side of things in a large percentage of cases.

[Vieve]

Lately, when I see someone put something on IGS that looks like it warrants further interaction from my end (i.e., something that can actually open up new lines of RP), I've taken to sending private EVEmails to them and continuing it that way. If we end up with something that merits declaration (rarely happens; Esna prefers to keep his actions quiet) then I go back and post again.

^

I frequently do this too, minus the whole "going back and posting again" thing. 

[Ulphus]

In my opinion, part of the ongoing problem with usage of chat channels is that the vast majority of them can be distilled down into a handful of general categories, none of which in my experience are extremely conducive to cross-faction interaction and the opening of new storylines.

Interesting point, and I think I'd agree with that, but I'm not sure what sort of realistic environment would be conducive to cross-faction interaction. Most of the interaction I do with people who have different political views to me happens at work or in my sports team, and mostly we quietly ignore our differences.

If we were actually shooting at each other, what reasons would there be to socialise?

[Esna Pitoojee]

Vieve: Yeah, it's pretty damn rare. It's happened... twice, I think, in several months of my using this means of operation.

Interesting point, and I think I'd agree with that, but I'm not sure what sort of realistic environment would be conducive to cross-faction interaction. Most of the interaction I do with people who have different political views to me happens at work or in my sports team, and mostly we quietly ignore our differences.

If we were actually shooting at each other, what reasons would there be to socialise?

First, perhaps socializing wasn't quite the correct way for me to present it; I guess a better way might have been "become aware of the other person's RP lines".

Allow me to explain via example: a great number of public RP channels are bars. If, for instance, you go into a bar and manage to strike up a conversation with a character you have never met before, become relatively open with this character, and the discusssion heads into your characters' motivations for doing whatever it is you do, THEN you may discover that this new character shares motivations with yours. Congratulations, new RP partner - but there's a lot of IF in that sequence, which add up to mean it may very well not go that way.
If, however, that character goes to the IGS and posts something that automatically reveals his/her affiliations/motivations, you can now instantly respond. To someone who doesn't know that the post is merely likely to provoke... well, normal IGS-ness, it sounds like a good idea.

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

Yes, but you play a far different role than most of us do. The IGS (and similar venues) are, in a sense, a key battleground for Else.

They are. But that's not because I made Else that way, that's because she became a diplomat and that's how IGS works, so she uses it to that sort of purpose. (And because I occasionally like such things, obviously - wouldn't have agreed to do the stuff if I didn't.

On the other hand, many characters have little to no interest in grand, sweeping propaganda or diplomacy, but prefer to find discreet contacts or be available as needed for particular things.

The absolute majority of my RP is something else than grand, sweeping propaganda or public diplomacy. Even of the diplomacy, most relevant things happen out of public, and most of what I do is not diplomacy anyway, but all sorts of other things from Else's personal life and philosophical discussions to routine corporation work. You don't see those on IGS, because like you say, IGS is not the place for them.

Where do you see them? Corp and alliance chats and forums. The Summit and NEA. Some pub channels and virtual realities, when Else has a reason to visit them (I don't frequent bar channels I cannot figure out why she would, just to "get RP"). Certain restricted channels, private convos. Private and group convos simulating a physical location.

One frequent question we get from rookies in Gradient is "so, where do I go for the RP?" People seem to assume there is "the place" for RP to happen, some channel dedicated to it or so, but that's not how I prefer to do it. My RP happens where it makes sense for Else for it to happen, which is in all sorts of places. I'm afraid this sort of stuff takes months, if not years, to build up to the point where I am that I do not have to "go looking for RP", but it happens regardless of what I do in space (even if I just sit and spin ships, frankly). But it won't happen if you look for "a place for RP", instead of looking all possible places as chances for different sorts of RP.

I'm afraid this sort of RP also means that I have zero IC reason to speak a lot of the RPers in EVE (with anything else but autocannons), and that it is by random chance as much as anything else who on my own side I end ICly close with (outside of my corp, that is). That's the price of this sort of immersion.