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Author Topic: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?  (Read 4694 times)

Anabella Rella

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #30 on: 11 Sep 2013, 14:04 »

I wasn't referring to you Kat or anyone else here. That was about the Eve GD forum.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #31 on: 11 Sep 2013, 15:36 »

The issue people were getting upset about is that the language was loose enough that it could be interpreted to mean "you cannot falsely claim to be a representative of any person/group/etc for scamming purposes, period." This would cover not only the individual impersonation issues mentioned before (i.e., the Chribba imposters) but anyone falsely saying "hey, I'm a diplomat for X group, pay me for standings", or "hey, I'm the FC of the fleet that just scrambled your very valuable ship. Pay us to let you go", etc.

CCP at the moment seems to be saying this is very specifically aimed at people directly impersonating other figures, not just lieing about a being in a position of authority.

EDIT: GM Karidor has appeared with another explanation, which is apparently "the final word" in the matter. It reinforces that they were aiming this at people impersonating very specific persons to scam; claims to more generic positions such as "diplomat", "sov-seller", or "supercap seller" will remain within the rules.
« Last Edit: 11 Sep 2013, 18:03 by Esna Pitoojee »
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Lithium Flower

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #32 on: 12 Sep 2013, 05:10 »

As far as I understand, loyalist representative should represent their loyalty to NPC player/corporation/entity, but under no circumstances should represent this entity themselves.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #33 on: 12 Sep 2013, 20:31 »

...and CCP swings straight back into 'dafuq-are-you-smoking' territory with the announcement that yes, you can now be banned for stating someone is your alt as part of a scam...

...even if they are actually your alt.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Louella Dougans

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #34 on: 12 Sep 2013, 22:44 »

...and CCP swings straight back into 'dafuq-are-you-smoking' territory with the announcement that yes, you can now be banned for stating someone is your alt as part of a scam...

...even if they are actually your alt.

WAT
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Katrina Oniseki

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #35 on: 12 Sep 2013, 22:48 »

...and CCP swings straight back into 'dafuq-are-you-smoking' territory with the announcement that yes, you can now be banned for stating someone is your alt as part of a scam...

...even if they are actually your alt.

WAT

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3609909#post3609909

Arista Shahni

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #36 on: 13 Sep 2013, 00:20 »

So we can't represent ourseves?
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Rok-Yuni

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #37 on: 14 Sep 2013, 03:25 »

in the example given by Abdiel Kavash there, I can totally understand why, from a GM's perspective, they would treat both of those examples in exactly the same manner.

it comes down to the 'for malicious purposes' section of the banning...

though that particular one may well have been petitionable.
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Iwan Terpalen

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #38 on: 14 Sep 2013, 04:15 »

Not at all convinced by the "it's always been like this" bullshit, at all. Smells like carebear stink, and doubling down on dumb decisions.
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Myyona

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #39 on: 14 Sep 2013, 05:05 »

Looks to me, that this "change" is about clarifying a rule and let people know their rights. Nothing really "new".
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #40 on: 14 Sep 2013, 19:03 »

The issue people are having is not that the rules/clarifications are a huge issue in and of themselves. If we were to take everything they've said at face value, most bits of this I would not have an issue with (although I still think the idea that you can be smacked for telling the truth about an alt as part of scam is dumb).

The problem is that EVE's GMs have a well-earned reputation for playing fast and loose with the rules when it comes to answering certain kinds of petitions. Peoples' concern is that okay, this is supposed to be just for people impersonating other specific people - but the language is so vague and unclear that a GM could now point to these rules when issuing a ruling that is out-of-line with their stated intent. And the only thing more difficult in getting an initial favorable response from a GM is getting a GM to admit they were wrong.



I'll say this: Having spoken to an EVE GM before, I appreciate the shit they get when they deal with 500,000 angry spaceship nerds on a daily basis. I understand why they want to have quotable rules - so that if a GM has to make a (legitimate) decision regarding impersonation, they can point to something and head off the cycle of appeals based on whether the GM was wrong or not. Unfortunately, EVE's GMs also have a reputation for doing some highly illogical things, and people are not going to forget that.
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Desiderya

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Re: ToS Update - No More Loyalist Reps?
« Reply #41 on: 15 Sep 2013, 06:12 »

in the example given by Abdiel Kavash there, I can totally understand why, from a GM's perspective, they would treat both of those examples in exactly the same manner.

it comes down to the 'for malicious purposes' section of the banning...

though that particular one may well have been petitionable.

It is also an extremely everyday kind of scenario that'll pop up at least 15 times a day on TQ. Scamming someone with an alt on the basis of your own business/reputation, while devious, might be something not a lot of people are actually doing, simply from the lack of a horde of 'legitimate' businesses worth scamming. :>
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