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[Mizhara]

A Summit excluding the Sansha bandwagon would have me joining... Or an Empire centric Summit or something like that. I'm just a little leery about joining a channel which has a 99% chance of containing the kind of people my character would consider mortal enemies. Not conducive to non-RAEG RP.

[Ghost Hunter]

I think one reason the Loyalists stay out of the Summit, is given their internal dialogue and RP, there are very few realistic reason why they would want to interact and converse with people that their characters would see as criminals and undesirables. It breaks their immersion and their story arc.

I try to take Gottii out to the occasional pirate bar, just because I like interacting with the greater EVE RP community and Ive got a lot of non-EM friends I like to RP with. 

But, to do so, Ive had to work in some (rather reaching) RP reasons why a guy who spends his life supporting a Faction and fighting criminals and pirates would want to converse and drink with the very same people he views as enemies.

 Its not really about being extroverted or introverted, I think, its just differing brands of RP and storylines. 

Well, why not use the block function?

In public fluid router locations like The Summit, if entities that you consider your character would have no reason to talk to shows up you can simply block them. Out of sight, out of mind.

Not to say you should but I'm interested in your thoughts on that approach.

[Ulphus]

Well, why not use the block function?

You mean, go to a channel full of people you don't want to talk with, and block most of them?

And blocking isn't a good solution in my view.

I've only got one person blocked at the moment, and the reason I've unblocked others is that conversations can get really surreal when someone is replying to comments you can't see interspersed amongst the ones you can.

[Julianus Soter]

Wait, you're recommending to block people so you can use a 'public discussion' channel without constant propaganda/spam?

What?

[Lillith Blackheart]

A Summit excluding the Sansha bandwagon would have me joining...

You over-estimate the numbers there. I'd be of the mindset that for a "bandwagon" there needs to be more than 4-6 people involved.

what is "the summit" for?

Key question. Right there. No one ever wants to answer it. They want to dance around it and complain about factor "x" being the cause why The Summit has issues, and no matter how many times people point out that no one has ever given a solid answer to this question is the core problem with the Summit and that until it is resolved there will continue to be problems, no one answers it.

So.

What's it for?

[Silver Night]

A Summit excluding the Sansha bandwagon would have me joining...

You over-estimate the numbers there. I'd be of the mindset that for a "bandwagon" there needs to be more than 4-6 people involved.

what is "the summit" for?

Key question. Right there. No one ever wants to answer it. They want to dance around it and complain about factor "x" being the cause why The Summit has issues, and no matter how many times people point out that no one has ever given a solid answer to this question is the core problem with the Summit and that until it is resolved there will continue to be problems, no one answers it.

So.

What's it for?

As far as I'm concerned, the Summit is for 'general RP' and discussion. I'm not sure how to be clearer. It's also a tool for people's characters to meet IC, even if those connections are often extended further elsewhere. A sort of central place for people from different parts of the community, or who are new to it, to run into people they might be interested in interacting with.

This is probably a discussion for the other thread, if you want to revive it. This thread is about a potential alternative to the Summit, rather than about The Summit.

[Benjamin Shepherd]

Check the forums tomorrow afternoon (evening for Europeans) for something I've been working on about this.

[Gottii]

I think one reason the Loyalists stay out of the Summit, is given their internal dialogue and RP, there are very few realistic reason why they would want to interact and converse with people that their characters would see as criminals and undesirables. It breaks their immersion and their story arc.

I try to take Gottii out to the occasional pirate bar, just because I like interacting with the greater EVE RP community and Ive got a lot of non-EM friends I like to RP with. 

But, to do so, Ive had to work in some (rather reaching) RP reasons why a guy who spends his life supporting a Faction and fighting criminals and pirates would want to converse and drink with the very same people he views as enemies.

 Its not really about being extroverted or introverted, I think, its just differing brands of RP and storylines. 

Well, why not use the block function?

In public fluid router locations like The Summit, if entities that you consider your character would have no reason to talk to shows up you can simply block them. Out of sight, out of mind.

Not to say you should but I'm interested in your thoughts on that approach.

Well, again, Im not exactly sure how thats not immersion breaking either.  They show up at the Summit..and...refuse to see people?  Literally as in unable to see them, mental block.  Im not sure how to roleplay that in any meaningful way.   I think the block function is there for trolls and isk spammers, not as an RP tool.

And it the end of the day its a moot point, the end result is the same.  Its people not talking for RP reasons.  Its just the Summit would be even more bizarre, as there would be multiple conversations of people who cant or wont communicate with each other.  That doesnt seem any better than two separate channels, actually rather worse.

[Ghost Hunter]

I think one reason the Loyalists stay out of the Summit, is given their internal dialogue and RP, there are very few realistic reason why they would want to interact and converse with people that their characters would see as criminals and undesirables. It breaks their immersion and their story arc.

I try to take Gottii out to the occasional pirate bar, just because I like interacting with the greater EVE RP community and Ive got a lot of non-EM friends I like to RP with. 

But, to do so, Ive had to work in some (rather reaching) RP reasons why a guy who spends his life supporting a Faction and fighting criminals and pirates would want to converse and drink with the very same people he views as enemies.

 Its not really about being extroverted or introverted, I think, its just differing brands of RP and storylines. 

Well, why not use the block function?

In public fluid router locations like The Summit, if entities that you consider your character would have no reason to talk to shows up you can simply block them. Out of sight, out of mind.

Not to say you should but I'm interested in your thoughts on that approach.

Well, again, Im not exactly sure how thats not immersion breaking either.  They show up at the Summit..and...refuse to see people?  Literally as in unable to see them, mental block.  Im not sure how to roleplay that in any meaningful way.   I think the block function is there for trolls and isk spammers, not as an RP tool.

And it the end of the day its a moot point, the end result is the same.  Its people not talking for RP reasons.  Its just the Summit would be even more bizarre, as there would be multiple conversations of people who cant or wont communicate with each other.  That doesnt seem any better than two separate channels, actually rather worse.

I've given thought to that idea and there is no real benefit to it, so I agree with you.

Thought was also given to your original point, which I found pretty much sound. I dislike it, but I'm hard pressed to think of any real sensible explanation against it.

Righto, carry on then.

[Graelyn]

I want a Summit with all the interesting people removed!

[Lillith Blackheart]

I want a Summit with all the interesting people removed!

Oh come now, it's fun to debate with people who agree with you. . .

[Ulphus]

what is "the summit" for?

As far as I'm concerned, the Summit is for 'general RP' and discussion. I'm not sure how to be clearer. It's also a tool for people's characters to meet IC, even if those connections are often extended further elsewhere. A sort of central place for people from different parts of the community, or who are new to it, to run into people they might be interested in interacting with.

It has never worked for me that way. Back when I was actually hanging around on it as a new eve RPer, it was so bad (confusing, unwelcoming, full of people I couldn't figure out why my character would want to talk to, and so full of noise that I had difficulty keeping up without keeping the window open full time, which it didn't repay) that I dropped it fairly quickly. And now many people I know avoid it. It actually seems to me that the OOC channel accomplished your stated goal much more than the summit did, for me anyway.

It feels a little like you're trying to have an IC channel for explicitly OOC reasons? I'm still confused about why my character would want to talk to most of the people in the summit...

Doesn't it require a certain amount of critical mass for this to work? Or like the plethora of OOC channels, there ends up being lots of different IC general channels, which means there really isn't a single go-to place to meet people.

[Silver Night]

Well, again, we should probably go to the other thread, for this, but basically I'm in a 'caretaker' position with regards to The Summit. I'm hesitant to make major changes, and I'm not sure that there are major changes I could make without altering the channels basic idea. It's perfectly valid that people might not want to interact with other people, but that is down to your character, not the channel.

I know that it has served the purpose that I stated, for me, and for other people. Obviously no one channel is going to serve the needs of everyone perfectly, and I think that all can be done really is make it as open as possible.

I think it doesn't seem unreasonable that, IC, there might be a com channel open to the podder community at large. I don't think that OOC reasons (like encouraging people to talk to people they might not otherwise talk to) invalidate the plausibility of the channel IC. I also think it is up to individual players whether they prefer to start their interactions IC or OOC, and the two channels facilitate either inclination.

I'm not sure what the solution would be if people find the channel both inactive and overactive or noisy. I know that trying to hop in, as a new RPer, to participate in ongoing RP debates or what have you might be intimidating, but the Summit is nothing if not welcoming to lurkers .

If you have a lot of people talking, it is gonna be an issue keeping up, that's just how chat channels work sometimes. Likewise being confusing for a new person (as partially addressed above). The unhelpful part is something that probably can be - and should be - dealt with, to some degree, and I hope that I've started doing that.

[Boma Airaken]

[mod]Modded for personal attack and insult[/mod]

[Wanoah]

I tended to see The Summit as the default IC channel and rather like an in-game counterpart to the IGS. The problem with this idea is that both seemed to be used as default IC fora while having a more specific stated aim, and this can (and has) lead to some confusion and conflict.

Both venues have been somewhat problematic for as long as I can remember. Still, both will only ever be as good as people want to make them.

ETA:

Once upon a time, people moaned and moaned about how crappy the IGS was. They complained that it was repetitive, devoid of interesting stuff, and the moderation regime was too restrictive to allow a reasonable level of expression. Some people decided to set up an alternative venue, but it fell flat on its face. It seemed that there were enough people complaining, but not enough people actually willing to do anything else.

Similarly, there was much complaining about the levels of drama on The Chatsubo, but little real desire to actually do anything about it. Once things had improved, the loudest complaints generally came from the people that only occasionally visited to post in the drama threads. I tended to think of them as drive-by dramawhores. No names, ofc, but I remember who you were.

Still, I have a feeling that things are a bit different now. Eve has grown, and it looks like the RP community has grown with it. The existence of this very forum seems to suggest that it is now much more likely that you can get the necessary critical mass to launch an alternative and for it to succeed.