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[Seriphyn]

Was just thinking this through the other day...and what each empire military has as its primary doctrine, as well as the individual day-to-day culture of each one (we get a lot of insight into American military culture from movies and media, but I doubt this is universal across all four militaries). I've added a 'RL comparison' bit, which is my own purely personal opinion as to how you may compare and view each military and how it behaves. It's a very small detail, but I doubt you can just pull out the four militaries from Call of Duty Modern Warfare and use that, given the distinct developments and rise of them (especially the Amarr)...the examples I provided are designed to add flavour, especially the Amarr one.

So, some examples...

Gallente - "Minimal loss of life"
Given the extensive use of drones, though this has changed recently, I think this is the most accurate one I can think up of, considering a democracy is generally anti-war, and large casaulties are very often frowned upon. Since most people paint the Gallente as a 'Western' faction, then one would compare our current day military which very much reluctant to avoid unnecessary deaths.
RL comparisons - Mixture of US and UK militaries (ie. former always trying to be on top of the game even in the lack of a cohesive conventional military threat, but the latter always suffering from budget and political downsizing, due to the lack of a cohesive conventional military threat)

Caldari - "Total defence"
From a comment by Mens Reppola about how the Caldari Navy is not designed to extended offensive actions, but to protect the State, as well as the mention that the Citadel is "the most fortified region of the cluster". Their Navy is designed to defeat any other in the world, but in a practical application, I think this is foremost designed to protect the "small, fortress nation" that is the State, as the Caldari aren't really into 'power projection' unlike the Empire or Federation. Also some fleeting mention of Caldari worlds having the most planetary defence too or some such, and how the Caldari Army is the weakest armed force in the State, playing to the idea that they are not designed to be conquerors.
RL comparisons - Israel, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan (ie. "Small yet advanced")

Amarr - "Unquestionable victory"
Quite a fun one...piling in as many units as possible, and expecting victory through pure size, regardless of actual quality of each unit. In addition, I believe cowardice and retreat are punished by slavery or execution, ie. you MUST never retreat, and must always fight. This is somewhat interesting, and is kind of related to the Japanese Bushido thing no? Also, what does this say of individual tactics and strategy? Are the Amarr military the "least trained" (considering use of slaves as well) in modern warfare compared to the others, if all they are relying on is numbers? This is what I think makes it the most interesting, a sci-fi military centred around pure attack, and not following current modern tactics employed by RL militaries.
RL comparisons - Russia (especially WW2 era)? Probably the least similar to any current existing military

Though there's stuff for the Minmatar, I can't really think of a name for their doctrine, or any RL examples, but I'll leave that to others...feel free to question, strike down and provide alternatives for the stuff I've provided. I love flavour that defines each of the New Eden factions as their own entity so \o/

[Laurentis Thiesant]

I think the Amarrians with their numbers and slave force would probably rely on a 'throw enough at it, and it will fall'. What that means, is that it's a race against time, can they defeat the enemy before they have nothing left to give.

I think that could be reason as to why a single loss, such as Vak'Atioth effected the Amarrian military so much that it couldn't suppress a slave rebellion. Their forces were simply depleted and scattered, the all or nothing approach leaving them unable to focus on the Matari threat until it was too late.

Of course, their large population and slave force would mean they could also recover quickly as well. Making this 'art of war' at least somewhat viable.

[orange]

I am not disagreeing with the idea the the Caldari State's military is designed for "Total Defense."

For the Caldari, there are at least 8 very large and capable Security & Defense Corporations that can supplement those forces directly under the supervision/guidance of the CEP (CN and CA).  Likely most ground units come from the 8 SDCs, while the CN provides the large space assets not necessarily useful for day-to-day patrols around corporate property.  At the same time Mordu's Legion is another supplementary force and provide some power projection capability.

While the CN may be small in comparison to the FN, total State forces are likely similar in size to any of the other empires.  This being said, State structure/politics makes fielding a total coalition force very difficult, the only demonstrated instance being Caldari Prime.

(note: real life comparisons may spark political debate  )

[Esna Pitoojee]

While the Minmatar are difficult to classify as a whole due to the highly diverse fighting styles of the various tribes, subclassifications may be possible:

The Republic Fleet to me has the feel of the Japanese Navy from the 1900-1920 period; like the Republic Fleet, the Japanese navy was unable to match its neighbors in sheer number of capital ships, but made up for it with squadrons of highly mobile, highly adaptible cruiser, destroyer, and small attack craft that alllowed them to both gain tactical superiority over enemy capital ships and perform lightning raids against hostile forces (see the Battle of Tsushima).

The Thukkers are also heavily defensive-focused, like the Caldari state, but also add an element of mobility, perhaps making them more akin to a modern carrier battle group - larger, more heavily armed vessels stay near the core vessel (the carrier / the Caravan vessels) while lighter, faster units range outward, constantly probing for any hostiles.

[Louella Dougans]

Caldari Navy:

[scagga]

Interesting reading, interesting thought processes.

I would find the link for Soviet Russia - Amarr Empire a bit tenuous. The Soviet Union has developed some of the greatest tanks in the world, whilst the Amarrians are stubbornly resistant to change and innovation.

I would agree that they do not bear significant similarity to a single real world army. Their attitude towards war may hold the same degree of self-sacrifice as the Japanese, their attitude towards equipment similar to the stubborness of the old lovers of naval battleships (UK/German), their tactics of mass power may be similar to those employed by the Communists in certain battles during the Chinese civil war.... generally too weak in linkness to pin down in my opinion.

[Mithfindel]

A few notes.

The Amarr indeed have the largest amount of ships, and due to their size, the largest armed forces in general. However, even if the old doctrine was a few hundred years ago to go there, stomp everyone with the then-superior (compared to the targets) tech and enslave everyone - it has changed. Executor. Inquisitor. Arbitrator. Slicer. Omen (drones!) To name a few. So while the framework is likely still the same, there are likely several select units that differ vastly from the norm. For example, Shakor's rebels were doing whatever they pleased to the Amarr line squadrons, but once the Royal Guard was deployed against them, using tactics designed as a counter to the ones Shakor used, only Jove intervention saved Shakor. So it's both mass force and small high-tech shock troops.

For Caldari, they have a lots of battleships. Possibly their other forces are also highly emphasizing the heavy hitters, such as MTACs for ground forces in order to do maximal damage for minimum personnel - since their population is still small compared to their likely enemy, the Federation, they in the matter of fact are the faction with the true need to conserve their ranks in any large-scale conflict. I would like to claim (based on the Finnish model) that their goal actually wouldn't be exactly total defense, but rather the capability of inflicting such damage to anyone who would attack State territory that any attack to State proper would be a political suicide. (I understand that the FDF is equipped for three months of war and ultimately isn't able to handle the total defense it technically should, and instead trusts on being capable of the concept of "believable defense" or capability to defend well enough that any attack would be too costly to execute.)

For the Gallente, the drones do form a good part of the armed forces, though perhaps as a necessity. Should the Federation truly be roused into war, due to their assumedly great population and industrial capacity, they likely could send in mass fleets - but it is going to take some time for them to mobilize. Immediately post-mobilization they would be a lot like the Amarr, with a large amount of forces using mothballed equipment and the regular units using state-of-the-art tech.

And Minmatar... well, the Minmatar are developing. However, with the resources covertly shifted to the Thukker/Elder capfleets, the Republic units aren't capable of fighting a pitched battle. Expect lots of mobile warfare and using Amarr territory as their defensive depth in any kind of "real" war. For Boundless Creation ships, firepower > all, with speed coming second.

[Saede Riordan]

hmmm


Seri, I'd be interested to see you apply something like this to the pirate factions, cause they are much more interesting to me in general.

[Indahar]

On a small-scale level, I would expect Amarrian performance in battle to be extremely mixed, containing some of the best and worst fighters/equipment/tactics available. Amarrian warships haven't changed much as a whole, but there are new additions to the fleet, as well as special units designed specifically for dealing with fleets like Shakor's. The Royal Guard might not just have the most advantage against guerrilla Matari, but also the best training, benefits, and indoctrination. They would then be in complete contrast to units using/dependent on slaves, in which the slightest upset might destroy morale. And in the middle stands the overwhelming bulk of the Amarrian military, their training and equipment perhaps varying based on where they're from.

So, on a large scale, it might make sense for Amarr to use mass tactics. Mix the shaky in with the dependable, create such an impressive fleet as to inspire nearly-unbreakable morale, and commit the entire force to the command of a trustworthy commander. I think the link between this style of battle and Stalinist Russia's is quite strong: massive firepower to achieve momentum, and a focus on operational/strategic success. It would work marvelously on a similarly inflexible enemy fleet, but the Gallente, Caldari, and especially Minmatar seem more open to movement (and in the Matari's case, asymmetric warfare). I wouldn't be surprised if Amarrian fighters fling themselves at the enemy in Komsomol/Basij-style human wave attacks on the ground, either.

[lallara zhuul]

As a long time pilot in an Amarr only corp, as a pilot and as a FC, I think the one above pretty much sums it up.

Good target calling, good discipline, nobody breaking off to save their ship, is what basically made PIE able to take down ragtag Freedom Fighter fleets time and again even against greater numbers.

Time and again, because the Admiralty saw this as the only viable fleet doctrine to follow.

I think that while this exercise is very good and jogs peoples brains, I believe those that have actually flown in <insert faction> ship fleets and been successful for quite some time, would have quite of a good insight into how the fleet dogma of the faction is actually construed.

Finding links to real life nations is quite... pointless.

[Louella Dougans]

To expand on "Torpedo Los" earlier.

Missiles are cheap. Ships and trained crew are not.

The same missile body, with a change to the warhead and electronics, can perform several different roles. The warheads and electronics can also be upgraded, without requiring a new launcher/ship.

This makes missiles a good choice to give the navy capable ships with low upkeep.

[Hamish Grayson]

The Caldari Navy description states while they were the smallest in total number of hulls they have the largest battleship fleet.  This was written years before the introduction of carriers, dreads and titians to the game.  Battleships were the games capital class, even if there were mentions of a handful of titians split across each empires mentioned in the lore.

I would assume that when carriers, super-carriers, dreads and titans bumped the battleship from it's spot as the capital class that the State would have continued it's doctrine of possessing the largest capital fleet.

[Seriphyn]

The Caldari Navy description states while they were the smallest in total number of hulls they have the largest battleship fleet.  This was written years before the introduction of carriers, dreads and titians to the game.  Battleships were the games capital class, even if there were mentions of a handful of titians split across each empires mentioned in the lore.

I would assume that when carriers, super-carriers, dreads and titans bumped the battleship from it's spot as the capital class that the State would have continued it's doctrine of possessing the largest capital fleet.

Yes I wondered about this...if Caldari is smallest considerably compared to Fed and Amarr but has the most 'heavy' ships then...that must mean Fed/Amarr have disproportionately more amount of BC, Cruisers, dessies and frigs etc. etc. than Caldari...

eh, numbers are bit confusing...

Also, yeah I agree with the analogies that Mithfindel made that the Caldari Navy is designed for making sure that conquest of the State itself is near suicidal, and that any attack would be costly. And the comparison of the Federation and Amarr, with the Gallente being able to pull up numbers equalling that of the Amarr, but it would take a lot of resolve to do so, and be a very gradual process that might not actually be achievable in most scenarios. Whereas the Amarr have that size and capability straight off the bat.

Interesting thing about the Caldari megacorp security dudes...there is a mention in a Gallente storyline that has players go against the megacorp occupational forces in Placid that the "Caldari megacorp security firms aren't known for being that great"...but I'm under the impression that conflicts with where else I've read...would be interesting to know how they compare and standup to the main navies itself.

Questions if they are 'civilian' or not, or if the State makes that distinction. Eg. Federation has prisoners from Caldari Navy, and all eight megacorps (except Ishukone because of prisoner exchange)...whether that was referring to their security firms or the corporation itself is unclear, as is whether or not the Federation was being naughty and imprisoning civilians (assuming the distinction is made)

[Laerise [PIE]]

As a long time pilot in an Amarr only corp, as a pilot and as a FC, I think the one above pretty much sums it up.

Good target calling, good discipline, nobody breaking off to save their ship, is what basically made PIE able to take down ragtag Freedom Fighter fleets time and again even against greater numbers.

Time and again, because the Admiralty saw this as the only viable fleet doctrine to follow.

I think that while this exercise is very good and jogs peoples brains, I believe those that have actually flown in <insert faction> ship fleets and been successful for quite some time, would have quite of a good insight into how the fleet dogma of the faction is actually construed.

Finding links to real life nations is quite... pointless.

What Lall' says is very true.

Our amarr only fleets also benefit from amarr having the best BS line up, supported by good battlecruisers and reliable tacklers/support ships.

The biggest advantage I find we have though is pilot initiative and professionalism.

Yes, of course you follow primaries, but in the (not too unlikely) case that the fc and target callers are down someone will pick up leadership and just continue to call out targets.

P.S.: I find it funny that most people view amarrian technology (and culture) as so stagnant and backwards, especially when ingame and PF facts point to the contrary.

Yes, of course they still use lasers, they do not use ammunition, are capable of inflicting horrifying damage and can rapidly adapt firing modes.
Yes of course they still use passive armor tanks. What other method of defense is that reliable? Shields have the inherent weakness of possibly letting damage seep through - and, yes, of course shields regenerate and don't slow you down - I do think however that the old trend of passive armor tanks proves amarr right.

[Seriphyn]

Erm, you might want to remember that player behaviour does NOT represent fictional realities and facts. The Federation capsuleer militia is the most potent of the four, but does that mean the Federation is the toughest militarily, when PF explicitly states that honour belongs to the Amarrians? (Amarr faction intro on char creation)

The Gallente/Caldari are the two hi-tech navies, whereas the Amarr Navy relies on pure numbers, as per the NPC corp desc, and the fact that they have the habit of not replacing their aging, old tech. In addition, the Dam-Torsad chronicle indicates that the Amarr Empire brings stability through stagnation, and is very opposite to the constantly evolving and progressive Gallente culture.

But yeah, I'm not sure where you make that connection?