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[orange]

That said, I was in the Marines, so I have a pretty high tolerance for what constitutes abuse.

This may actually be part of the "problem" - what one considers to be abusive.

[Katrina Oniseki]

De Oppresso Liber.  As someone that spent the first part of her adult life liberating the oppressed, I am incapable of backing down from what I see as abuse or oppression. 

I don't think the extremist regimes of third world countries can be compared to an internet forum moderator saying mean things to you and moving your posts elsewhere.

[Desiderya]

What amazes me about this board is that even the tiniest bit of mod action generates a lot of response, blowing things massively out of proportions. No one's being censored, the rules and reasons for moderator action are visible and fairly transparent.
Personally speaking, the outrage done on principle over miniscule things annoys me far more than being (or seeing someone being) modded for what I'd see as a minor infraction or borderline case.
Seriously, all the energy could be put into actually using this forum for discussion about the game, RP or interesting topics.

[Morwen Lagann]

Your support is appreciated, Desi.

It's like that ingame too, and like I said earlier (probably in one of the other threads, I can't keep track anymore), it doesn't matter what the mods do, we're going to get bitched at consistently whether we're right or wrong according to the rules of the forum versions of the rules in people's heads.

If we don't respond to a report, which is always due to moderators deciding not to act, we get bitched at, or accused of "ignoring" reports. If we respond to a report and take action, we get bitched at or accused of bias and of being terrible, horrible people.

The stupid thing about this, as far as I'm concerned, is that the people doing the bitching are largely the same group of posters in both cases. They don't generally give an impression they care about the context, they just want to whine about moderation, so any mod action is fair game for them, no matter how big or how small it is. Then the bandwagoners show up. And then the people who support the mods who crawl out of the woodwork.

And suddenly we have a heap of steaming shit on our hands. I'm not sure "white-knighting over moderation" is a particularly appropriate way to phrase it, but it definitely seems accurate for a lot of cases we see, both ingame and out. (And while it came across that way at first, Vik, you had a legit question that appears to have been answered - in this case I'm referring to everyone else who dogpiled on.)

I've wasted several hours of my time dealing with this shit that could have been spent doing better things, like preparing for Silas' event on Sunday. So have the other mods. This is a thankless volunteer job that we throw hours of our lives into each week, and for what? People to bitch because we told someone to fix their post to meet the rules? That we threw a post in the catacombs because it clearly violated a rule we've had from day one?

People keep whining about the moderation here and ingame being heavy-handed. Some of us remember what Chatsubo was like. Some of us remember what the Summit was like when there were no moderators at all.

Yeah. Bitching for the sake of bitching about sums it up.

[Alizabeth]

For what it's worth.  I've never really have an issue with backstage modding.  *shrugs*  I should introduce you all to deadtear sometimes.

[Lyn Farel]

As a mod team, you can just ban them and be done with it if they are pissing you off that much

See, this is my view. However, Morwen and Silver are too nice, and they think that permabans should be for cause and follow warnings and a pattern of behavior and shit.

Maybe they'd let me apply my moderation style to people who volunteered for it?

How many warnings do they need ?

I understand that you can not ban someone at the first mistake, and I believe that you can't really ban someone over mistakes he was not even aware of or coming from different perspectives on things, but on clear rules violations, repeatedly...

It's not a cultural thing, no. I was raised (possibly improperly) to respect authority without much question. If a moderator is abusive, I do my best to avoid that moderator completely, sometimes by avoiding the venue they moderate altogether.

To put that into context, if I found Morwen to be treating me unfairly or abusively, I would stop using Backstage. Morwen can attest to my habit of leaving channels that I have a problem with ingame. I'd do the same here.

This is how I handle authority that's oppressing me, by hiding under the couch. I'm not saying it's the right way to do things, but it's something that I've done for many years, and so I find it strange and aberrant that people so boldly and loudly complain and even attack Morwen for the way he moderates. I understand why, but I just cannot relate to it, because that isn't the way my mind works.

I could do the same since most of this does not even concern me the slighest, and my issues are really secondary to the global approval I have always had on backstage (at the contrary of OOC/Summit).

- First, I have that strong sense of getting really annoyed when rules are not applied to the ones issuing them. That is, however, not important and I can get over it.

- Second, backstage is the only OOC out of game medium where RPers can gather and speak and the general level of the community is good and mature, which is already something. If I do as you say and leave because I have an issue with a mod, where do I go ? Same case for OOC/Summit. Actually I already did that 6 months ago. It made me leave the game since I was cut off everything.

Seriously, all the energy could be put into actually using this forum for discussion about the game, RP or interesting topics.

One doesn't prevent the other.

Anyway, you generally start to inquire about a minor thing that you still feel is important, then people disagree, then it gets blown out of proportion... All sides are responsible eventually, even if that was not what was expected in the first place.

[Vikarion]

And suddenly we have a heap of steaming shit on our hands. I'm not sure "white-knighting over moderation" is a particularly appropriate way to phrase it, but it definitely seems accurate for a lot of cases we see, both ingame and out. (And while it came across that way at first, Vik, you had a legit question that appears to have been answered - in this case I'm referring to everyone else who dogpiled on.)

Yeah, and I can come off much more aggressively than I mean to. In real life I tend to be fairly blunt, and I have to moderate my actual words in situations where a mild voice or a bit of dry tone won't come across.

[Katrina Oniseki]

It's not a cultural thing, no. I was raised (possibly improperly) to respect authority without much question. If a moderator is abusive, I do my best to avoid that moderator completely, sometimes by avoiding the venue they moderate altogether.

To put that into context, if I found Morwen to be treating me unfairly or abusively, I would stop using Backstage. Morwen can attest to my habit of leaving channels that I have a problem with ingame. I'd do the same here.

This is how I handle authority that's oppressing me, by hiding under the couch. I'm not saying it's the right way to do things, but it's something that I've done for many years, and so I find it strange and aberrant that people so boldly and loudly complain and even attack Morwen for the way he moderates. I understand why, but I just cannot relate to it, because that isn't the way my mind works.

I could do the same since most of this does not even concern me the slighest, and my issues are really secondary to the global approval I have always had on backstage (at the contrary of OOC/Summit).

- First, I have that strong sense of getting really annoyed when rules are not applied to the ones issuing them. That is, however, not important and I can get over it.

- Second, backstage is the only OOC out of game medium where RPers can gather and speak and the general level of the community is good and mature, which is already something. If I do as you say and leave because I have an issue with a mod, where do I go ? Same case for OOC/Summit. Actually I already did that 6 months ago. It made me leave the game since I was cut off everything.

I was explaining my habits, not suggesting you follow them.