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[Casiella]

Why must everything be measured?

QFE.

That is, from a purely objective point of view, having my children doesn't make much sense. Playing EVE in the first place doesn't make much sense. I should have studied something other than I did, probably chosen a different spouse, etc.

But I did those things, not because of 'measurable progress', but because I wanted to do them. Having children is a financially losing proposition no matter how you look at it, but it's a good thing our species doesn't value everything that way or we'd be in bad shape.

I suggest that this purely Objectivist view has serious flaws, and despite the seductive nature of a Randian approach, it doesn't actually work in all cases. We're actually more like Kirk than we are Spock...

[scagga]

Thought-provoking stuff. I'll resume the discourse tomorrow, got work to do for now 

[Silver Night]

[admin]Just moved to a more appropriate board.[/admin]

[Lillith Blackheart]

Oh hey. I didn't see this moved.

Good call.

[Ashar Kor-Azor]

Yeah, so.

First off, all this comes from Scagga from my perspective. Scags once posted a defense of roleplayan that essentially boiled down to 'what we'll have in EVE after the game ends is stories - other players are less likely to have the kind of stories we will, with their myriad qualities.'

Second, the currency we're trading in here is time. The value of time is measured simply - one asks themselves how much they enjoyed an activity. It is as simple as that; it need not be utterly stringent or universal. It WILL be arbitrary.

Third, playstyles are playstyles. This is a product we're talking about - you are consuming entertainment content, some of which is created by fellow users. The development team has created a smörgåsbord of hooks to keep you in, whether happily or irritably, whether steadily or in spurts. They have a goal related to makin' bucks. It may not be the only goal, but it is one. This cheapens the (otherwise flagging) wisdom in attempting to get explicit values laid out for this or that action beating out another.

Scagga just doesn't like things that make other people unhappy, I think. He's a good guy for that. But there are only so many non-competitive avenues one can travel in getting entertainment out of our shared medium. And after a while, all of it's just blood squeezed from stones, really. Regardless of variety.

Tenpenny drama in the flea market.

And once you admit you're down with that, oh, the exciting new bottoms you'll plumb!

[Lillith Blackheart]

Scagga just doesn't like things that make other people unhappy, I think. He's a good guy for that.

Which is noble, however if you undercut someone on the market by a penny to get the sale they don't and make a big profit you're making them unhappy. Perhaps not as visibly so as when you blow their brand new faction-fitted T2 ship out of the sky, but you're making them unhappy nonetheless.

This is a game that everything -- even the carebearest of carebear PvE stuff -- is PvP in some manner. You want to mine? You're competing for roids. You want to do industry? You're competing for market share. You want to run missions? You're competing for market share of the drops/salvage. You want to rat? You're competing for spawns.

This is a game where no matter what you do, you're going to make someone else unhappy. You really can't do much about it, that's the nature of the game. It's a highly competitive game.

Some of us embrace that competition to a greater degree than others, but as such that doesn't make what we do "wrong" just because it ruins someone's day. From our perspective it's no different than being a track runner (except way less exertion of course ) or playing a game of chess.

Someone has to lose.