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[Saede Riordan]

I know where I'm going to have issues. I've talked to a good friend of mine, and he's basically told me what my real problems with running a corp, and my jaw dropped, because he spelled it out perfectly.

The issue is thus, it has nothing to do with me not having a lot of charisma, it has nothing to do with my submissiveness, which, and I've realized, really doesn't matter. He's heard me FC, he's heard me boss people around, and yes, he agrees I'm submissive, but no, he doesn't think that's the issue, I just THINK that's the issue. What he says is the real issue with running a corp, and expecting it to be a decent corp, is that I cannot, CANNOT train utter new players and carebears how to pvp, and expect them to get it. I need REALLY REALLY need, a core of at least 15 decent pvpers before I can expect to start bringing in new players.
The reason for this is:

1. There is no physical way to cover all the bases in eve, there is no way I, as one person, can make a carebear or a noob into a pvper, or even a carebearish 0.0 dweller. There are things like 'stay aligned' and 'watch d-scan' that I just will assume people get and I need to not assume that. I need at least enough people there who know what their doing to cover all the bases.

2. I cannot on my own keep the interest of other players unless there are at a bare minimum, 2-5 other players who have the same vested interest in the corp as me. Without that, I'll do something like go camping for a weekend and come back to have half my corp gone.

So this is a bit of a discussion topic and a bit of plea for help. I need 10-15 good pvpers, people who will be able to help me with noobs, and cover all my bases, so that they can learn to pvp without training wheels and at least 5 of whom have a vested interest in my corporation, and will be able to stop it from falling apart the moment I step away from the computer.

He said if I can get those two things, my corp will get off the ground. If I can't get those two things, I can spend 6 months taking noobs and bashing them over the head with pvp and the second I step away from the computer, they will scatter and the corp will fall apart and I will never see any of them again.

So basically, there are a lot of Angel folks who are waiting to see if Risen Angels will get off the ground, and this is a plea. If you want to see it get off the ground, then please, please, help make that happen. Because I can't do it on my own, and if you all sit around waiting for me to succeed, I'm never going to.

basically....help!

[Casiella]

I mean this with all respect and friendliness, and I'm just trying to give you a chance to give your spiel:

Why should folks support your particular corp over others? Particularly over other Angel-aligned PVP-ish corps, though in reality you're competing with all RP/PVP corps to a degree.

[Arvo Katsuya]

Those large RP-based corps you see out there... take years of hard work for them get to where they are. It's a much smaller pool of a community you draw from as opposed to the ones who have little interest in roleplaying... plus, its even harder as you have to sell the fact that your organization is one that will mesh with their character's background.

Making all these threads about your aspirations to making an Angel Cartel alliance are not going to help you. They may do the opposite. I'd suggest writing up a good ad or two to place, and perhaps approaching people in-person to see if they'll bite. More time consuming, but your chances are better than a pre-generated evemail invitation to hand out to them.

...or, join an already existing Angel affiliated corp, and do your best to support them. Everyone can't be a leader, and then expect teamwork. I, personally would rather be a follower and support as an advisory role than to be a leader. I know how frustrated I get when I'm placed into the role, and it does not fit me.

[Ember Vykos]

1. Both Casi and Arvo have very good points.

2. I think youre selling newbs a bit short. When I was new I did corp hop a bit, but most of that was due to issues with not getting to know the people in the corp before I joined and then realizing I really didnt like them as a person. Once I found a group that I liked and got along with I was very loyal to the corp, and it was a really difficult decision to leave them when I decided to start RPing in EVE and join an RP corp.

3. I have trained both carebears and newbs to be competent PVPers. It is something that can be done. Its hard to do at times(especially in a chat window), but one thing I discovered in doing this is that taking the time to teach them in a personal or class type way does instil a bit of loyalty in them as well. In some of the corps Ive been in I helped train and took time to do personal instruction/extra help when needed and some of my "students" are still really great friends, and most are still in the same corp we were in when I taught them. It takes large doses of patience on your part, but it does have its benefits as well. If they have an interest in PVP and you take the time to show them the ropes most of them will stay with you for at least a while. If they were initially drawn to you by recruitment ads or conversation and like what you/your corp stand for and are interested in standing for the same things then you will get some retention out of the deal.


My advice: Set some short term goals for your corp, get a clear idea of where you and your corp are gonna go, and place an advert here or on the EVE forums or both.

[Dex_Kivuli]

This is approaching a general corp formation thread.

I'll throw in my 2 cents. First off, my corp history has spread across 3 corporations: Graduate School of Applied Knowledge (GSAK), Xerxes Security (XSC), and currently Lai Dai Infinity Systems (LDIS).

I created and ran GSAK, which was basically a corp for noobs, by noobs. We had about 50 members at our peak. A few of us RP'd, but that was mostly me. I think it was pretty successful, and the key to that was two fold: establish a known presence by being generous. In SAK, I was known, and people referred to me. I also was known to give people ISK for skillbooks and loans and such. Sure, some people don't pay back, but as a general rule, the generosity is remembered. This builds your reputation and helps you accrue loyal members by choice. So, in your context, be as helpful and forgiving to new people in channels like the summit. Bring them in to RP, it goes a long way and costs you little.
Key lesson: establish a reputation through generosity

I basically joined XSC because I liked the CEO. He had a good presence in the Caldari channels, and he and I had a few great conversations. Plus, he and I shared a time zone. One of the reasons I went to his corp was because he specifically invited me, with a defined role. The role wasn't huge, but it was well defined and something I could really relate to (Specifically, we were going in to FW in small groups to strike isolated bands of Gall)
Key lesson: draw people in by talking to them personally, and try and invent a defined role

I recently joined LDIS after burning out from running GSAK. This was the first corp that I joined for purely RP reasons, and I specifically wanted to be a follower. I joined because of the established roster of Caldari RPers who I knew well from chat channels (People like Nederland, Grayson, Vikarion, Fauconier [sorry about the spelling  ]). They all had established RP lines, and I knew what they stood for. I wanted a piece of that.
Key lesson: have an established position in the RP channels as an advocate for your group

In my opinion, all of this points to one thing: work on your reputation as an individual. Build yourself up. All the people who've had followers in the past, love them or loathe them, have had a good presence and a clear position: Constantine, Revan, Seri, Saxon, Numerous Amarrians, Nederland.

Just my 2 ISK.

[Myrhial Arkenath]

What the people above me have said, basically. Also, that is why I stressed the importance of a niche. You can't just do everything all at once. You start with one thing, do that really well, then branch out. Doing several things at once is a recipe for disaster if you do it all half-assed. Just like multitasking is nothing but an illusion, the human mind is made to single task. What's that got to do with running a corp? Well, if you offer people a lot of things but they are all a bit weak then they chances are big they will give up, with a few exceptions maybe picking up one thing and fleshing it out for you.

[Saede Riordan]

I mean this with all respect and friendliness, and I'm just trying to give you a chance to give your spiel:

Why should folks support your particular corp over others? Particularly over other Angel-aligned PVP-ish corps, though in reality you're competing with all RP/PVP corps to a degree.

That's not really got anything to do with it Cassie. Basically, I've got a bunch of old cartel pilots, most of whom are in VETO right now, who have told me they are waiting to see my corp succeed before they join. This is specifically aimed at those people.

2. I think youre selling newbs a bit short. When I was new I did corp hop a bit, but most of that was due to issues with not getting to know the people in the corp before I joined and then realizing I really didnt like them as a person. Once I found a group that I liked and got along with I was very loyal to the corp, and it was a really difficult decision to leave them when I decided to start RPing in EVE and join an RP corp.

I did the same thing, but having played the corp game before, I think my friend's assessment on things is right you need a decently sized group of competent pilots in order to even start instilling in people that sense of loyalty. I can't cover all the bases, I can't teach them everything they need to know. It just won't happen.  

3. I have trained both carebears and newbs to be competent PVPers. It is something that can be done. Its hard to do at times(especially in a chat window), but one thing I discovered in doing this is that taking the time to teach them in a personal or class type way does instil a bit of loyalty in them as well. In some of the corps Ive been in I helped train and took time to do personal instruction/extra help when needed and some of my "students" are still really great friends, and most are still in the same corp we were in when I taught them. It takes large doses of patience on your part, but it does have its benefits as well. If they have an interest in PVP and you take the time to show them the ropes most of them will stay with you for at least a while. If they were initially drawn to you by recruitment ads or conversation and like what you/your corp stand for and are interested in standing for the same things then you will get some retention out of the deal.

The problem with doing it this way is that it runs into the second thing I mentioned in the first post. If you take someone and hold their hand and walk them through everything. It builds loyalty, yes, but it doesn't make them competent and as soon as you take the training wheels off, the stop doing anything.
Personally trying to take care of every individual will be taxing to you to the point of insanity, and in the end, all it will do is make them needy, make them so that depend on you for everything, and as soon as you turn your back and let them do their own thing, the corp falls apart. This has happened to my friends corps, I've seen it happen.

My advice: Set some short term goals for your corp, get a clear idea of where you and your corp are gonna go, and place an advert here or on the EVE forums or both.

That's sort of what I'm doing. I'm not looking at huge goals here, I've shelved the alliance idea except for continuing to be OCD about what I'll end up calling it. This is just to get the corp off the ground.
And I believe my friend. I honestly don't think I can train noobs into good pvpers without some other, half decent pilots to help me.
I have some friends who are trying, but they aren't RPers, and they aren't babysitters. They have things they want to do, and their own corp to run, and they don't have time to help me get my corp running.  

Myh: I know, I want to be a pvp corp. That's my current goal. Get a pvp corp, of decent players. That's all I'm currently setting out to do.

Dex: I'm not going to respond to that because I don't need to, I absolutely agree with you. I need to establish myself within the community more. Which is something I'm doing, but its not instant, and building the corp is something I'm doing concurrently, and both depend on each other.

[Casiella]

I mean this with all respect and friendliness, and I'm just trying to give you a chance to give your spiel:

Why should folks support your particular corp over others? Particularly over other Angel-aligned PVP-ish corps, though in reality you're competing with all RP/PVP corps to a degree.

That's not really got anything to do with it Cassie. Basically, I've got a bunch of old cartel pilots, most of whom are in VETO right now, who have told me they are waiting to see my corp succeed before they join. This is specifically aimed at those people.

I think you've misunderstood. If you don't want to tell the rest of us what makes Risen Angels special -- if you don't have an elevator pitch -- then training PVPers will be the least of your problems.

Good luck with your corp, though.

[IzzyChan]

I'd love to have some fresh blood noobs in my corp, it's so hard to come by new recruits these days.

Oldbie PvPers and bitter vets are extremely hard to keep interested in a corp unless you wait on them hand and foot, sad to say.  They'll up and leave as soon as someone dangles a bigger carrot.

But really, if you're having problems with that hire kiddies fresh from EVE University.  Propose that everyone only flies with PvP fitted interceptors and friggies.  Once you know how to pvp in a friggy, the rest kinda falls together.

Being a leader isn't important, your first follower is important.  Treat all your minions with respect and others will follow.  Theoretically anyways. :/

But if you are an AngelSlut rper, should hook up with us SanshaScums for some fun, eh?

[Saede Riordan]

But if you are an AngelSlut rper, should hook up with us SanshaScums for some fun, eh?

Izzy, if I could come up with a remotely legitimate RP reason to fly with you guys and not shoot you, I would

Cassie, I have no elevator pitch, I can't have anything that makes me special because nothing does make me special. I can go on and on about what WILL make me special and what WILL make me awesome, but that's only if people actually join, and if they will only join if there is already something special...well, bit of a catch 22 there.

[Z.Sinraali]

Cassie, I have no elevator pitch, I can't have anything that makes me special because nothing does make me special. I can go on and on about what WILL make me special and what WILL make me awesome, but that's only if people actually join, and if they will only join if there is already something special...well, bit of a catch 22 there.

Special doesn't have to be unique, or big and flashy. It just means what makes your corp distinctively your corp. Take Ataraxia Pharmacies, as an example. We have 0% tax. Freedom to conduct your operations! We focus on pharmaceuticals, life support, and similar industrial ventures. Expertise to help you get off the ground! We maintain neutrality between the big factions, as best we can. Low chance of being wardecced!

[IzzyChan]

But if you are an AngelSlut rper, should hook up with us SanshaScums for some fun, eh?

Izzy, if I could come up with a remotely legitimate RP reason to fly with you guys and not shoot you, I would

I want you to shoot at us. D:

[Kazzzi]

Nikita, the corp I'm in has recruited lotsa newer players (with advertisements of bacon and heavy metal). I solved a problem similar to yours by using my patented simple 3 step process:

Step 1: Hand each newbie a T1 frig or cruiser.

Step 2: Take the newbies on a roam.

Step 3: When a newbie screws up, make him take a drink.

I guarantee results in as little as 1 week or your money back.

[Aria Jenneth]

Nikita, the corp I'm in has recruited lotsa newer players (with advertisements of bacon and heavy metal). I solved a problem similar to yours by using my patented simple 3 step process:

Step 1: Hand each newbie a T1 frig or cruiser.

Step 2: Take the newbies on a roam.

Step 3: When a newbie screws up, make him take a drink.

I guarantee results in as little as 1 week or your money back.

HA!

Actually, that sounds workable.

The "We KEEL YOU!" drinking game.

[Morwen Lagann]

Nikita, the corp I'm in has recruited lotsa newer players (with advertisements of bacon and heavy metal). I solved a problem similar to yours by using my patented simple 3 step process:

Step 1: Hand each newbie a T1 frig or cruiser.

Step 2: Take the newbies on a roam.

Step 3: When a newbie screws up, make him take a drink.

I guarantee results in as little as 1 week or your money back.

I smell a new Veto gag roam...