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[Ashar Kor-Azor]

The following post in this thread is all Mata's fault.

If you ERP in public, in front of my character, you may unwittingly unlock EVIL GRAELYN MODE.

Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly, and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to EVIL GRAELYN.

EVIL GRAELYN may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.

If EVIL GRAELYN begins to smoke (or toke, God help you...), get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.

Do Not Taunt EVIL GRAELYN.

Grae, I...I love you, man.

Wanna do it?


...Anyway.

The last place to gain a reputation as a skank-filled shithole and draw reactions on the magnitude of the one Seriphyn provided was La Maison, as it began to go through its death throes. The key thing to understand here was that it was only a couple of people (who'll go unnamed, but y'all can guess or remember) that screwed it up for everyone else. Including new people.

My advice to you, Nikita, is that if you want to do your thing with a bar full of (realistic) hookers, you tell everyone that's gonna go around looking for a John or getting suggestive that the minute things go past a PG rating, they damn well open a private chat and conduct negotiations there. AND ANYTHING FURTHER.

And if there's a channel where the actual sexing goes on, it be password-protected and invite-only, and the password be changed at LEAST monthly. And that all your 'girls' be characters on alt accounts. Preferably trial accounts; make it a bimonthly contest/requirement to make a new batch of hookers.

This minimizes risk for everyone involved, adds variety, and keeps the original venue from turning into a place where Ashar would go just to get a smoke and bitch about the coating of lady-spunk on all the hookahs. And how soggy all the chair-cushions were. Ugh.

As for what's wrong with prostitution in EVE, well, not a lot. Ever done anything you didn't want to do for ISK? Nice POS network there, you whore.

Plenty of perfectly respectable players and characters have tons of sex ingame, fade-to-black or not. In this respect, the difference - the ONLY difference - between Evanda Char and Revan Neferis is propriety.

The difference between late La Maison and other bars where people have initiated or carried out intimate acts, or D/s or whatever else, is propriety.

And for the love of god, sanitize your freaking roleplay venue until there's no chance it'll turn the new people away. We need them now more'n ever. Honestly, with a draw like hookers (with trial accounts, possibly even made-to-order hookers), you can stop worrying about low visitor numbers and just slap a password on the place or something. Or make a secondary channel that you mention in the primary channel's MotD, with a warning about explicit content and a password.

Now go and sin some more. With propriety.

[hellgremlin]

I think that the reason some might be defending prostitution here, is that you've all got a bit of a... glamorized view of it. Like, Pretty Woman/Confessions of a Call Girl glamorized.

Well.

This is prostitution.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1315346/X-Factor-2010-Chloe-Mafia-kicked-cocaine-snorting-revelations.html

[Senn Typhos]

Dear god, what happened to her face? ... Besides cocaine.

[Casiella]

Without knowing or saying anything about the story you linked, I'm very aware of the implications of RL prostitution and its effects on the individuals involved (directly and indirectly), and I referenced it above as something that need not impact RP unless one wishes to deal with that in their arc.

Similarly, murder, fraud, piracy, and larceny have terrible consequences. We all recognize that, even though we might love heist films. We recognize that everything that happens in EVE is a fantasy.

It's only when some folks lose sight of that last bit, in any direction, that we start to have serious issues.

[Merdaneth]

I still believe this is about the way in which it is expressed.

Everybody is fine with me being a slaver, but if I start to haunt channels while constantly torturing, whipping and beating up slaves in gory explicit scenes, then yeah, I will certainly expect me from being asked to leave many channels.

Some interactions tend to make people more comfortable than others. Some people also explicitly RP stuff in public meant to upset people OOC. Sex (even moreso than prostitution) is one of those subjects, so tread with care.

[Casiella]

Merdaneth, I'd think that a more direct comparison would be if you had a channel of your own (or for your corp) in which other Amarrians could come purchase slaves. They'd then perhaps manhandle them a bit back onto their ships and continue that RP in a private channel.

Frankly, from my time in other games, I can't deal with slavery RP in anything past the most abstract, and even then from the "good" side[1]. Freeing slaves or transporting refugees is about as close as I can get, because of my own views on the matter.

But at the same time, I don't think any less of the players who engage in that RP. I've absolutely no doubt about the fact that they're not actually endorsing RL slavery. It's just something I personally avoid.

[1]: Not intended to start a conversation in this thread about whether Amarrian slavery is evil.

[Ulphus]

Everybody is fine with me being a slaver, but if I start to haunt channels while constantly torturing, whipping and beating up slaves in gory explicit scenes, then yeah, I will certainly expect me from being asked to leave many channels.

TBH, The slavers were one of the reasons I stopped going to the Last Gate.

And the whips bother me less than the compliant slaves that think that it's right that they be a slave. Especially when the slave owner tries to tell me that there's nothing wrong with it, cos their slave is happy.

The psychological chains disturb me OOC, and I'm not allowed to shoot them in the face IC. So I avoid them.

[hellgremlin]

Without knowing or saying anything about the story you linked, I'm very aware of the implications of RL prostitution and its effects on the individuals involved (directly and indirectly), and I referenced it above as something that need not impact RP unless one wishes to deal with that in their arc.

Similarly, murder, fraud, piracy, and larceny have terrible consequences. We all recognize that, even though we might love heist films. We recognize that everything that happens in EVE is a fantasy.

It's only when some folks lose sight of that last bit, in any direction, that we start to have serious issues.

Hmm.

What I say next, may very well get me banned from these fine forums. But it is my opinion. The thing of it is, murder, fraud, piracy and larceny DO INDEED have terrible consequences. However, these four crimes, are crimes that can be thematically justified in some ways. Murder? Can be justified via revenge. Can be justified by psychopathy. Can be justified by politics. "The Amarr murdered my parents, therefore I am a Minmatar terrorist now." Fraud, piracy, larceny? "I'm a corrupt corporate official/amoral space pirate/corp thief, it's what I do to make a living." Point is, if the person has an interesting backstory, these crimes can be justified morally.

What about a hooker in the capsuleer universe? How does a capsuleer hooker justify these things? "I have access to the most advanced technology ever produced by the empires of mankind; I am effectively immortal, able to travel the galaxy, marshal fleets of countless soldiers to do my bidding... and I will use these infinite abilities and assets... to sell my gender-non-specific fuckhole (or fuckbat) to strangers."

Doesn't that strike you as odd?

I mean, sure, let's say there's "capsuleer prostitutes" that only cater to capsuleers, that cost millions of ISK per hour. but a capsuleer can earn millions of ISK per hour by merely twitching a finger (no foreplay jokes pls.) A capsuleer can pretty much employ an entire planet to be his adoring fuckslaves, if he so chooses. It's not like the neural plugs add 10% more fuckability or sexiness.

For a capsuleer... there is no justifiable reason to involve oneself with prostitution, on either the hooker (selling) or the john (buying) side of the fence. Capsuleers are gods. They are accustomed to getting things for free; the things that "little people" have to pay for. Capsuleers probably avoid the common-population areas of space stations, because if they were to "mingle with the poors," they'd have the opposite sex hurling themselves at them for a chance that their miserable, planet-bound offspring may share a few precious genes with a capsuleer. That is, when they aren't trying to bludgeon us with pipes.

Anyway, I'm real drunk, but the point I'm trying to make is... anyone capable of *roleplaying in Eve,* is a player, and thus a capsuleer. If said player decided to sell his/her slimy/shitty orifices for money... it would kind of be like Gordon Gekko from Wall Street renting out his dick for $100 to strangers, in order to add tthat trick money to his $100,000,000 coffer.

Capsuleers can pretty much have their pick of the litter. Why would they need to pay?

Hookers are an interactive hole you pay to jerk off in. Nothing less, and certainly nothing more.

[Hamish Grayson]

You are assuming the capsuleer prostitute’s motivations are ISK alone.   Maybe having others pay her for sex turns her on and she just wants her kinks too.

[Ashar Kor-Azor]

I'm real drunk, but...

To paraphrase the FAQ, this phrase is a reliable indicator that the writer is about to say something that he wants to be true.

Right now we're talking about one bar with two prostitute-capsuleers in it, one of which has been described to me by the player as socially retarded [sic].

Here is a map of human sexuality:



There's enough room at the inn for some people to make it into the capsuleer class that want to sexually service people for money. And we're still talking about one bar in the whole of the cluster. Throw out your realism card and ask for another - it won't do you any good in this little universe.

This was bound to happen, and is always bound to happen, in MMOs. Posting pictures of Katie Price won't really affect the degree to which it's bound to happen.

[Casiella]

In a RP sense (again, I want to keep this separate from the RL sense), though, capsuleer courtesans don't hurt anyone else. That might be different if the sex workers were, say, actual slaves, and I admit that I'm confused about the case in Stars End, but in general, a capsuleer hooking doesn't have the same effect on others that blowing up their ships or taking their stuff does.

[Aodha Khan]

You are assuming the capsuleer prostitute’s motivations are ISK alone.   Maybe having others pay her for sex turns her on and she just wants her kinks too.

This.

Lot's of assumptions being made here that prostitution is unwanted by those who partake. Yes, some woman may use it to help them get out of a financial mess and be therefore forced into taking that option (this doesn't mean prostitution is bad, the situation is bad) but there are others who enjoy it as a career.

Who are we to say that someone who enjoys sex cannot make a career out of it if they so choose? If it doesn't hurt anyone and both parties are happy with it then its their freedom of choice to make that decision.

[Saede Riordan]

Who are we to say that someone who enjoys sex cannot make a career out of it if they so choose? If it doesn't hurt anyone and both parties are happy with it then its their freedom of choice to make that decision.

THIS
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

[Verone]

I think it's less the fact that people have an issue with ingame prostitution, and more the fact that when your bar was opened people liked the concept and expected it to be a pretty cool place to hang out. (frankly i thought the setting and design was awesome )

Sadly, they were then slapped in the face with a PRICELIST for fifty different flavours of being banged, of all things in the MOTD, and an open RP circlejerk in the channel. A situation that I'm reliably told, some of your own corp members were pretty fucking embarrassed about, and considered leaving the corp, with good reason.

Some people simply aren't into that kind of shit, so that's why a lot of people have just walked away from the channel. People want a place to hang out, not a place where they'll be propositioned for sex every ten minutes and have to listen to stories of who's been banging who's ass the night before.

Sorry for being so direct, but that's the fact of the matter. If people want to do lesbian BDSM slave cyber, then they should keep it to private channels when their bar has been branded as a public place.

You're taking a hammering not because of the fact you're doing it, but the fact your corp members and their harem are forcing it in everyone's face who comes into the channel. That's why people aren't really taking to the channel outside the small group of people involved in all the cyber.

Again, apologies for the directness, but that seems to be the main issue from speaking to a lot of people.

[Saede Riordan]

I think it's less the fact that people have an issue with ingame prostitution, and more the fact that when your bar was opened people liked the concept and expected it to be a pretty cool place to hang out. (frankly i thought the setting and design was awesome )

Sadly, they were then slapped in the face with a PRICELIST for fifty different flavours of being banged, of all things in the MOTD, and an open RP circlejerk in the channel. A situation that I'm reliably told, some of your own corp members were pretty fucking embarrassed about, and considered leaving the corp, with good reason.

Some people simply aren't into that kind of shit, so that's why a lot of people have just walked away from the channel. People want a place to hang out, not a place where they'll be propositioned for sex every ten minutes and have to listen to stories of who's been banging who's ass the night before.

Sorry for being so direct, but that's the fact of the matter. If people want to do lesbian BDSM slave cyber, then they should keep it to private channels when their bar has been branded as a public place.

You're taking a hammering not because of the fact you're doing it, but the fact your corp members and their harem are forcing it in everyone's face who comes into the channel. That's why people aren't really taking to the channel outside the small group of people involved in all the cyber.

Again, apologies for the directness, but that seems to be the main issue from speaking to a lot of people.

No, its fine. I completely agree with you, it was waaaaaaay over the top at first. WAAAAAAAAAAY over the top. This has since been corrected, and in fact, most stuff that goes on in the bar has little to do with the stuff people take issue with. I'll point out again that its a frontier saloon style place, with all the connotations thereof, and some bad crap does happen in there occasionally, but its nowhere near as bad as it started out. The issue is that I'm getting flak for not completely shutting it down, and I'm being told that any prostitution or anything, no matter how private its kept, is wrong and bad and refuse to go there. I dunno if its just the lingering effects of the initial problems or what, but....