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[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

I created the New Eden Assembly. A lot of RPers here take part. CCP didn't shut us down and claim that we copied CONCORD.

Sorry, but what? NEA has nothing that I see to do with CONCORD. CONCORD is a thingy by four nation state governments, NEA is some capsuleers having political stances and a debate club, and has never pretended to be anything but the capsuleers doing their thing. Not only is it completely not CONCORD, it is also completely not the same thing as people making alts to play Federation politics outside of the capsuleer community (regardless of whether you think that is a fun idea or not, it's just not the same).

[Seriphyn]

Soter, I'm curious to know, in this regard, what you think of the character "Anette Inhonores". She's an in-game character I use for RP, as does Ciarente for Camille Roth. Both are female children.

[Julianus Soter]

PEOPLE CAN RP POLITICIANS. I'm not arguing what roles they can or can't RP.

My Character has been arguing IN-character against their claims to legitimacy, as chairpersons of the four major political parties in the Federation Senate.

Out of character, I have been defending my character's actions from rebukes on this thread by several individuals who can't seem to read my character's posts on the IGS. Additionally, I have argued OOC that the entire RP concept is a bit of a sham, but since such commentary is forbidden on these forums, I won't repeat it.

These 'gallente politician' characters are in truth one thing, though they claim to be another. The RP crisis is about how our characters interact with them in spite or because of that.

My character has never interacted with "Anette", therefore has no opinion who that person may or may not be.

[orange]

My Character has been arguing IN-character against their claims to legitimacy, as chairpersons of the four major political parties in the Federation Senate.

And the characters in question should work In-Character to defend their claims.  (Yes, I am supporting Soter.)

The characters in question are the CEO's of CONCORD regulated, Capsuleer corporations of the same name as the Fed political parties. These Capsuleer corporations can have a mission of bringing the message of the political party they support to the larger capsuleer community and those characters can claim to head up the efforts.

Claiming that they are chairpersons for non-capsuleer entities creates problems for some characters.

If Dex Nederland were to claim tomorrow that he sits on the Lai Dai Corporation board of directors, I would have to be able to defend said claims (which I can not).   Anyone on IGS would be well within their "rights" to say bullshit and put a foot through part of my sandcastle.

[Graanvlokkie]

I'd like to comment here, but only briefly.

I created the New Eden Assembly. A lot of RPers here take part. CCP didn't shut us down and claim that we copied CONCORD ...

Not quite the same, but you would have raised eyebrows if you had said, or implied, that your organisation was part of, connected to or affiliated with CONCORD.

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

Soter, I'm curious to know, in this regard, what you think of the character "Anette Inhonores". She's an in-game character I use for RP, as does Ciarente for Camille Roth. Both are female children.

I don't understand this question at all.

I don't know Anette, but Camille claims to be Ciarente's little sister. Neither of them has ever said or done anything that makes me (IC or OOC) suspect that claim. Neither is being Ciarente's little sister something that has something to do with wider-scale anything, or would have implications on anything but the Roth family and whatever Camille tries to blow up that week. Every interaction the characters make fits what I see with my own eyes (yes, even her membership in ReAw; I've actually asked about that IC and gotten an explanation).

The Gallente politicians on IGS, however, seem to me to be, like orange above says, "the CEO's of CONCORD-regulated capsuleer corporations of the same name as the Fed political parties". In my opinion, you cannot just make up a player corp and claim that is the same thing as a corp, party, or other organization from a chronicle, without other characters having a valid reason to ask about your credentials. You can, obviously, make a character who makes a corp that supports said parties, but that's different.

Don't want them to ask? Don't do that sort of stuff on IGS.

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

I'd like to comment here, but only briefly.

I created the New Eden Assembly. A lot of RPers here take part. CCP didn't shut us down and claim that we copied CONCORD ...

Not quite the same, but you would have raised eyebrows if you had said, or implied, that your organisation was part of, connected to or affiliated with CONCORD.

This. You created an organization ran by capsuleers with some goals that fitted those of CONCORD's. You did not claim you were an NPC that is part of CONCORD. Clear difference there.

[Ken]

If Dex Nederland were to claim tomorrow that he sits on the Lai Dai Corporation board of directors, I would have to be able to defend said claims (which I can not).   Anyone on IGS would be well within their "rights" to say bullshit and put a foot through part of my sandcastle.

I agree.  Afaik, the internals of Federation party politics haven't been touched in detail by CCP since a couple chrons way back, and they don't have any real presence in the game world like Lai Dai certainly does.  I think your analogy has some merit, orange, but doesn't quite cover the nuance of this situation.

The Gallente politicians on IGS, however, seem to me to be, like orange above says, "the CEO's of CONCORD-regulated capsuleer corporations of the same name as the Fed political parties".

You did not claim you were an NPC that is part of CONCORD. Clear difference there.

To be fair these politicians don't claim to be NPCs either.  They're clearly player characters, just not capsuleers.  The inability for paying customers of CCP to create non-capsuleer characters that can interact with the official channels and game world of EVE is the root of this entire argument.

In my opinion, you cannot just make up a player corp and claim that is the same thing as a corp, party, or other organization from a chronicle, without other characters having a valid reason to ask about your credentials. You can, obviously, make a character who makes a corp that supports said parties, but that's different.

Don't want them to ask? Don't do that sort of stuff on IGS.

A lot of us, myself included, are decrying the motivations behind the (otherwise valid) criticisms, but the politicians have defended their legitimacy in an IC way on IGS.  It's not as if they've simply ignored Soter altogether.

[Seriphyn]

Okay, so OOC, not everyone is going to agree, thought the 90% do, and are engaging in enjoyable RP. That's how it's going to be.

[mod]Please do not cast aspersions on the motives of other players, thank you. |[/mod]

Come on, just leave it be and let people have their fun? =/

[Syylara/Yaansu]

Where did my characters attend school?

Please provide responses so I can know who is a god-moding player that I can just go ahead and put on block now and get out of the way.

Because it sure as hell wasn't where the game systems say, it is what I wrote in their bios.

A lot of game systems were set up for gaming purposes, the metaphorical wrappings around them are just enough facade to go along with.  That doesn't mean that new metaphorical wrappings and concepts are "wrong".

So for the last time: if you don't like it, stop participating.  It is far less invasive for others to continue doing what they enjoy while you avoid it than for you to literally stir the shit pot and do everything you can to ICly draw even more attention to the inconsistencies that you decry as such an affront.

If you don't like that my characters did not attend war academies and such, instead having classic civilian educations, then we don't play together, I wouldn't expect you to stalk me from post to post constantly making mention of such an otherwise minor nuance while entirely ignoring the quality RP available if you could muster the cognitive will to glaze over what are entirely trivial details.

[orange]

The game is a sandbox and one's RP can impact another's.

Claiming to have influence over a governmental entities make-up (the Senate) and therefore the course of the Federation impacts the play of players claiming loyalty to the Federation.  At some point, these characters might claim that their party is supporting legislation to strip Soter of his rank and that he no longer supports the Federation.

If Soter (or any player) previously recognized the legitimacy of these characters, he has now given up control of his roleplay to another player.

Just letting others have their fun has implications on an individual's roleplay.

[Ken]

At some point, these characters might claim that their party is supporting legislation to strip Soter of his rank and that he no longer supports the Federation.

If Soter (or any player) previously recognized the legitimacy of these characters, he has now given up control of his roleplay to another player.

Very interesting extrapolation.  I think it would go against the spirit of good "sportsmanship" that they've shown thus far imo, and isn't very likely, but possible.  That's a fair point.

[Vieve]

The game is a sandbox and one's RP can impact another's.

Yup.

The two characters of mine who are paying attention to these guys won't interact with them for RP reasons.  Would either pursue the aim of having them be proven as legitimate representatives of their parties?  Heck no.  That'd just attract the attention they're trying to avoid via their non-interaction.

[Syylara/Yaansu]

The game is a sandbox and one's RP can impact another's.

Claiming to have influence over a governmental entities make-up (the Senate) and therefore the course of the Federation impacts the play of players claiming loyalty to the Federation.

Claiming to have influence...impacts...others

No, it doesn't.

What has changed about your gameplay as a result of these politicians?

At some point, these characters might claim that their party is supporting legislation to strip Soter of his rank and that he no longer supports the Federation.

At some point, you might do something equally ridiculous, so I object you to RPing where I can see it.

Fair is fair.

What would happen as a result of such a post? Nothing, they are shell posting alts!

If Soter (or any player) previously recognized the legitimacy of these characters, he has now given up control of his roleplay to another player.

Your statement is true, but no more so than with any other player.  Also, again: they can't actually do anything, they are shell alts.

If they go too far, they will lose any credibility gained (its not like legitimacy is a one-time decision life-term contract).

Just letting others have their fun has implications on an individual's roleplay.

It can.

This is the fundamental issue I don't understand with the objections.  If the mere possibility of negative consequences exist, the idea is deemed unacceptable?

How many people must file objections to constitute a legitimate greivance?  Should those people be required to prove damages or simply create a doomsday scenario of poor choices and campaign on that imagery alone?

Because I've got to say, if you set the bar as low as you seem to be in this instance to all players, then nobody would ever RP at all.

[Silver Night]

The game is a sandbox and one's RP can impact another's.

Claiming to have influence over a governmental entities make-up (the Senate) and therefore the course of the Federation impacts the play of players claiming loyalty to the Federation.  At some point, these characters might claim that their party is supporting legislation to strip Soter of his rank and that he no longer supports the Federation.

If Soter (or any player) previously recognized the legitimacy of these characters, he has now given up control of his roleplay to another player.

Just letting others have their fun has implications on an individual's roleplay.

I think there is a key point here, though. You have to choose the let people into 'your' part of the sandbox, and you even choose the terms on which they are allowed in. I probably wouldn't interact with these people IC. My feeling is that they are over-reaching with some of their claims, etc. I mean that only in relation to what I would feel comfortable involving my characters in.

That doesn't mean that they are doing it wrong, and they have no control over my RP except what I choose to give them. Interaction lends legitimacy.

I think they should feel free to RP in whatever way they want. There is no requirement that anyone else RP with them if they don't like it, and if you do choose to engage them IC, you can of course do so by calling them crazy or whatever else you would like.

I think if you feel it necessary to bring in game mechanics etc, you might stop for a moment and evaluate exactly how much of a negative impact they are really having on your gameplay, and if it is really necessary to jump through those kind of hoops to try and discredit them. There were times, earlier in my RP career, when I started down that path, because it is satisfying on some level to go, 'Ah-ha! That's against the rules!' I'm careful not to do that, anymore, because I realized that it added virtually nothing to my game, potentially took something from other people's games, and that ultimately any 'game mechanics are like this so you have to do things this way' arguments I made could well one day be turned on me, when I wanted to do something interesting and slightly outside the box.

My own experience in this area was the Happy Chip thing. Someone pointed out they were not an item that was on the market IG, and it wasn't a big deal - 'they're somewhere in consumer electronics, etc'. I'm sure they or someone else could have made a bigger deal out of the fact that the entire thing was, you know, make believe OOC. Noone did, and I think a lot of fun was had by all.

I'm sure there were people who ignored it, because it wasn't their kind of thing, and that's fine. Similarly, I think when people create opportunities for others to derive enjoyment from the game it's wonderful, even if they aren't all the sorts that appeal to me or that I feel would fit in comfortably with my RP.