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[Casiella]

Gallente tech is "superior" to Minmatar tech in the same way that Windows is "better" than Unix...

[Seriphyn]

I think the Minmatar's level of technology is in a different area. As Else said, Minmatar is "mechanical", so machines and engines. Whereas the Gallente would be focused in computers, drones, electronics and hi-tech stuff, which the NPC corp desc for Rep Fleet says they don't have access to, either out of choice or whatever.

I would like to see a chron set in the Minmatar Empire's "mechanical utopia".

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

I think the Minmatar's level of technology is in a different area. As Else said, Minmatar is "mechanical", so machines and engines. Whereas the Gallente would be focused in computers, drones, electronics and hi-tech stuff, which the NPC corp desc for Rep Fleet says they don't have access to, either out of choice or whatever.

I would like to see a chron set in the Minmatar Empire's "mechanical utopia".

Me too!

That said, they had a high mechanical culture about a thousand years ago or so. That is just an implication they were technologically advanced; I would not really say it indicates they are currently unable to grasp computers and drones and electronics and whatnot. I mean, these are guys who use nanotattoos etc routinely and don't think twice; it is not like they are stuck at some steampunk age.

[Casiella]

Mmmm... steampunk Minmatar...

[Seriphyn]

What is the state of Minmatar democracy?

Do they now shape it after their own tribal system, as opposed to the Federal model? I point to this (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3611&tid=4) as an example, where the factory worker says how they vote within their tribe.

"Tribal representative democracy"?

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

What is the state of Minmatar democracy?

Do they now shape it after their own tribal system, as opposed to the Federal model? I point to this (http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3611&tid=4) as an example, where the factory worker says how they vote within their tribe.

"Tribal representative democracy"?

The PF is completely terrible for figuring this out. My take is that "tribal representative democracy" is probably close to it. Even if individuals vote (as per the Gallentean example), many people probably vote their clan stance and would consider it silly to do otherwise, except under dire circumstances.

Here's some takes on PF that I agree with (why bother writing it up again when I can copy-paste (which was done with permission)):

Information on the Republic's government are horribly difficult to find. The Tribal Council existed under Midular (see, among other sources, the description of the militia rank "Spike Lieutenant", citing "Malaetu Shakor, Republic Parliament Head Speaking before the Tribal Council November 27th. YC 107)," but it was made very different and likely much stronger by Shakor (e.g. it's quoted as "Shakor's tribal council" as opposed to Midular's government in Present Pieces, http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Present_Pieces_%28Chronicle%29 )

As for Shakor's power, the position of the Sanmatar is described as "The Sanmatar was the de-facto head of state, acting as a mediator for the Council of Tribes. This position brings a costly honour for its bearer, who must renounce all ties to their former tribe in order to maintain objectivity, an act usually considered a harsh criminal punishment.", http://www.eveonline.com/mb2/news.asp?nid=2342 . Shakor describes "[...] his vision for this new government with the formation of a council of tribal heads to replace the parliament as the decision making body for the Minmatar Republic, a return to a state where a tribe has full control over its internal affairs and a reunification of all seven Minmatar tribes under one nation.", http://www.eveonline.com/mb2/news.asp?nid=2347

But these are his plans. Even though the Sanmatar is politically very strong, he is still bound by law to the Parliament - "While the Sanmatar has not formally dissolved Parliament, which would trigger elections under Republic law, he has relied on a strong government majority in Parliament to limit voting sessions to those strictly necessary to run the Republic.", http://www.eveonline.com/mb2/news.asp?nid=2794

I.e. he is de jure very limited in power, as the Sanmatar is meant to be a mediator of the decision making process and not a decider by himself, as well as bound to the laws which do not give him ultimate power (contrary to the Empire), but is de facto currently a supreme leader forging the new Republic Nation. (Of course, he is still bound by the same realpolitik that Jamyl is bound by; there are some news articles about his troubles creating the new Nation due to Starkmanir, Nefantar and Thukker issues, as an example)

The structure of the Republic/Nation is that of an assembly (Parliament/Tribal Council) as the main deciding body, with a head (Prime Minister/Sanmatar) acting as a guiding figure, but not as a monarch. I'd be very curious about the legal interplay between Parliament and Tribal Council in the Republic, and how the lack of that interplay - likely a balancing one like in many RL democracies - affects the situation. The Empire has a monarch at the top which is advised by the Council. Still, the monarch has supreme power and governs directly - the empress does not have to worry about getting an actual majority in the Council, she can overrule it if necessary, but has to pay a price for that. The Prime Minister/Sanmatar can not overrule the Parliament/Council, but has to arrange for a majority.

Beneath the council are the tribes. The tribes are fully autonomous entities which give up some of their autonomy to the Republic/Nation. There is a constant interplay between the two, with the tribes trying to retain their autonomy and the parliament/council trying to overrule them (there was a nice story arc about who would be responsible for a certain legislation, a Republic court or a tribal court). This would never be a question in the Empire; "the Empire has no business ruling on this, this is purely for House Sarum" would never come up as a legal request. The Empire has, of course, the final say in all matters. The Houses act as strong interest groups, but not as politically autonomous entities. To compare this with a RL analogy, the Tribes act as members in a federation - sub-states that have allied together - while the Houses act as interest groups, like large corporations, in a government. Tribes are part of the full government, Houses are represented within the government. In this, the Republic resembles a Federation (or even a Confederation) of semi-autonomous political groups that pass on (limited) political power to the central government, while the Empire is distinctly feudal, with a main lord passing on certain privileges to powerful vassals. I.e. the movement of power is in opposite directions.

[Seriphyn]

I always saw it that Tribal Council existed "within" the Parliament...not being separate things. Like how the American Senate exists within Congress.

Sorta nice to know that the Republic is still a democracy of sorts...the term "Republic" in which case sounds a bit out of context if it weren't. Otherwise it would be a bit confusing to new RPers that come along see that "Ah, Minmatar are a parliamentary republic" but then go "wat, confed of tribes? How is that a Republic?"

[Casiella]

As long as the leaders are elected by the people at large, it's a republic. The administrative divisions within the republic (provinces, states, tribes) are immaterial to that part of the designation.

A tribal confederation qualifies just fine as a republic if the leadership is elected within the tribe.

[Seriphyn]

I sorta like the Republic still being a democracy, that said, since the Fed/Rep suddenly didn't become alien to each other. Can apply democratic peace theory and that to Gallente/Minmatar.

[Vikarion]

If in-game mechanics are discarded in favor of real-world physics, hybrid weapons are by far superior to any other weapons system save missiles. Unfortunately for the Gallente, that would be railguns, however, not blasters (which are perhaps possible, but much more difficult to construct).

The most important factors to be considered in space combat are accuracy and the ability to directly damage an enemy craft. At the high speeds possible in space combat, standard projectiles are far too slow, while lasers, while accurate, suffer from damage attenuation when striking a target (due to vaporization of of the surface struck). Explosives, such as nukes and standard explosive compounds, are extremely inefficient, since there is no atmosphere to "contain" the blast. For shorter range attacks, the most efficient means for delivering energy sufficient to disable a target is with projectiles accelerated to a significant portion of light speed. For longer ranges, missiles are so far and away the optimal choice (due to power, tracking ability, and possible speed) that the only reason not to use them would be the invention of extremely potent anti-missile systems (which don't exist in Eve). Actually, assuming good launch abilities and guidance, missiles are best at short ranges too.

Now, that said, I would assume that the reason Minmatar rely on "older" technology is largely their insufficient infrastructure to maintain the higher-order weaponry and engine technology possessed by other empires. It's not so much the ease of repair, I would guess, as the fact that it's still quite difficult for them to fabricate and distribute parts for blasters and graviton drives. Most modern weapons rely on a long and intricate assembly process that is not only expensive, but difficult to produce without time-consuming investment and development. The fact that they have to continue the arms race in other areas also makes redevelopment/improvement of their base technologies difficult: do you switch to blasters, or develop HACs as everyone else has?

This would also explain why many Matari ships use missiles: unlike guns, missiles are self-contained...you don't have to have the facilities to service them at every station, just toss any bad ones and reload from a servicing ship or military depot. In addition the ease of use, storage, and resupply would make them enticing to a navy used to guerrilla actions.

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

If in-game mechanics are discarded in favor of real-world physics

Big if, though. Personally, I prefer my RP to match the facts I see in the game.

[Bong-cha Jones]

If in-game mechanics are discarded in favor of real-world physics

Big if, though. Personally, I prefer my RP to match the facts I see in the game.

Sticky wicket.  Are lasers terribad or really great?  Why'd projectiles get so much better?  How come ships can't do those Raven bombing-runs I've read about anymore?  I've heard blasters are due for a buff; I like my facts to fit, but some stuff that wouldn't change, does.

Generally speaking, I think the Gal/Min relationship is still fairly warm, but I expect there's a bit more distance than there was.  We're slowly approaching the type of relationship the Cal/Amarr bloc has, I think.  As far as training goes, it's established that the Minmatar Naval Academy was the worst in the cluster until very recently; it doesn't surprise me at all that they've been leaning on Gallente tacticians to do most of the training and some of the strategizing.  No disrespect meant to the Matari, but huge fleets defending static locations isn't something they would have had a ton of experience with (and the Gal would have) when the two first met and once you've established a mentor/mentee relationship, it can be hard to shake the dynamic.

[Seriphyn]

Going by the description of blasters, they are basically plasma cannons, further supported by the fact that Gallente use plasma missiles. I would imagine these would be more advanced than projectiles...

Thing is with "in-game mechanics" vs PF is that "in-game mechanics" is mostly based around capsuleer fitted ships. Machariels, for example, are awesomesauce, but in PvE, they pop just like any other ship. I would safely say that Minmatar capsule-fitted ships are the more superior, but otherwise, not so much. After all, the Gallente and Caldari are always trying to be at the bleeding edge of military hardware; if projectiles were the more superior, mechanics not included, then they would have switched to such.

[Louella Dougans]

if the minmatar buy ships and weaponry from the Gallente, then it ties the Minmatar to the Gallente for a long long time.

It acts as a cap on the growth of minmatar shipbuilding and other technologies. Restricts career opportunities. Reduces innovation.