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Author Topic: So...Trump won.  (Read 305 times)

Vikarion

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So...Trump won.
« on: 14 Nov 2016, 01:54 »

And now we have our own Brexit.

Wheeeeee...eee...ee...e...?

At least we aren't at war with Russia now?

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: 14 Nov 2016, 09:50 by Vikarion »
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Nis

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #1 on: 14 Nov 2016, 11:19 »

I was not able to vote, which only upsets me in the case of a few state propositions which went the 'wrong' way.

With regard to the presidency, we seem to have traded a certainty of continued neoliberalism for an uncertainty of clown car domestic policy. I wouldn't have voted for either option, not that it would have mattered in California. On one hand, the immediate death of the TPP is good news, but the Cabinet appointments and Congressional results likely will not lead to positive outcomes on 'my' issues. For this reason I will now be making a monthly donation to Natural Resources Defense Council.

Sometimes things have to get worse in order to get better. My hope is that this is the case, that people pay attention, pull together and resist unjust governance. Social media would tell me this is white cismale privilege talking. To that I say, 'okay.'

Perhaps we can see a real change here, one for the better, but I am disposed to neither optimism nor pessimism just yet.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #2 on: 14 Nov 2016, 13:42 »

Thoughts?

Politicians brought this upon themselves.

For far too long, whenever someone brings up a point, the opposing party dismisses it out of hand, instead of refuting it with evidence.

Social media and soundbites don't help either. Instead of a coherent argument that might change someone's mind, you get twitter-friendly statements that re-affirm people's preconceptions.

Same with Brexit, and the fallout from it.
Instead of trying to understand why people voted the way they did, a large number of people have simply dismissed them. Racists voted for Brexit, they claim. Instead of accepting that people have concerns about various aspects of the communities in which they live, they dismiss all those people as xenophobes.

Trump voters are all racist, sexist, members of the KKK, say some people, instead of accepting that large numbers of people do not see the benefits to them, of an economic system which requires people to work long hours in unfulfilling jobs that only barely cover living expenses, while corporations get ever-richer, so they voted for someone who convinced them they had an idea to change things.

The American Dream - that if you work hard, you can provide a good standard of living for you and your family. The reality, that you work as hard as you can, and it's just not good enough to get anywhere in life, is very unappealing, and it should not be a surprise that people voted for someone who promises that the American Dream is achievable.

Comparison: In the UK, right now, for many people the reality is this:
Work long hours, possibly in more than one job, and spend it all on mortgage or rent and other expenses, while being bombarded by messages that people "must do more to save for their retirement", and the guarantee that if you do own your house, in your old age, you will not be able to leave it to your children, it must be sold, to pay your nursing home fees. It really makes you question why you should bother at all, when, if you are out of work, you get benefits, and if you don't own a house, you get free nursing home care.

That's why people voted for Brexit, and why they voted for Trump. Because neoliberalism doesn't offer anything to the majority of people, only to the wealthy.

But no, just call them all racists, it's too difficult to address their concerns. Just dismiss them as the racist mumblings of the far-right, instead of the concerns of the demotivated middle.


Also, apparently, this is the first time since 1928, that there is a Republican President, and a Republican majority in both Houses.
Thing is though, what happened in 1929 ? The Great Depression, and then the subsequent rise of Fascism.
If there's another great depression in 2017, then...  :ugh:
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Vikarion

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #3 on: 15 Nov 2016, 00:50 »

Louella, that was simply excellent. I could not have captured my own feelings better, I think.
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Utari Onzo

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #4 on: 15 Nov 2016, 09:26 »

One of the greatest downfalls of this campaign has been the over importance placed on identity politics. The vast majority of people just do not have the time, patience or luxury of wealth to spent giving a damn about identity.

As a working class lad I've historically been a Labour supporter in the UK and likely would have been a Dem supporter in the US, but honestly both candidates were awful. The left in the western world needs to go back and convince its grassroots blue collar support that they do care about the real issues, like economic issues, the decline of the middle class etc. Instead of asking "how did Trump win, he's such a [insert here]" we (or our elite overlords) need to go back and ask why did Clinton lose to someone like that.

Would it kill my leftist elite to stop lecturing down to me too?
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Lunarisse Aspenstar

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #5 on: 15 Nov 2016, 14:50 »

One of the greatest downfalls of this campaign has been the over importance placed on identity politics. The vast majority of people just do not have the time, patience or luxury of wealth to spent giving a damn about identity.

As a working class lad I've historically been a Labour supporter in the UK and likely would have been a Dem supporter in the US, but honestly both candidates were awful. The left in the western world needs to go back and convince its grassroots blue collar support that they do care about the real issues, like economic issues, the decline of the middle class etc. Instead of asking "how did Trump win, he's such a [insert here]" we (or our elite overlords) need to go back and ask why did Clinton lose to someone like that.

Would it kill my leftist elite to stop lecturing down to me too?

This.  And what Louella said.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #6 on: 16 Nov 2016, 10:28 »

I kept thinking of what to say in this thread, but Louella pretty much said everything I'd have wanted to say, in a very concise way. So +1
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Karmilla Strife

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #7 on: 17 Nov 2016, 08:02 »

Pretty good observations, but Louella, I think there was a Republican president and majority in both legislative branches from 2002-2006.
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Vikarion

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #8 on: 17 Nov 2016, 11:12 »

Pretty good observations, but Louella, I think there was a Republican president and majority in both legislative branches from 2002-2006.

Yes, but Republicans hold 33 governorships, if I recall correctly, and 67 of 98 state houses.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #9 on: 17 Nov 2016, 12:05 »

Pretty good observations, but Louella, I think there was a Republican president and majority in both legislative branches from 2002-2006.

That's what the news on the radio said though, that this is the first time since 1928, that there was a Republican President, along with control of Senate and congress. Maybe there was something else as well that I don't remember ?
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Lunarisse Aspenstar

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #10 on: 17 Nov 2016, 14:15 »

Here's a handy chart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Presidents_and_control_of_Congress

1928 was one of the last times for republicans, but Bush did have a friendly congress for 4 and 1/2 years and Eisenhower for 2 years
« Last Edit: 17 Nov 2016, 14:17 by Lunarisse Aspenstar »
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Elmund Egivand

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #11 on: 18 Nov 2016, 13:48 »

I'm more worried about how Trump will handle diplomacy. China's rattling her sabers, the Philippine is shitting all over the United States, Russia's watching with some uncomfortable amounts of interest, Singapore's kind of struggling with dealing with both the East and the West, Middle East is still going to hell, etc. etc. I hope Trump doesn't accidentally set off a bunch of powder kegs when he took the office.
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: So...Trump won.
« Reply #12 on: 19 Nov 2016, 17:53 »

That's why people voted for Brexit, and why they voted for Trump. Because neoliberalism doesn't offer anything to the majority of people, only to the wealthy.

But no, just call them all racists, it's too difficult to address their concerns. Just dismiss them as the racist mumblings of the far-right, instead of the concerns of the demotivated middle.

This. Also, what Utari said.

Oh and as a European I still can't see how neo-liberal politics qualifies as being on the 'left'.

Our democractic republics are slowly dismantled and turned into oligarchies by neo-liberal policies, the populace gets more and more exploited. No wonder there's an equal and opposite reaction to that.

As it happens so often, it's an overreaction. But what else to expect, if there's no room left for a more prudent reaction?
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