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[Saxon Hawke]

Okay, I've tried a number of different configurations for corp hangars over the years and not been satisfied with any of them.

How do you all set yours up? What do you do to safeguard against theft/misuse?

[hellgremlin]

There are two ways to attain absolute security:

- CEO has sole access to corphangars. Anyone asking for access is immediately removed from corporation. The moment a second person enters into the access equation, you've got a security hole I can merrily wiggle through (i.e. by studying both people with access long enough to pretend I'm one of them on an alt; by figuring out which is the weaker link, and co-opting him, etc.)

- Corphangars are not used for anything but basic ammo and crap. All possessions of actual value reside in private player hangars. Corporation is a de-facto empty shell, used only for communication and brand identity. (this is our method in GH-SC.)

[IzzyChan]

Word.  I don't even have offices, let alone corp hangars. xD

[Z.Sinraali]

^ That.

[joharakador]

I'd go with Station Warehouses, sure they can only be built in station, and are so large that they cannot be moved. But being able to have separate passwords in the hangar sounds like the way to go. Just name them appropriately and send out the passwords to the appropriate people.

[Saede Riordan]

There are two ways to attain absolute security:

- Corphangars are not used for anything but basic ammo and crap. All possessions of actual value reside in private player hangars. Corporation is a de-facto empty shell, used only for communication and brand identity. (this is our method in GH-SC.)

^^

also this

[Alain Colcer]

- Corphangars are not used for anything but basic ammo and crap. All possessions of actual value reside in private player hangars. Corporation is a de-facto empty shell, used only for communication and brand identity. (this is our method in GH-SC.)

I agree, thats the best way to deal with the corp tool really......basic utility stuff, nothing of value.

What i've found to be limiting though, is how one can properly channel group efforts in eve, even as CEO you can be tempted to steal everything and ditch former members, since anything at some point must pass throught the hands of a "trusted" individual.....be it profits, deliveries, BPOs, etc. There is this ever present feeling that whatever effort you do in the game to cooperate with others and build something togeher, will be swiftly taken at the right moment regardless if you are cautious.

In the extreme that you think everything through the concept of "don't invesnt what you can afford to loose", time cannot be recovered in any way, so regardless if the ISK loss was nothing major, all the time effort goes down the drain.

I learned to just "shrug-it-off" and continue, but it really baffles new players when you try to explain it to them.

[orange]

What is described by all above is not corporate security.  Hellgremlin is taking advantage of the mechanics of cooperative effort, not game mechanics.  If only the corporation CEO has access to the hangar it is largely a waste of isk and does not produce cooperative play.

Do you incur a risk?  Sure, but real life businesses incur these kinds of risk.  Penalities exist in the real world that do not in Eve.  Hellgremlin may very well be in my corporation and able to transfer items from an alt to another character.  If I assumed all new members are GHSC then the corporation can not achieve its goals.

[Casiella]

I have to disagree with you, at least partially. It IS a security method, albeit one that does so by reducing the attack surface to the absolute minimum rather than implementing strict controls to enable large swathes of functionality.

Obviously this doesn't work for all corporations, but then since corporations (and players) have different goals, one wouldn't expect a one-size-fits-all method.

FWIW, I know that Suddenly Ninjas follows the same method GH-SC does. Infiltrating them wouldn't get you very far.

[Myrhial Arkenath]

I always keep just a limited stock in the corporate hangars, rest in my personal assets. Not that a bunch of modules and some frig / cruiser hulls are worth stealing.

Another great method is not to be a complete douche (for lack of better word) so people want to fuck you over.

[Saxon Hawke]

For the ILF it basically boils down to a few issues.

First, we give away a lot of stuff to our pilots and advertise that we do as part of our recruitment spiel. Ships, equipment, ammo, etc.

Each of these used to be in their own hangar appropriately labeled and easy to find. With the exception of the ships, they were open to everyone and people could just go find what they wanted. Individually, the modules were not worth much but we built up a huge stockpile over the years. Then, about two years ago, a guy who had been in the corp about a month committed suicide in-game. His character was gone. And then we realized that all the hangars had been emptied. The total loss was probably about half a billion isk worth of T1 gear.

So we changed the configuration to minimize loss. Each division got its own hangar to deposit all of their own stuff into. This became a problem because not every division had the same stuff in its hangar and if pilots couldn't find what they needed, they had to find someone from another division to look in their hangars and see if they had it. It was such a hassle that people stopped using the hangars.

So we changed the configuration in an attempt to improve usability. Rather than dividing the hangars by division, we divided them by rank. The newest players had access to the least amount of gear and the stuff was the lowest end quality. As you moved up, you got access to more and better stuff. This turned out to be a nightmare to administrate and didn't make the usability any better.

That's where we're at now and with an influx of new pilots, I've got people asking for a hangar system revamp. Sometimes I really hate being the boss.

[Isobel Mitar]

In regard to previous replies: Co-operation inherently needs trust, and presents a risk. However, if one wants to achieve more than any single person can achieve, co-operation is required.

Business risks can be managed by balancing potential gains and risks, and by taking sensible precautions.

The things I feel are most important are
 - Having some kind of recruitment policies
 - Understanding how the access system works; it is pretty complex and not always logical
 - Good conceptual model of what corp work and equipment you want to have and how you want to organize it, so doing one thing for corp or needing something does not require giving access everywhere
 - Accesses on "need to" basis (rather than trust, seniority, nice-guy, had it before etc)
 - Making a recovery plan. Understanding what you can afford to lose.

Theft will happen, like ship losses in pvp, spies, or blue-on-blues in diplomacy.

[Merdaneth]

Create insurance.

In real life the loss of theft is countered by the consequences of getting caught and punished.

With no legal and no extra-legal means to punish an offender other than by fines, one must insurance risk of loss another way.

In its most basic form, if one puts 1 billion worth of stuff in a hangar, each person that wants access has to pay a deposit of 1 billion. Deposit is returned when person leaves corp.

If corp member wanting access doesn't trust the CEO, then what is he doing in the corp, and why would he want access?

[Myrhial Arkenath]

Create insurance.

In real life the loss of theft is countered by the consequences of getting caught and punished.

With no legal and no extra-legal means to punish an offender other than by fines, one must insurance risk of loss another way.

In its most basic form, if one puts 1 billion worth of stuff in a hangar, each person that wants access has to pay a deposit of 1 billion. Deposit is returned when person leaves corp.

If corp member wanting access doesn't trust the CEO, then what is he doing in the corp, and why would he want access?

Not a bad idea.

However, you could pretend to set up a new corporation, do recruitment, grow big enough, then boot everyone and make off with the insurance. Needs more initial investment than joining as a thief, but I am sure someone could make it work.

[Esna Pitoojee]

For a brief while, Esna was a director in a smallish corp (Order of the Golden Lobster). During this time, we nominally had a "ranking" system in which older members were assigned access to higher hangar divisions, the practicalities of living out of POSes in nullsec lead to us doing something quite different.

Each new arrival would be assigned a division 1-5 and allowed to acess just that division tab. We tried to balance the number of people using each division tab so that we could have as many people assigned a seperate tab on each POS' corporate hangar array(s) as possible. Before any member was given a tab on the CHA, they were made to understood that anything they stuck in there was subject to loss by corp theft, emergency removal due to POS deconstruction, and outright destruction of the POS. I personally reccomended each member create a small cache of safe-spotted GSCs to store their really valuable stuff.

The final two tabs were the POS fuel and director tabs. POS fuel was restricted to starbase officers, and although not as secure as the director tab, we really didn't think anyone would bother to make off with just the POS fuel if they had those kinds of roles. Directors, finally, was obviously directors-only, and required a mail from a director or known director's alt, or voice/vent acknowledgement before anyone else could get anything removed from it.